[OFFICIAL] Windows 10 Insider Program

[patseguin Global Moderator]

I'm not a pirate so I don't really care. However, can you post a link to an officially article which refutes what I have read (and posted)?

[patseguin Global Moderator]

First of all, I'm in no way angry, and certainly not self-righteous.  You do realize that in fact your attitude is more that way than mine, right?

So, if you had a Technet subscription (I did too, actually), you have all this software needed to do a proper upgrade to Windows 10.  Actually, even though I can't download from them, they do update license keys for Windows. I got keys for 8, 8.1 and 10 TP from my Technet Product keys page.

Secondly, they are not making Windows 10 available to pirates.

I agree, it would be great to allow Windows 7/8 users to generate a new key and get an ISO to download for Windows 10.  But that's probably not going to happen. 

 

As far as Window

Sorry, I probably make assumptions based on the tone of posts. People seem to be getting quite snobby with their remarks on certain subjects. I have a fully legal way to upgrade to Windows 10. I just had hoped they would have a better option for those of us who used the TP.

 

I am interested in an official citation that refutes the articles I've read on unlicensed versions being allowed to upgrade. not because I'm a pirate, but because I've read it more than one place, including Neowin.

 

EDIT: Off my topic. What is the deal with Cortana. I was happy that build 10147 had it working again and used it several times. Now just total out of the blue, it won't respond to my voice. I made sure "Hey, Cortana" is still turned on and nothing changed. I guess it's just still buggy in this beta.

[Preppy Veteran]

What good is the program, if Microsoft is going to ignore top feedback?

Brandon used to work at MS and always interacted here excellently in regards to various extents with feedback.  I don't have his kind of social media skills, but I have pointed out (way) previously that I do work there.  Feedback hasn't been ignored: it's discussed regularly and helps inform and guide decisions where possible.

 

Part of your expressed concerns presumes that "not delivering the feature I request right now" is equivalent to "ignoring feedback".  I don't feel that that's a fair nor accurate equivalency.  If you get hung up on that kind of thing, you may find that most beta programs will be needlessly frustrating.  I'd suspect that for the most part the teams involved have a lot of stuff scheduled each release, and that excellent suggestions that don't have time allocated to handle them aren't the kind of thing that it's actually possible just throw onto the schedule without killing the devs involved.  Time is finite: taking time to account for feedback X probably means that area Y (or developer Z's life) is going to suffer.  I think once you understand that the schedule is usually fairly full to start with and that time is finite, it's easier to come to grips with the notion that larger pieces of feedback may need significant time to happen, if they happen at all.  Delivering awesome software excellently for everyone is a hard challenge.  There's always room to grow and improve.

[Ian S.]

What I don't understand is leaving us tablet users in the cold. I mean no new features? Not even the advanced grid from windows phone?

I have to say, the round user circles have grown on me. Especially due to the way they roll in on the new people love tile. Wish the app itself was smoother though. And how about the animations supposed to be in the photos app? Shown back in January.

What I don't understand is leaving us tablet users in the cold. I mean no new features? Not even the advanced grid from windows phone?

I have to say, the round user circles have grown on me. Especially due to the way they roll in on the new people love tile. Wish the app itself was smoother though. And how about the animations supposed to be in the photos app? Shown back in January?

[Dot Matrix]

Brandon used to work at MS and always interacted here excellently in regards to various extents with feedback.  I don't have his kind of social media skills, but I have pointed out (way) previously that I do work there.  Feedback hasn't been ignored: it's discussed regularly and helps inform and guide decisions where possible.

 

Part of your expressed concerns presumes that "not delivering the feature I request right now" is equivalent to "ignoring feedback".  I don't feel that that's a fair nor accurate equivalency.  If you get hung up on that kind of thing, you may find that most beta programs will be needlessly frustrating.  I'd suspect that for the most part the teams involved have a lot of stuff scheduled each release, and that excellent suggestions that don't have time allocated to handle them aren't the kind of thing that it's actually possible just throw onto the schedule without killing the devs involved.  Time is finite: taking time to account for feedback X probably means that area Y (or developer Z's life) is going to suffer.  I think once you understand that the schedule is usually fairly full to start with and that time is finite, it's easier to come to grips with the notion that larger pieces of feedback may need significant time to happen, if they happen at all.  Delivering awesome software excellently for everyone is a hard challenge.  There's always room to grow and improve.

I am well aware that not everything is possible at once, or immediately, but most of this feedback has been there from the beginning of the Windows 10 development cycle. That's what concerns me. Worse, I have reached out via different means of communication with various different peoples with the matter, and have been ignored each time.

 

Also, we've yet to hear anything about the supposed update for Windows RT devices. Microsoft's silence is concerning at best.

[George P Global Moderator]

Tablet users aren't being left in the cold, I don't get where this is coming from.  The newest leaked build video shows more tweaks to tablet mode yet again, build 10154 uses the same exact snap mode from 8.1 now in tablet mode, not the desktop version of snap.   So that's yet another thing people wanted via the feedback app and here it is.  Also the start screen is now left aligned and not centered, at least in the videos of 10154 I've seen, unlike before where the tiles would be centered and waste space.  This alignment matches that of 8.x as well,  the only things left, that really don't make that big of a difference to most I bet, is a full screen all apps listing, which would probably come in a future update and not at RTM, no biggy though.  And auto-hiding the taskbar in tablet mode, another thing I expect to come.

 

As far as using it in tablet mode though, I see no issues with it at all.

[trek]

tl,dr.

 

 

Awesome. Suffice it to say if he hates it, Windows 10 is going to be great.

[Dot Matrix]

Tablet users aren't being left in the cold, I don't get where this is coming from.  The newest leaked build video shows more tweaks to tablet mode yet again, build 10154 uses the same exact snap mode from 8.1 now in tablet mode, not the desktop version of snap.   So that's yet another thing people wanted via the feedback app and here it is.  Also the start screen is now left aligned and not centered, at least in the videos of 10154 I've seen, unlike before where the tiles would be centered and waste space.  This alignment matches that of 8.x as well,  the only things left, that really don't make that big of a difference to most I bet, is a full screen all apps listing, which would probably come in a future update and not at RTM, no biggy though.  And auto-hiding the taskbar in tablet mode, another thing I expect to come.

 

As far as using it in tablet mode though, I see no issues with it at all.

That's great! It would be nice if a new build was pushed to Insiders so we can test it out. But that still doesn't solve the issue of Microsoft ignoring the superior full screen UX on tablets. OneNote users are still asking for the Radial Menu, and a real tablet UX like in 8.1. Edge users are also wanting a full screen UX like in 8.1, as well.  

Awesome. Suffice it to say if he hates it, Windows 10 is going to be great.

I'm not the only one hating it. If you didn't "tl;dr", you would see that.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

WinBeta posted a video of build 10154:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph2VrYb0wek

 

Windows 10 tablet mode looks like it's working well to me. As for the universal apps in Windows 10, they're a massive improvement over the mostly featureless Windows 8.x modern UI apps. So.. I honestly don't understand Dot Matrix's problem.

[trek]

 

I'm not the only one hating it. If you didn't "tl;dr", you would see that.

There are more people liking the changes than disliking. The opposite was true for win 8. Sucks to be on the flipside hey?

[trek]

WinBeta posted a video of build 10154:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph2VrYb0wek

 

Windows 10 tablet mode looks like it's working well to me. As for the universal apps in Windows 10, they're a massive improvement over the mostly featureless Windows 8.x modern UI apps. So.. I honestly don't understand Dot Matrix's problem.

That looks great. Can't wait to put it on my surface pro 3

[Stoffel]

That's great! It would be nice if a new build was pushed to Insiders so we can test it out. But that still doesn't solve the issue of Microsoft ignoring the superior full screen UX on tablets. OneNote users are still asking for the Radial Menu, and a real tablet UX like in 8.1. Edge users are also wanting a full screen UX like in 8.1, as well.  

 

I'm one of those not really happy with the way Edge looks. Takes way to much space on the screen. Add the task bar to it and you almost loose 20% of your screen

 

I also miss the sweeping in from the left to change apps.

 

Most of the other stuff I can learn to deal with I guess. But yeah, they ruined the tablet side in Win 10 compared to Win 8.1

[George P Global Moderator]

A tablet specific version of edge is coming, look at the newest mobile preview for example, they'll work on a tablet specific mode in time, right now there's other important things that edge needs to do, UI has to take a backseat for a bit.

 

I expect to see a option for it, the desktop mode, to allow you to move the bar to the bottom, since they already moved it to the bottom on mobile, as per feedback again, and people say they don't listen, come on.   There's a difference between not listening and not making user requested changes right away, it's so "me me me" and "right now now now" that it's crazy.  There's so much work that has to go on, it's not a simple flip of a switch or a change of one line of code you know?  Just wait, users should've expected that not everything was going to make it into the first version of 10, that's why we're going to get constant updates that will keep adding more.

[Stoffel]

WinBeta posted a video of build 10154:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph2VrYb0wek

 

Windows 10 tablet mode looks like it's working well to me. As for the universal apps in Windows 10, they're a massive improvement over the mostly featureless Windows 8.x modern UI apps. So.. I honestly don't understand Dot Matrix's problem.

 

How can you from that short video conclude that tablet mode works fine and Dot is just making it up?

Not saying it's horrible or anything, but that doesn't show you at all how good/bad tablet mode is. Lots of the little nice swipes and edge UI's are all gone. They might not work great with a mouse but they could have left them in for tablet mode

[Active.]

Is there any way to remove the 'Show Desktop' button from the far right of the task bar?

[Stoffel]

A tablet specific version of edge is coming, look at the newest mobile preview for example, they'll work on a tablet specific mode in time, right now there's other important things that edge needs to do, UI has to take a backseat for a bit.

 

I expect to see a option for it, the desktop mode, to allow you to move the bar to the bottom, since they already moved it to the bottom on mobile, as per feedback again, and people say they don't listen, come on.   There's a difference between not listening and not making user requested changes right away, it's so "me me me" and "right now now now" that it's crazy.  There's so much work that has to go on, it's not a simple flip of a switch or a change of one line of code you know?  Just wait, users should've expected that not everything was going to make it into the first version of 10, that's why we're going to get constant updates that will keep adding more.

 

You know what they could have done better. Maybe have some feedback from MS on requests with over 500 or 1000 up votes.

Just to let us know how they feel about certain requests. That way people know if things will come in later versions or MS doesn't feel that point important enough.

 

That would have solved a lot I think, but we all know how bad MS is at communication with it's customers.

[George P Global Moderator]

How can you from that short video conclude that tablet mode works fine and Dot is just making it up?

Not saying it's horrible or anything, but that doesn't show you at all how good/bad tablet mode is. Lots of the little nice swipes and edge UI's are all gone. They might not work great with a mouse but they could have left them in for tablet mode

 

Which swipes are gone though?  I don't think any are, swiping from the top down still closes apps, swiping from the left brings up a task switcher, swiping from the right brings up the new action center with the quick action buttons that replace the ones in the charms menu (which, let's be perfectly honest here, no one used or liked, those that did were in the minority of the minority).  Swiping up from the bottom will also bring up any app bars for older 8.x style apps.  So really, what edge swiping gestures are gone?  In fact, 10 adds even more, multi-fingered gestures that 8.x never had, let's not forget about those.

You know what they could have done better. Maybe have some feedback from MS on requests with over 500 or 1000 up votes.

Just to let us know how they feel about certain requests. That way people know if things will come in later versions or MS doesn't feel that point important enough.

 

That would have solved a lot I think, but we all know how bad MS is at communication with it's customers.

 

They do that, maybe not through the feedback app for the OS, which I agree should have some sort of status on things, but for other things they do, like with Edge and feature requests, the Edge teams listing shows you what's being worked on, what's under consideration and what's not etc.

 

There's so much feedback I don't think they have the time to go in and reply to it all, maybe post RTM they'll refine the process, we'll have to wait and see.

[Dot Matrix]

A tablet specific version of edge is coming, look at the newest mobile preview for example, they'll work on a tablet specific mode in time, right now there's other important things that edge needs to do, UI has to take a backseat for a bit.

 

I expect to see a option for it, the desktop mode, to allow you to move the bar to the bottom, since they already moved it to the bottom on mobile, as per feedback again, and people say they don't listen, come on.   There's a difference between not listening and not making user requested changes right away, it's so "me me me" and "right now now now" that it's crazy.  There's so much work that has to go on, it's not a simple flip of a switch or a change of one line of code you know?  Just wait, users should've expected that not everything was going to make it into the first version of 10, that's why we're going to get constant updates that will keep adding more.

 That's great that they've moved it to the bottom. That's where it should be on tablets.

[Stoffel]

Which swipes are gone though?  I don't think any are, swiping from the top down still closes apps, swiping from the left brings up a task switcher, swiping from the right brings up the new action center with the quick action buttons that replace the ones in the charms menu (which, let's be perfectly honest here, no one used or liked, those that did were in the minority of the minority).  Swiping up from the bottom will also bring up any app bars for older 8.x style apps.  So really, what edge swiping gestures are gone?  In fact, 10 adds even more, multi-fingered gestures that 8.x never had, let's not forget about those.

 

I liked switching apps better before with the little swipe from the left. They could have left that one and swapped the funny left then back right to get to the full task switcher they have now

Swiping up to get to All apps was also very nice.

 

Swiping left/right on a page in Edge to go to the previous/next page 

 

See some of them are missing Ones I use on a daily basis

[trek]

I liked switching apps better before with the little swipe from the left. They could have left that one and swapped the funny left then back right to get to the full task switcher they have now

Swiping up to get to All apps was also very nice.

 

Swiping left/right on a page in Edge to go to the previous/next page 

 

See some of them are missing Ones I use on a daily basis

 

You might get the left side swipe to switch apps when they add the option to autohide the taskbar. Right now it is redundant as you just have to poke the right icon at the bottom lol.

[George P Global Moderator]

I liked switching apps better before with the little swipe from the left. They could have left that one and swapped the funny left then back right to get to the full task switcher they have now

Swiping up to get to All apps was also very nice.

 

Swiping left/right on a page in Edge to go to the previous/next page 

 

See some of them are missing Ones I use on a daily basis

 

The swiping in Edge that IE had should come back, at some point, I don't expect them to leave it out, it's just low on the list of features to add.  I think it's more important to them to work out rendering bugs and so on, with this first RTM release and then add more features.

 

All apps is now just a button press though, with the new icon on the screen, which is much like pressing the arrow button.  Sure the swipe is gone but you can hit the all apps button just as easily with your left thumb, it isn't harder or more work IMO.

[indospot Veteran]

I liked switching apps better before with the little swipe from the left. They could have left that one and swapped the funny left then back right to get to the full task switcher they have now

Swiping up to get to All apps was also very nice.

 

Swiping left/right on a page in Edge to go to the previous/next page 

 

See some of them are missing Ones I use on a daily basis

 

I for one absolutely hated swiping from the left to get another app. I always had to make myself remember to swipe back to the left to actually see all the open apps.

[HawkMan]

Well, you should do your research before typing an angry self righteous post. Microsoft IS making Windows 10 available to "unlicensed" copies in an effort to get it onto as many machines as possible.

 

http://www.cnet.com/news/windows-10-launches-this-summer-targets-current-pirates-with-free-update/

?

 

Old article based on faulty assumptions. all the tech sites wrote that that day, then the next day everyone had to write corrections that MS was not giving windows to pirates. Don't trust everything on the internet.

 

Here's an article from 2 days later from the same least credible tech site on the net.

 

http://www.cnet.com/news/windows-10-pirated-upgrades-will-still-be-considered-pirated/

 

Thurrot, slightly less less credible.

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/2190/sorry-microsoft-is-not-giving-free-windows-10-to-pirates

[Kyang]

I for one absolutely hated swiping from the left to get another app. I always had to make myself remember to swipe back to the left to actually see all the open apps.

 

That was an option.  The setting was either show all the running apps, or switch immediately.  The latter is the one you hate, but the former didn't require you to swipe back.

[HawkMan]

WinBeta posted a video of build 10154:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph2VrYb0wek

 

Windows 10 tablet mode looks like it's working well to me. As for the universal apps in Windows 10, they're a massive improvement over the mostly featureless Windows 8.x modern UI apps. So.. I honestly don't understand Dot Matrix's problem.

 

Still want at least 3 things

1: quick task switcher when swiping.

2: back and forward swipe gestures in edge

3: and possibly most importantly they need to fix the keyboard so what it ACTUALLY resized the desktop/app. so that for example on neowin which has a very small footer, the keyboard doesn't go ontop of the browser and make it impossible to see what I'm writing.