birdie Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 It's weird that you haven't posted the news about this, but WZor has already leaked the date of Windows 10 RTM sign off. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariusbb Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I have a specific question. There is a bug that has made revert to Windows 8.1 and this is the IPV4 settings for VPN connections. I want to edit them in order to change the default gateway. Sometimes I want to connect over VPN to work and use my internet connection for non-internal sites and other times I want to go through the work network. If you go to the settings of a VPN connection you can not click the properties button. Up until ~10500 builds you would get a message that these settings were being modified somewhere else. With the latest public build (10162) you don't get that window but you can't click on the Properties button. The issue has been reported and upvoted but still the bug is still there. So it makes me wonder if they would RTM a build with known issues or they will fix them. This is not like some incompatibility. It is basic OS stuff... Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596914774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+InsaneNutter MVC Posted July 6, 2015 MVC Share Posted July 6, 2015 Unfortunately I'd imagine so as Windows 10 is expected to receive constant updates. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596914782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I was thinking probably next week given the state of Edge (I know it's an app but IIRC it has never received an update from the store). Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596914802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariusbb Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 If the idea is constant updates they can just sign off on 28-July. They need to provide an RTM with at least known bugs squashed. I understand that we are moving away from the "typical" release cycles of Windows - so maybe they push it back close to 29 July... Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596914816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted July 6, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 RTM is more like, pick one build and stay there, and service it like normal. Only people that stay in the insider preview will see a new build, maybe not till September or something though, while everyone else gets 1017xx or w/e it will be, either on the 29th or August 4th or however the rollout takes place, they'll keep patching things right from July 30th, it's not like they're calling it a day and going on vacation. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596914966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted July 6, 2015 Veteran Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yeah, RTM build goes off to the presses, they keep working on it until the release date so you get patches as soon as you install it. Then they keep patching it for the life of the product. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xendrome Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 WZor is wrong about 50% of the stuff he posts. That's just a screenshot he took of 10163 with the calendar open and typing a made up entry into it. I could have done the same thing. Time will tell. Elliot B. 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted July 6, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 WZor is wrong about 50% of the stuff he posts. That's just a screenshot he took of 10163 with the calendar open and typing a made up entry into it. I could have done the same thing. Time will tell. Yeah, people think it'll be soon because they have to get copies out to OEMs or w/e, like they fly out gold master DVD/CDs anymore, pfft. They'll just get a final OEM build off of MS's servers when the time comes, and keep getting newer version with any patches already added into them from then on. The install process also checks and installs any updates out there to, unless you tell it not to or there's no internet connection. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mram Subscriber² Posted July 6, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted July 6, 2015 It is an interesting topic. Has Microsoft really detailed what exactly the servicing strategy will be for Windows 10? Are we expecting new builds or service packs? Will Edge be updated as an app or is this considered a core component? What about other potential core updates? I mean, everyone expects that Windows will constantly be updated, but if we are to believe that in 2-6 months we'll just get a new "slow ring" build released to the public, like a service pack, then that's no big deal in my book. But do we have any guidance here? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 They have to treat Edge as an updatable app or it will never catch up to the other browsers out there. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted July 6, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 It is an interesting topic. Has Microsoft really detailed what exactly the servicing strategy will be for Windows 10? Are we expecting new builds or service packs? Will Edge be updated as an app or is this considered a core component? What about other potential core updates? I mean, everyone expects that Windows will constantly be updated, but if we are to believe that in 2-6 months we'll just get a new "slow ring" build released to the public, like a service pack, then that's no big deal in my book. But do we have any guidance here? Edge will be an app updated through the store along with any other new apps, they're all store apps now. The servicing will be much the same, patches each month and then a big "service pack" in the fall. Though this time it won't be like a SP, I think we're going to get a new build so they can push out the new features they've added. The fall update will be the one we all look for to see what we can expect and if how they even market/name it, just fall update or are they actually going to finally use that 2nd digit in the version number and treat it as a 10.1.xxxxx release? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdsams Veteran Posted July 6, 2015 Veteran Share Posted July 6, 2015 This is correct, July 9th is the target. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mram Subscriber² Posted July 6, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted July 6, 2015 Edge will be an app updated through the store along with any other new apps, they're all store apps now. The servicing will be much the same, patches each month and then a big "service pack" in the fall. Though this time it won't be like a SP, I think we're going to get a new build so they can push out the new features they've added. The fall update will be the one we all look for to see what we can expect and if how they even market/name it, just fall update or are they actually going to finally use that 2nd digit in the version number and treat it as a 10.1.xxxxx release? I'm looking for specific references here. Everyone presumes that MS will push out patches, but generally speaking they only do security updates monthly, then large service packs VERY rarely. If they are going to a more rapid release model where the core of the OS gets refreshed with new builds more rapidly (think like the fast/slow rings now), I'd love to see public released guidance saying so. As far as the apps are concerned, I totally get those being refreshed adhoc. Speaking of app udpates, are there any ways to easily see what has been updated - like "what's new" - when you get updates from the store? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-byte Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 So it makes me wonder if they would RTM a build with known issues or they will fix them. This is not like some incompatibility. It is basic OS stuff... Of course they will. All software have bugs at release. That is why there are patches. If not software will never be released. You always balance out what you can leave in and what you need to fix. And no, this is not basic OS stuff. Far from a show stopper. For most users this is not something you usually do. It is really strange that in most threads people come in an post issues about bugs. This is not a bug thread. It is about the RTM itself. Not targeted towards you only, arisbb. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xendrome Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I'm looking for specific references here. Everyone presumes that MS will push out patches, but generally speaking they only do security updates monthly, then large service packs VERY rarely. If they are going to a more rapid release model where the core of the OS gets refreshed with new builds more rapidly (think like the fast/slow rings now), I'd love to see public released guidance saying so. https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/597991090378113025 Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilo Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 This actually makes sense. Generally, RTM is targeted for sign off 2-3 weeks before the release date as they need to be able to get it out to everyone. Those 2-3 weeks are then spent fixing as much as possible for release day patches. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
macoman Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 How far is Microsoft of signing off the RTM for Windows 10 mobile? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted July 6, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 How far is Microsoft of signing off the RTM for Windows 10 mobile? I don't think anyone expects mobile to RTM before October, heck, late September at best I'd say. We won't see it hit GA and start going out to 8.1 phones till November I bet. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I hope that this date is just for OEMs, while the downloadable build will be updated right up to release to eliminate as many bugs as possible. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mram Subscriber² Posted July 6, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted July 6, 2015 https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/597991090378113025 That just says "Windows as a Service" which in turn isn't defined at all. If you search for the actual meaning of it, it's shrouded in mystery. Sure they'll keep it up to date, but how? Details are lacking. For all we know, they'll keep doing service packs instead of builds like we've seen in the insider program. That pretty much speaks to the problems people have with the July 9 signoff date. I don't have a problem with that date, provided there is an update plan. As of right now, the only updates Microsoft does are security updates on core OS components. So how exactly would they remediate a network stack problem between July 9 and July 29? Most companies right now test things based upon a solid platform delivery, so the idea of constantly in-flux OS components is scary. And there are a lot of people who say that signing off on a final July 9 GM release of Windows 10 is also scary - but only if that's when they freeze updates to core OS components (not apps). I'm waiting to see what the actual plan is for these updates, but it seems like they're damned either way: If they push out fast/slow/stable builds, then corporations might have a fit at supportability concerns. If they don't, then the masses might have issues with broken software, slow releases, "not ready yet" concerns not answered. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightEco Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I would have thought that they would have rolled out the RTM candidate build to insiders before the sign-off. Nothing like a little bit of external testing to be sure. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
macoman Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I don't think anyone expects mobile to RTM before October, heck, late September at best I'd say. We won't see it hit GA and start going out to 8.1 phones till November I bet. I think Microsoft it's releasing the wrong version. RTM should be for the mobile OS and the Desktop for October. The mobile is more finished than the desktop version. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mram Subscriber² Posted July 6, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted July 6, 2015 Ok I found a few answers to my questions, will share here. On this page: http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/05/04/announcing-windows-update-for-business/ With Windows 10, Windows Update will also be regularly delivering ongoing Windows innovation in addition to security updates... What had me a bit confused at first is the mixture of home/consumer patching versus business and enterprise patching. Clearly for a business you need to deliver a consistent, supportable, sustained platform that doesn't auto-update itself and potentially break applications which are custom built for the last version. So that's why Microsoft built the "Windows Update for Business" model, to differentiate it from the normal "Windows Update" model which now adds (per the line above) "ongoing windows innovation" -- which I can only presume and reinterpret as updates, bug fixes, performance tuning, etc -- to the consumer and home models. So that's ultimately what changes with Windows 10 - patching of core OS will be in addition to the "patch tuesday" stuff. Can anyone confirm? It's hard to know how this will really look, as the only thing we've had thus far is just Insider builds, and that's a far cry from a "patch". Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596915470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariusbb Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Of course they will. All software have bugs at release. That is why there are patches. If not software will never be released. You always balance out what you can leave in and what you need to fix. And no, this is not basic OS stuff. Far from a show stopper. For most users this is not something you usually do. It is really strange that in most threads people come in an post issues about bugs. This is not a bug thread. It is about the RTM itself. Not targeted towards you only, arisbb. I agree with you x-byte. The point of my post is actually the quality of an RTM release when they have known bugs not squashed. I would expect all known bugs squashed and of course patch new ones. Remember they have already mentioned one month ago that they stop adding new things to close open bugs. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1262934-windows-10-rtm-sign-off-date-july-9-2015/#findComment-596918004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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