The Windows 10 Tablet Experience

[jakem1]

Look at all that space in the middle I can't touch at all, unless I move my hand. With Windows 8.1, that wasn't an issue, because it could slide left or right. Now, it slides up and down, forever out of reach.

 

Are you disabled?

[jakem1]

You certainly have no idea how to use a computer, having all that stuff open at once.

You're certainly making it hard to take anything you say seriously.

[adrynalyne]

I think we probably all agree but it was something the guy in the video - remember that this discussion has been framed by a video - used it to suggest that vertical scrolling was superior to horizontal scrolling. That stuff is simply a response to a silly assertion. It certainly isn't a big issue for me, especially as the tablet I am testing Windows 10 on lends itself more to one-handed use.

The argument about not being able to reach for things in the middle of the screen or having to move your hand from one of the sides to tap on something is a silly one to me.

 

You really have no concept of how anyone might use a tablet, do you? You certainly have no idea how to use a computer, having all that stuff open at once. Let me tell you, on the HP Z800 with dual Xeon (8-core), 64Gb of RAM and ridiculously expensive Quadro graphics I use at work, I close every other open application when I am rendering 3D. Even when I am working I would not have Outlook, a browser or anything else peripheral to the task at hand taking system resources from 3DS Max. I use my tablet or laptop for that stuff. You may find it convenient to have all that stuff open but, if you had to, you could do it on a less powerful tablet than mine, quite easily. I think the first time I used VM Ware was on a Pentium 166 with half a gig of RAM and it was perfectly usable.

 

When I use my tablet solo, it's because I am not in the office and have to make some adjustments or add something quickly. What makes my Thinkpad 8 awesome is the combination of its ability to run all that software, its extreme portability and Windows 8. Its portability means I take it with me all the time, whereas I used to only take my laptop if I knew I would need it. That it runs all my software usably means I don't need to take my laptop and Windows 8 means that it isn't just a one-trick pony. 

That is not using a computer.

 

That is suffering.  Development is not a single activity and never has been. So for you to compare it to a rendering is pretty dang foolish and speaks volumes of how little you know of development.  If I close everything on my computer and just sit patiently for each task, I would get fired.  On top of that, I wouldn't get anything done, because a lot of what I do requires multiple apps at the same time.  Example: VS runs the <whatever> in debugging mode to step through it, SQL Profiler catches the activity performed on the database, which in turn is actually handled by, you guessed it: SQL Server.

 

Email and other apps like that are the least of my worries and offloading those onto a tablet don't change the reality that it takes more than your tablet to do what I do.  I suppose I could remote in, but then I am not using the tablet for development, I am remoting in, and still not at full capacity because I am only using one screen and a tiny one at that. Not to mention I'd need a keyboard as well to get anything large done.  A soft keyboard for code, on an 8 or even 10 inch tablet, it is just not feasible.

 

This post makes it evident you're just trolling.

So your work flow is to close every app you're not directly using at that point? No wonder you can use a tablet, but for the rest of us, that's a stupid idea.

As a web dev I've got several things to concentrate on at one, four different browsers open, IDE, FTP client, Photoshop for sampling colours, gradients and fonts, Skype for client calls, Apache, a MySQL server, PHP module, not to mention piddly things like email client etc.

More to the point, you're actually contradicting yourself now.

It sounds like you and I are on the same page, just in different development camps.

 

Finally someone I can relate to on this particular topic

[cooky560 Veteran]

I've had to remove several posts from this thread, and hand out warnings, please stay on topic in a way that contributes to the thread or I am going to have to close it

[Dashel]

Ian W, on 17 Jul 2015 - 17:48, said:

I still do not understand why you are so antagonistic toward Windows 8 and / or users who like at least some of its features. Why does this constantly have to be an either-or proposition? If you do not like the close gesture, then do not use it. It really is that simple and it does not do you any harm if the feature remains for those who happen to use it.

Because, while fun and experimental, it's not practical.  It serves next to no purpose. Better to use the near gesture where it belongs, in the app switcher - the only place closing on a phone/tablet serves a purpose.  Its either/or because you argue for antagonistic choices tied to a depreciated paradigm.  It harms the fusion of tablet and Desktop.

 

Maybe if the most vocal supporters of Win8.0 were inline with that goal I would be more sympathetic.  As Motor and Dot repeatedly demonstrate, they aren't.  That's the antagonism.  One wants separate but equal, the other wants genocide.

[SionicIon]

I just find it amusing when developers try and suggest they need a grunty computer. As I alluded to, I worked very closely with the dev teams at Autodesk on a number of cutting edge products, over several years. I think I have a very clear idea of what it is a developer does and how much strain it puts on their hardware. Strangely enough, most of those guys didn't have a sense of humour, either (which I put down to them being French Canadian at the time).

 

Maybe for their first one but I always put those comments down to journalists having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find some negatives. To me it makes perfect sense and I wonder why you keep buying them. But you are contradicting yourself. You are saying Tablet mode exists because of Surface, then telling us that you'll never need it becaus eyou alway shave your keyboard attached. I'd also point out that my Yoga 2 tablet also comes with a bundled, custom keyboard and is just as much a two-in-one as any Surface.

 

Again, I think you have it backwards. It is Windows 8 that allows you to switch between desktop and touch use easily, because you don't hav eto do anything at all to facilitate it. e.g. If I am working with touch in W8, I don't see any scrollbars but as soon as I attach a mouse the scrollbars appear without any intervention from me.

 

I certainly don't see how you were forced into a certain environment with W8. Quite the opposite, you can use whatever part of it works best for you. e.g. Don't like reading PDF files full-screen in the Reader app, then install a desktop PDF reader and use that, just like you always did. Or if you don't like using the Modern UI version of IE, then you can choose to use the familiar desktop version. But now we have a choice of two browsers that are clearly both designed solely for desktop use, which isn't much of a choice at all. It is Windows 10 that forces you to choose between two modes, Windows 8 just lets you use whatever part of it suits you. That's what I love about W8 - it opens up new possibilities - but now W10 comes along and closes them off again. It's almost cruel.

 

If that's true, then you'd have been better off with an iPad. Those kinds of tablets are a complete and utter waste of money, in that your phone can do all the same things. It is the desktop that makes a Windows tablet useful and that's why Windows RT failed so dismally - it looked like Windows but was no more useful than iOS or Android. That's why I waited until someone made a Windows tablet that could run all my desktop software.

 

It sounds like you think the marketing dept should decide how I use my tablet. I'm sorry but that's patently absurd. My 8" tablet is perfectly capable of running the full Adobe Creative Suite and all my other professional software. That's why I have it. If it was just going to be a big phone that can't make calls and won't fit in my pocket, what would be the point of it? I already have a phone and with Continuum I will be able to hook it up to a larger screen so, just like my 8" tablet, it's physical size won't be a barrier to using it to the fullest. That one feature makes Windows Mobile on a tablet a ridiculous proposition, doesn't it?

 

You have it back-to-front again. The option is to make things larger but the default is for them to be normal size. Sure, Metro stuff is still a lot bigger than stuff on the desktop, that's why it works! As you point out, Windows 10 assumes that whatever scaling works with a mouse and keyboard will also work with touch which, yet again, is patently absurd. You are almost making my argument for me.

 

 

It's not that I'm used to it, it's that it works and Windwos 10 doesn't. You cannot possibly sit there and tell me that it makes sense to use the same size UI with a precision pointing tool like a mouse as it does with your big, fat fingers. That is the most stupid assertion I've read on this forum and if it is true, then we may as well start using Windows 7 on our tablets.

?

 

iOS has some of the best tablet apps hands down. It's why Android was never a good tablet OS, because most of their apps are scaled up to the tablet form factor. iOS apps for the iPads are much more than just scaled up. The flaws with iOS as a mobile OS for tablets is the lack of functionality for a bigger screen experience. A lot of that is being improved in iOS 9 though with Slide Over, Split View, and Picture in Picture.

 

But it seems like you are contradicting yourself because it seems like you're trying to say you can't get anything done on a tablet without needing the desktop.. This isn't what tablets were designed for. Windows 10 has the best implementation for it. It uses the same scaling it uses for modern Windows apps, for the desktop.

 

You're also trying to say having two separate environments is an easier transition between the two than switching on or off tablet mode. Also making a point that there is more choice in Windows 8 than Windows 10. Well that's actually your opinion and your perception of what feels like you have more choice.

 

Let me explain this. If I was using a desktop PDF reader, chances are I would eventually come across a PDF I might want to read laying down without the keyboard. Problem is, this PDF reader might not support the smooth scrolling and gestures that a modern PDF reader app would. It would be difficult to use, especially if my scaling was at 100% like yours is. This would mean I would have to remember the page number, switch to a modern app, find the PDF again, and scroll to the page I was at. If I wanted to sit back down with the keyboard out again, that would mean settling for using a big modern app I am unable to window now. It would be harder being productive if it was stuck in the touch environment and I couldn't make it part of the desktop environment, to be able to see it I would to flick between the two or snap the desktop side by side with the modern app which would limit my desktop space more than a window would.

 

Another example is the Modern IE app, I can open tabs with the full IE, but I can't keep the state of those pages. Modern IE runs in a different instance, it doesn't sync back to full IE what's going on, it can send links to full IE, but that's about it. This means if I'm sitting down at my desk working with 16 tabs open in full IE and I want to get up and continue reading a news article on my kitchen counter but be able to also switch between the other 15 tabs, I would have to be forced back to full IE in a desktop environment, unless I open each page in modern IE. But what happens if I had a shopping cart or a registration page open and it was asking if I wanted to resubmit the information, or what happens if I had a download in process? I can't transfer this kind of data to the modern IE, I have to make a choice deciding on which IE I want to use.

 

I could come up with many more examples, but the choice that exists in Windows 8 has it's advantages but most never understood how to handle the choices needed to be made. A forced upon start screen made it seem like you should use the modern apps, but the remaining legacy desktop still existed. If you didn't understand and wanted everything to be the same again, that meant learning how to get out of the start screen as quickly as possible everytime. If you were clever enough to understand the two environments (you had a tablet), you could make it work great to your liking, and that was even more great. But the majority of desktop users didn't like it, the majority of Windows RT users either wanted Windows RT dead because the store had no good apps or they wanted the desktop to die.

 

In Windows 10, the choice is great. Desktop users are presented with a mouse and keyboard first UI. Small tablets users will get Windows 10 Mobile for the best media consumption devices. Larger tablet users will usually have a two-in-one tablet and will run full Windows 10, they will get Continuum, which is the solution to all tablet users' problems.

 

Lets say I'm using Edge with 16 tabs open, I'm also downloading a large file, I want to be able to fold back my keyboard and sit at the kitchen counter, it's easy for Windows to now switch on tablet mode and make it easier for me to use the tablet for touch. No more title bars, except those with functionality in them like the tabs for Edge (the window controls on the right are gone), the taskbar becomes a lot more simpler, the Edge UI controls are already touchable. It's easy for me to check my download or switch to another tab, because I haven't switched apps. I can even use reading view to read the news article I'm reading.

 

But let's say I sit back down and tablet mode is turned back off. Edge is back in a window, I can move tabs out of the window to make a new window, I can open as many windows as I want, and if I switch tablet mode back on, I can snap the windows side by side.

 

How about I'm reading a PDF, now that modern apps run in windows and they work great for both mouse and keyboard and touch, I'm going to open a PDF with the default Modern app. That is Edge, this works great with my workflow since I don't have to use a separate app at all from what I was using. The same way I was using Edge before applies here too. Tablet mode works to keep me from having to choose a desktop app or a modern app so I can easily use Edge with touch or using a mouse and keyboard and have multiple windows open on a desktop.

 

Now another reason to use the same scaling is because small screens have always been low-resolution. Most PC OEMs have always sold laptops with a screen resolution of 1280x720 or 1366x768. When I first had my Surface RT, the screen resolution was in fact 1366x768. When I got my Surface Pro 1, the screen resolution was 1920x1080 for the same 10.6" display. I had the same screen real-estate as my Surface RT, but it was scaling. This ended up making the screen much more clearer and crisper. Phone screens are about to be 8K eventually, there is no way to see the UI without scaling up. Eventually larger displays will be the same way. You will HAVE to use scaling once displays become high resolution enough.

 

Microsoft's solution is for modern Windows apps to take over, and to replace legacy Win32 apps that aren't DPI aware. This is exactly why Microsoft is choosing to use the same scaling for Windows apps as the Win32 desktop scaling. Because on my Surface 3, I have a high resolution display and it's hard to use anything that isn't scaled up without being very close to the display. To make the display easier to read, they scale it up. They don't do it to make the touch targets better, they do it so you can see the screen at a decent distance. Your configuration doesn't make sense because you are disabling scaling for the advantage of having more screen real-estate on your desktop, but want scaling enabled for Windows apps so you can hit the touch targets better, which isn't even why scaling is used for Windows apps, it's used to make your screen viewable at a decent distance.

 

I suggest you look at the registry, there is a possibility you can change the scaling separately for each environment. It was done this way in Windows 8.1, I think the Settings app just calls both values at the same time, but under the hood it might still be there. Side effects are anything XAML related will be scaled up, which includes the whole taskbar. So you'll be left with a larger taskbar but a smaller desktop.

 

Honestly I would NOT want my desktop to be with no scaling, that's absolutely unusable. Your argument says you can deal with it and like more space on your desktop, but the majority of people would call it unusable. Sometimes I turn off scaling, but only for short periods of time and when I'm working really hard on something that requires a bunch of windows open and I got my bluetooth mouse connected.

 

Everyone else's arguments here are scaling isn't meant to be turned off and that's your fault. You can't deny that you're identifying a change in behavior as a problem because it doesn't work to your scenario, not everyone can handle a screen that high resolution with no scaling. It is most likely unhealthy too for your eyes to be focusing on such fine detail. It also isn't just a change in behavior for the heck of it, they are using XAML code for the taskbar, jumplists, context menus, etc. All of this is going XAML code, using two different scales for DPI would make some stuff large and some stuff small. This wouldn't work right so they worked out a new behavior that doesn't work the old way.

[Motor_Mouth]

Task switching in Windows 8 is poorly implemented. You and I might know about the ability to swipe in and out to see a list of running apps but it's not obvious and plenty of people don't know that they can do that. In the meantime, swiping from the left can seem random and confusing. Windows 10's solution is task switching done right and it's exactly what I've wanted for the last three years.

You have contradicted yourself - you first suggest that swiping is not an obvious thing and that most people wouldn't know about it, then you say it's better in Windows 10 when it requires another gesture that people are equally unlikely to know about. In fact, I'd suggest that if you grip your tablet in both hands, you are more likely to accidentally discover the app list in Windows 8 than you are in Windows 10. Mind you, double-tapping the home button in iOS is equally undiscoverable - I had to get a member of staff in an Apple Store to show me - so it's not a problem confined to Windows. At least the traditional, universal method, ALT+Tab, still works in Windows if you get really stuck.

 

But you have hit upon something here that I think lies at the core of many of the issues with Windows 8 and will equally impact Windows 10 - a lack of useful documentation. Help + Tips is OK for solving very specific problems but it is hard to learn about anything from it, the way you could from a printed or PDF manual. It's like when I buy a new car - I spend an entire evening reading the owner's manual fro cover to cover. If I didn't, dozens of potentially useful features would remain hidden from me. That was certainly the case when I first started use Windows Phone. It was more than a year before I discovered you could mute the ringer. Up until I discovered this, I had simply turned the volume down to zero. And it was only after reading about it on a forum like this that I learned you could swipe down from the top to reveal the row of icons across the top (signal strength, battery, etc.). Some features of my Zune HD even remained completely hidden from me for months that I would have found handy from day one. The biggest one, though, was that I only discovered that you could hit the WIN key and start typing to find applications in Windows 7 after I had moved to Windows 8, where I mistakenly thought it was a new feature of that version. It is a chronic issue that all of us, as users, seem to have allowed to happen. In reality, it is why I spend so much time on sites like this one - it is often the only way to learn how to get the most out of the things you use every day.

[Motor_Mouth]

iOS has some of the best tablet apps hands down...

But it seems like you are contradicting yourself because it seems like you're trying to say you can't get anything done on a tablet without needing the desktop.. This isn't what tablets were designed for. Windows 10 has the best implementation for it. It uses the same scaling it uses for modern Windows apps, for the desktop.

Who cares? I have little or no interest in tablet apps. I have all the software I need and I have spent between 10 and 20 years (and well over $10,000 in licenses) getting as good as I can possibly be with it. I am not about to throw that all away just so I can work on a tablet. That's the genius of Windows 8 - I can have it all on one device, I don't need to learn a bunch of tablet apps so I can use my tablet, I can leverage that 20 years of experience on whatever device I happen to have with me. No, I am not going to be able to model and rig a character or do a 30 second 3D commercial for the cinema on the tablet I have today but I can absolutely go in and adjust a model or a rig if I have to, or make a few changes to a 30 second ad at a client meeting. And in one or two generations' time, who knows? Maybe I will be able to do those things on a tablet and, a generation or two after that, even a phone. Windows 8 seemed ready for that, Windows 10 doesn't

 

I've always seen iPads and Android tablets as interim devices, much like a hybrid car. They are placeholders for a time when the technology is good enough that they will do what we want of them without the limitations they have today. OTOH, a Windows tablet is more like the Tesla Roadster - a great idea, and definitely the future, but the hardware is still not quite there yet to make it as good as it could be. Hopefully the next generation of tablets will be more like the Model S - ready for primetime with fewer compromises and limitations.

 

Anyway, I haven't said I can't get anything done without the desktop, just that I need it for some tasks. Apple and Google want you to think that a tablet is this and a workstation is that because that suits their businesses. Windows 8 blurred those lines, allowing you to use desktop software on a tablet and also to use tablet-like gestures on a big screen. It didn't say "this is a tablet, you must use it only for this and that and only in this way" and "this is a PC, you must use it only for this and that and only in this way". Instead, it said "if your laptop or all-in-one has a touchscreen, you might find it handy to use some of these tablet features on your PC" and "just because you only brought your tablet with you doesn't mean you can't use your desktop software to get real work done". Windows 8 empowers users to choose whichever tool they think will work best, in any situation. Windows 10 takes a big step back from that, forcing you to choose one way of working or the other. Worse than that, if you choose Tablet Mode you don't get anything that actually facilitates working with touch.

 

Seriously, how does forcing every window full-screen make it easier to work on a tablet? How does hiding things away inside multiple levels of menus in Tablet Mode make it easier to work on a tablet? How does keeping the same scaling for the precision of a mouse and the vagaries of big, fat fingers make it easier to work on a tablet? Isn't that what everyone hated about Windows 8 - that everything was too big for desktop use, just so it would be touch-friendly? So how can anyone expect to fix that just by making everything small and unfriendly for touch?

 

You're also trying to say having two separate environments is an easier transition between the two than switching on or off tablet mode. Also making a point that there is more choice in Windows 8 than Windows 10. Well that's actually your opinion and your perception of what feels like you have more choice.

It's not my opinion, these are verifiable facts. In Windows 8, I can have a mix of full-screen apps and a desktop with Windows applications in a split screen. Think of it as allowing any app to be "always on top". In Windows 10 I cannot do that, I must choose between one and the other. It limits everyone's choices compared to W8. Yes, I can snap apps on the desktop but that doesn't stop them from being covered by other windows. It is a big difference and it is there for everyone to see and verify for themselves. The only opinion involved is how much that matters to you. It matters enough to me that I won't be installing Windows 10 on my laptop, which is my main PC.

 

In W8 I know when something will close with a swipe and when I have to use the "X" button, because if I have to use the "X" button it is there where I can see it. If I don't have to use it, it is not there. It is a very obvious visual cue, along with the visibility of the taskbar and other obvious differences between modes, like chrome around the edges, etc. But in W10, the "X" button is always there, as is the unmaximise button even though it doesn't do anything (which makes W10 feel broken). The Taskbar is always there and the only visual cue I have is the back arrow in the Taskbar, which is only there in Tablet Mode. It requires a lot more effort and concentration to do something I do on W8 without having to think at all. As I said, two months of Windows 10 use and I still do it wrong on a daily basis, whereas I don't think I've done it wrong even once in nearly four years of Windows 8 use.

 

I'll also point out, for the fifth or sixth time, that there are two different environments in Windows 10. What else would you call Tablet Mode? So you cannot say that W8 has two separate environments and W10 doesn't. The difference is that the touch environment in W8 works, in W10 it doesn't.

 

Let me explain this. If I was using a desktop PDF reader, chances are I would eventually come across a PDF I might want to read laying down without the keyboard. Problem is, this PDF reader might not support the smooth scrolling and gestures that a modern PDF reader app would. It would be difficult to use, especially if my scaling was at 100% like yours is. This would mean I would have to remember the page number, switch to a modern app, find the PDF again, and scroll to the page I was at. If I wanted to sit back down with the keyboard out again, that would mean settling for using a big modern app I am unable to window now. It would be harder being productive if it was stuck in the touch environment and I couldn't make it part of the desktop environment, to be able to see it I would to flick between the two or snap the desktop side by side with the modern app which would limit my desktop space more than a window would.

I'm sorry but this is the most ridiculous argument you have yet made. All you are saying is that you don't need a desktop PDF reader in Windows 8, which I worked out more than three years ago. Here is a screenshot of a workflow I use when setting things up to go to the printer. By putting Reader into a split screen, I can move easily between applications, making adjustments and re-exporting to see how it will look for the printer when he gets hold of it. If I want one image bigger, all I have to do is slide the split one way or the other. The desktop application resizes it's GUI to fill it's split, like it would when adjusting it's window size, but Reader does it much better. Then, when I took a screenshot and opened Photoshop to export it, instead of Photoshop opening over the top of everything, it stayed on it's desktop side of the split, which was plenty for me to do what I needed to.

 

 

It's a workflow enabled by the Modern UI in Windows 8 that has advantages over working on the desktop. This particular workflow will still work in W10 but others that rely on a triple split will not. Again, this is a fact. You can have an opinion on how useful this is, that's fine, although you should give it a try before you decide. The workflow shown below, one I use all the time on my 21:9 monitor, is not possible in W10:

 

 

This is a fact, not an opinion.

 

Because on my Surface 3, I have a high resolution display and it's hard to use anything that isn't scaled up without being very close to the display.

I had a Surface Pro 2 for about a year, as a laptop replacement, and it never even occurred to me to scale the display. Native HD on a 12" screen is perfectly usable with a mouse and keyboard and Metro apps are perfectly usable with touch at that size, too. It is not ideal for desktop use, my SPro 2 was always attached to a monitor at home, but it was definitely usable when I was away from my desk. The same is true of my 8" tablet - it works much better when it is attached to a monitor but that doesn't mean I can't get work done when it's not. OTOH, my software just doesn't work if I scale the display. I end up with menus taking up all the space, leaving too little room for the document/image I am working on. These are all facts. Again, you can have an opinion on how useful it is to run a small screen without scaling but that doesn't alter the fact that it is measurably easier with W8 than with W10.

[link6155]

This is a fact, not an opinion.

 

I had a Surface Pro 2 for about a year, as a laptop replacement, and it never even occurred to me to scale the display. Native HD on a 12" screen is perfectly usable with a mouse and keyboard and Metro apps are perfectly usable with touch at that size, too. It is not ideal for desktop use, my SPro 2 was always attached to a monitor at home, but it was definitely usable when I was away from my desk. The same is true of my 8" tablet - it works much better when it is attached to a monitor but that doesn't mean I can't get work done when it's not. OTOH, my software just doesn't work if I scale the display. I end up with menus taking up all the space, leaving too little room for the document/image I am working on. These are all facts. Again, you can have an opinion on how useful it is to run a small screen without scaling but that doesn't alter the fact that it is measurably easier with W8 than with W10.

 

This is my Surface Pro 3 with photoshop running at normal DPI:

As you can see, the buttons are way to small to price for tablets user and way too small to price for cursors even. When you referred to Microsoft setting the Surface at 150% DPI, you made it sound like they are enlarging elements, which is the wrong way to look at it. They made the display a high PPI to make images more crisp and sharper relative to standard PPI screens, they didn't just make things larger for it to be touch friendly. That is fact, not an opinion.

[Motor_Mouth]

Those buttons are easy to use with a mouse. That's why I always carry one with my tablet.

 

Sadly, your "fact" is incorrect. Scaling the display will decrease the PPI, not increase it. e.g. If you have 400 ppi at 100% and increase the dislay scaling to 200%, that will result in your effective ppi being reduced by half in both the vertical and horizontal directions. So if your 400ppi represented 20 pixels x 20 pixels at 100%, then at 200% it will be reduced to just 10 x 10, or 100ppi.

 

Scaling will not always result in the display appearing "more crisp and sharper". Why? Because regardles of what resolution you choose, all flat panel screens have a certain number of discrete pixels. On all my screens, that is 1920 x 1200 (this is not a coincidence, BTW). So when you have no scaling, the OS sends one of it's pixels to every pixel on the panel. When you choose 150% scaling, the OS is sending one of it's pixels to 1.5 pixels on the panel, both vertically and horizontally. That means every second pixel is going to be a blend of each of the pixels around it. That works OK on a small tablet screen but if you try it on a big HD monitor, you will see the effect and everything will look softer. At 200% it works properly again, as the OS is sending each of it's pixels to a group of four pixels on the screen (two wide and two high). That means when you apply anti-aliasing you can get a much sharper image than using 100% scaling. So some scaling values work better than others.

[Dashel]

Lack of documentation?  The new help/Get Started app is 1000x better than the void Win8 dumped users into.  Not even counting the new (loverly) popup hints...

[Motor_Mouth]

I read about the pop-up hints but I haven't seen them yet, and I installed the build that was supposed to have them a couple of weeks ago. I was quite interested to see how they worked but so far they don't.

[TAZMINATOR]

This is my Surface Pro 3 with photoshop running at normal DPI:

As you can see, the buttons are way to small to price for tablets user and way too small to price for cursors even. When you referred to Microsoft setting the Surface at 150% DPI, you made it sound like they are enlarging elements, which is the wrong way to look at it. They made the display a high PPI to make images more crisp and sharper relative to standard PPI screens, they didn't just make things larger for it to be touch friendly. That is fact, not an opinion.

 

 

That's what the stylus is for.   They have thin stylus ...  for that purpose.

 

Or you can download Photoshop Touch for that tablet.

 

You can even use the mouse if you want to.

[link6155]

That's what the stylus is for.   They have thin stylus ...  for that purpose.

 

Or you can download Photoshop Touch for that tablet.

 

You can even use the mouse if you want to.

 

Well that's why they have 200% dpi scaling, I disabled it in the picture to show how hard it would be to use for both touch and non-touch. Even with the pen it is hard to hit such tiny buttons accurately.

[TAZMINATOR]

Well that's why they have 200% dpi scaling, I disabled it in the picture to show how hard it would be to use for both touch and non-touch. Even with the pen it is hard to hit such tiny buttons accurately.

 

They have smaller stylus for that button size as shown in your photo.

 

Here is the stylus you could use: http://www.amazon.com/The-Joy-Factory-Ultra-Slim-BCU201/dp/B00HZQLMCM

 

Look at the pics on the website... you will not have any problem with it.

[link6155]

They have smaller stylus for that button size as shown in your photo.

 

Here is the stylus you could use: http://www.amazon.com/The-Joy-Factory-Ultra-Slim-BCU201/dp/B00HZQLMCM

 

Look at the pics on the website... you will not have any problem with it.

 

That's not an active digitizer, which means no palm rejection nor hover features. It doesn't matter what size the pen is, something small is just going to be hard to press.

[TAZMINATOR]

I have several stylus for drawing, for tapping, etc.  depends what I am doing with the tablet ... such as photoshop, web surfing, etc.

 

I have zero problems with mine.  even the palm resting, etc.

 

If you have to research for it... it's out there for that purpose you look for.  There are many sizes and types.

 

If nothing, then get Bluetooth mouse for tablet ...  very easy to hook it up.  (or a keyboard with touchpad (similar to laptop)). 

 

That's why people are making tools for similar problems so they make your life easier with the tools you look for...

[Mockingbird]

I just checked DPI and on the Surface Pro 3 by default in Windows 8.1, it's set to 150%.

[George P Global Moderator]

I just checked DPI and on the Surface Pro 3 by default in Windows 8.1, it's set to 150%.

 

I'm guessing that's about the best setting for that size of screen and that res, if it was a smaller, say 10" screen they'd have a higher default I'm sure.

[Charisma Veteran]

I went through all the pages of this, but a bit quickly, so please forgive me if someone already addressed this:, but... you can still snap 4 apps, provided your device has the specs to do so. Not sure why you think they went backwards to only 2.

 

So far from what I've seen and experienced, this is going to be fantastic. A seamless and consistent experience across devices, something familiar and easy to use whether you're coming from 7 or 8 (or a competitor)? As soon as virtual desktops will persist, and they start in with some of the porting of Android and iOS apps over, it's going to blow away the competition. And I say that as someone who has more Linux/Android devices than Windows ones (although I am posting this now from a Surface 3).

[Motor_Mouth]

You can only snap four windows on the Desktop, which is a completely different thing to split-screen. It wont' stop a full-frame program from opening over the top of all of them, nor will resizing one window resize the others.

 

A seamless and consistent experience across devices, something familiar and easy to use whether you're coming from 7 or 8 (or a competitor)? As soon as virtual desktops will persist, and they start in with some of the porting of Android and iOS apps over, it's going to blow away the competition. And I say that as someone who has more Linux/Android devices than Windows ones (although I am posting this now from a Surface 3).

Windows 7 offers "a consistent experience across devices" and, just like Windows 10, it is hopeless for touchscreens. Only a complete idiot would even want the same UI for working with a mouse and with touch.

[Motor_Mouth]

Well that's why they have 200% dpi scaling, I disabled it in the picture to show how hard it would be to use for both touch and non-touch. Even with the pen it is hard to hit such tiny buttons accurately.

If you can't hit a spot that big with a pen, you'd be hopeless in my job. When I am drawing in Photoshop, I have to join hand-drawn lines that are often just two or three pixels wide. If I couldn't join them seamlessly, I wouldn't last very long. OK, sometimes I zoom in a bit but even at 500% zoom, that's still just a 10 pixel target to hit squarely in the centre. Those buttons are probably four or five times as big and you can hit them wherever you like. Of course, if you did work in my industry, you wouldn't care about the size of the buttons anyway, because you'd know all the hotkeys (you simply cannot work efficiently in Photoshop if you don't know a lot of hotkeys).

[Charisma Veteran]

You can only snap four windows on the Desktop, which is a completely different thing to split-screen. It wont' stop a full-frame program from opening over the top of all of them, nor will resizing one window resize the others.

 

Windows 7 offers "a consistent experience across devices" and, just like Windows 10, it is hopeless for touchscreens. Only a complete idiot would even want the same UI for working with a mouse and with touch.

But it isn't the same. Have you seen Continuum? Tablet mode versus desktop mode? It adapts to the type of device you're on as well as the size of the screen.

[Motor_Mouth]

No it doesn't. For a start, Continuum doesn't work on most tablets, you have to switch to and from Tablet Mode manually. Secondly, Tablet Mode doesn't do anything to make working with touch easier. It is a waste of time. Windows 8 does a much better job of adapting and offers a far more consistent experience.

[Charisma Veteran]

/shrug

 

I like that it prompts, actually. I'm pretty sure you can turn that off, but I'd prefer the popup asking me instead of automatically doing it, in case I want my screen setup to stay the way it is for whatever reason. And well, I guess if you think spacing menus and buttons out and simplifying the layout is "nothing", then sure.

 

Look, I don't hate Windows 8, but it's a bit schizophrenic and jarring switching between the two separate modes. 10 seems to give more choices (tiles or no tiles, tablet or desktop mode, etc) than its predecessor while still being smooth and fully integrated. Upgrade or don't, it doesn't matter to me what you do, obviously. I'm not trying to argue or convince anyone they're wrong--to each his own. Just saying, I think they've done a spectacular job combining the best bits of 7 and 8/8.1, adding heaps of great new stuff, and that it will only get better after the official release and further tweaks are made.