SpaceX Updates (Thread 7)

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Got my elbows on the table.....Doc...where are you......

 

As a side note, whatever happened, hope it wasn't a noobie doing a test improperly....if the static fire was okay, it would appear propulsion systems were reasonable at that time.

[DocM]

Can't say publicly yet. 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Enough said...good enough for me....

[DocM]

 

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

I thought this was neat...

 

 

 

 

 

[DocM]

SLC 4W to the left, SLC-4E to the right.

 

The rectangular white object at 4W is a big tent they're using to build hardware under. This due to recent rains in California. Once done this will be a landing pad.

 

At 4E the large hangar is clear, as is the road arching towards the pad. The empty rectangle angling down and to the right of the pad is where the old Mobile Service Tower used to be when retracted. A new MST will need to go in for vertically integrating USAF payloads.

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Thanks...was having a hard time figuring what is where.....

[DocM]

 This is SLC-4 during the Titan days. You can see the (enormous) MST in the pad position, and how it would retract to the area I previously mentioned.

 

 

This gives a good idea of how huge the old MST was. That rocket is a Titan IV, which was far from a midget.

 

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

That is one massive structure. This is certainly a veteran site..will be nice to see it  hopping again.

[DocM]

Massive as it was it could only handle the 62 meter Titan IV. Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy with the existing fairing are 70 meters and could get taller. With a Raptor upper stage and stretched fairing for Bigelow habs and large milsats they could get to 74-75 meters.

[Draggendrop Veteran]

This gives me a much better appreciation of just how big Falcon 9 is, and FH will be.....and they are landing first stages of this, not just on land...but on a platform at sea....wow!

 

And this is only going to get bigger and better....can't think of a better "show" than launch, land, touch-up, launch.....then propulsive landings.....

 

[BetaguyGZT]

1 hour ago, Draggendrop said:

This gives me a much better appreciation of just how big Falcon 9 is, and FH will be.....and they are landing first stages of this, not just on land...but on a platform at sea....wow!

 

And this is only going to get bigger and better....can't think of a better "show" than launch, land, touch-up, launch.....then propulsive landings.....

 

Yep, and they're doing "more with less" thanks to the march of technology. FH will be lifting more than Saturn V could when it gets its' full slew of planned upgrades. Remember that SpaceX does things in baby steps.

[DocM]

Not quite. SV could lift 112 tonnes, but even with a big Raptor S2 FH may not go more than 70 tonnes. BFR on the other hand...

[BetaguyGZT]

I was thinking more along the lines of FH-X, full Methane in S1 as well as S2. Still counts as FH in my book, but it'll technically be a completely different rocket by then. Think of differences between the original Enterprise versus the one we saw in Wrath of Khan; that degree of upgrades and enhancements. (We don't talk about The Motion Picture ... *shudder*)

 

If SpaceX goes that route. I'm convinced that there's still a need for F-X and FH-X after BFR/MCT is on-line.

[DocM]

Its not that easy to adapt S1 to methane. A methane stage needs about 20% more volume vs an RP-1 stage to have the same energy, so you either increase diameter or length. 

 

Most launchers have a fineness ratio of 10-12:1 (Length:Diameter), but F9/FH is already over 19:1. Nope.

 

To convert F9/FH to methane you need to increase S1 diameter to ~5.2 meters, which destroys road transportability anywhere but Texas where they have automatic routing software for wide loads.

 

Ain't gonna happen, except for the USAF funded S2 which will be short enough to be flown, or manufactured and tested in Texas then barged where ever.

[BetaguyGZT]

Yeah. I was thinking about it, and you're right. To convert to MO2, it needs to be a 5m or larger, and it's already adding substantial weight. Then there's the question of whether they want to densify or not. So yeah, it's a snowball on the side of a mountain. Better to go big already -- really big.

[Draggendrop Veteran]

/s    Yes...they could build one "big friggen rocket" .........wait a minute.........never mind.......( sulks away......)

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Few images of Vandenberg, taken from a train...

http://imgur.com/a/vQyf7

 

Main building

 

 

Landing Pad

 

 

 

TE

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BetaguyGZT]

18 minutes ago, Draggendrop said:

 

 

In what Universe is the Atlas 5 cost competitive with anything? 

 

They pulled that one out of their ... posterior. And yes, I'm being nice. 

 

That's just funny. 

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Actually, it was close when SpaceX puts a 50% surcharge for DOD handling requirements. The ULA, after block buy rate, for whatever that's worth , puts it at around approximately 10 million more than F9, both for cheapest available launches.

 

How long ULA could keep this up is unknown, but the price has been brought down to be "competitive".

[flyingskippy]

13 minutes ago, Draggendrop said:

The ULA, after block buy rate, for whatever that's worth , puts it at around approximately 10 million more than F9, both for cheapest available launches.

Is that after their little "assurance" subsidy? 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

No...that would kind of put it out of reach. What I have been reading consistently for a bit, is SpaceX F9FT at $60 million plus 50% for DOD loads putting their lowest DOD launch cost at $90 million. ULA quote is for today's direct competition..no idea how long they could keep it low, but they are fighting...meaning SpaceX has done their job in reducing launch costs.

 

This was F9FT and Atlas comparison.....Delta is quite ridiculous.......

[DocM]

And if SpaceX starts reusing cores their price would drop yet again, putting ULA in a real bind.

[DocM]

A very large crane at LC-39A, presumably to help with upcoming work,

 

1) remove the Shuttle era Rotating Service Structure

 

2) remove the old lightning tower

 

3) add 2 more levels to the Fixed Service Structure (Falcon 9 + Dragon is much taller than the Shuttle)

 

4) install the Crew Service Arm and White Room to the Fixed Service Structure (for Dragon 2 astronauts)

 

5) erect a new lightning protection system