Network cable tester & broken cable?

[sc302 Veteran]

I think the cable is probably good, but the keystone is fubar'd. 

 

I have had it happen to me before...using wrong tools for keystone.  I just ended up putting ends on it and the problem went away. 

[Marshall Veteran]

1 hour ago, BinaryData said:

Uhh... I used to make cables all the time, part of our A+ study was to re-cable places when I attended Job Corps. I've never seen anyone have an issue with cat6. Sure the plastic divider is annoying to work with, but it isn't that big of an issue. I cable it the same way I cable my cat5 connections.

Agreed, Cat6 is pretty strait-forward. Now when you get into terminating Cat6a, it sucks.

[Technique]

2 hours ago, BudMan said:

do you have a continuity tester or fluke? Ohm/voltage meter? 

 

If you don't have a continuity tester with remote probe then you just connect wires together at one end and test at other end.  Alligator clips come in very handy here.  If test good then swap out 1 of the wires for another wire until you have tested them all good or found bad one(s).

 

If your first test use another pair until you know you have 2 good ones, then just swap out one at a time.

Sorry, i have none of the above.

 

However i am home from work now so i'll test out on the faceplate & hope for the best (but expect the worst :()

[sc302 Veteran]

pickup a ohm/voltage meter. 

 

these are pretty handy

http://www.amazon.com/all-sun-Autorange-Digital-Multimeter-Automotive/dp/B013JGET4O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450984349&sr=8-2&keywords=pocket+multimeter

 

 

good for a quick unterminated continuity test. 

http://www.amazon.com/Extech-CT20-Remote-Continuity-Tester/dp/B000LYTTRK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1450984414&sr=8-3&keywords=continuity+tester

 

 

don't need expensive fluke gear for that. 

[Technique]

I am really really hoping i've just found the problem.....

 

 

I just connected & re-connected 3 or 4 times to faceplates & jackstones.

 

Every time there was a problem. Usually #5. In fact i think all tonights were #5.

 

I gave up, royally Pd off.

 

Then i wondered if it was the length of the run, so i went to find the labelling for the cables i used that had connectors already so i could come here & ask.

 

And that's when i saw it .......... one of the cables i'm using is Cat5e whereas the cable under the floor & the cable at the other end in to the tester are both cat6.

 

Can you mix them or is this likely to be the cause?

 

As i say i hope this is the cause. If it is then next question is can you mix solid & stranded cable?

[sc302 Veteran]

there is nothing wrong with using cat5e keystones on cat6 cable. 

 

the difference is the pins are slightly different in the mating end of the keystone. 

 

You can kind of see it in here...one line is more foward alternating lines, one is a little more back alternating lines.  That is the only difference. 

 

where all of these in the cat 5e are the same length.

 

continuity test (a test that tests each wire for a pulse/electrical signal, which is all your tester is doing) would either receive signal or not...if it doesn't receive signal that means that one pin has not made a connection/is not receiving the electrical pulse. 

 

 

[+BudMan MVC]

yes you can mix...  what cable are you using you mean to plug from your jack to the tester?

 

Does not matter cat 5e or 6.. Does not matter solid or stranded.

 

so when they ran this cable, then they put the floorboards back... If I recall from the video this was open, why would you not run the cable and test it before covering it up?

[Technique]

Then in this case i am back to square 1 - it must be that i am doing something wrong every single time & after about 10 attempts i still fail even though i have done it a few times prior to this (not many, granted, but a few all the same) & got it right 1st time every time.

So i then don't really know what to do. Go to cat5e stranded as that is what i got right last time, drill bigger holes & have already made cabling poking out from the floor (unsightly) or have a faceplate on my wall doing SFA

 

And this is what i was trying to say... (i know there's no mention of keystone jack. You can replace 1 faceplate for keystone jack but i've tried 1 faceplate & the jack and 2 faceplates. I just put 2 faceplates in the diagram to make it simpler)

 

 

The cat6 stranded cable is 25mtr long, the cat5e stranded is 20mtr long & the underground cat6 solid core is perhaps 15-20mtr long.

[+BudMan MVC]

As long as you know those cables from your faceplates to your tester are good.. Does not matter if cat5e or 6 or 6a, 7 solid, stranded, shielded, etc. etc..

[xendrome]

Page 2 of this thread, going on 3 pages.  Test your cat5e cable on your tester, does it test good, if yes, continue to below.

 

 

1: Your terminated ends are not terminated properly at the faceplates- Fix, redo ends or replace keystone jacks

or

2: You either have a cut in the cable somewhere - inspect cable, repull new cable using existing cable as a pull.

 

This problem literally takes 30 minutes to fix, max in worse case scenario.

[+BudMan MVC]

30 min is really stretching it, that would be going for a beer out of the fridge, drinking it and maybe making yourself a sandwich

 

If your not up for running cable and terminating it, you should really just hire some professionals vs the day labor guys out in front of the hardware store...   They will terminate and test it for you before they leave..

[+ThePhoenix Subscriber²]

Just a thought here but have you got some shorter cables handy you can run from the faceplates at each end to the tester?  I only ask as it's a long run including those cables from the faceplates according to your diagram and it may be that little tester just can't deal with it.  Seen something like this before as they are only cheap little testers running off a 9v battery.

 

We have a mixture of testers at work including one of the fancier fluke setups which is fantastic but a rather expensive piece of kit.  Got to be something simple as the length "should" be OK as Cat6 should be good for 100m where as the older more common Cat5e standard gets flaky after about 50m.

[+BudMan MVC]

2 minutes ago, ThePhoenix said:

the older more common Cat5e standard gets flaky after about 50m.

Nonsense pure and simple...  We have many a run that are at the limit without any issues at all that have been there for years and years!!! If you have something flaky at 50m it most likely was a bad run from the get go...

 

You do understand there are standards for this stuff.. they don't just pull these numbers out of their ass..  Why would the standard say 100m if really only can do 50... Think for 2 freaking seconds.. If you have a connection that is not good at 50 then it is a bad run plain and simple... And was bad from day one.. Or you got something chewing on the wires or something that is now interfering wit it..  cable doesn't just go bad after a few years..

[+ThePhoenix Subscriber²]

Nope, we regularly do long runs in schools and such, mostly for PoE purposes for WiFi and such and have found consistently that after about 55m if we dont put in a little soho cab with switch in etc it causes issues.  Specially if your running with a proper gigabit connection in mind.  Mind you, if all your after is 10/100 I know you can get more distance out of them.

[sc302 Veteran]

I second on the bs nonsense.  Ran 100 meters with quality cat 5e cable, no issues. 

 

How far are you staying away from power?  If you are running along side 12" of separation is recommended otherwise you can cross at 90 degrees...but I would still keep to the 12".   Being that you are at 220 over there in the UK it may be 18". 

[+ThePhoenix Subscriber²]

Well, it's what we have come across, however the power separation  issue could be in play then, as this is usually not possible due to having to run cables where we can, most of the schools we work with are OLD buildings and we have to run cabling where existing cables have been before etc.

 

New builds are a different story mind you, we've used Cat6 with no problems on these setups, though again, these would also not have to deal with the separation issues as all the networking runs in seperate tray systems etc.

[Technique]

51 minutes ago, BudMan said:

As long as you know those cables from your faceplates to your tester are good.. Does not matter if cat5e or 6 or 6a, 7 solid, stranded, shielded, etc. etc..

Because i didn't know if you could essentially connect cat5e to cat6 - whether they were compatible.

And the patch cables i am using in the testers work fine - it's the underground cable that doesn't (or rather my terminating).

What i don't get is if i can terminate it perfectly fine but then i come to this & in 10 attempts i don't get it.
I could understand if it was #5 that didn't light ALL the time but initially it was #6 which makes it seem like it's me punching down but let's be honest, if you put the correct colour to the correct terminal then how can you possibly get it wrong if you punch down all the way? Especially 10 times.

 

I can run cable. I've done it before without a problem.

 

 

[sc302 Veteran]

then it is the tool or the keystone or the combination causing the issue...going back to possibly wrong tool for the job, causing issues with the punch at that specific location (5/6). 

 

What model keystone/wall plate do you have?  Krone and 110 keystone/wall plates look very similar, but Krone is more narrow.   Might want to retry your punches with new blocks and a krone bit. 

 

here is a krone/110 combo blade. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Fluke-Networks-10565110-Combination-Impact/dp/B000E5T6BA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1450994500&sr=8-1&keywords=10565110

 

 

[Technique]

$56? Jesus christ!!!

 

I just got a cheap keystone off of eBay. Very cheap.

The faceplates came from scan.co.uk i think.

 

The punch down tool i believe was Maplin. A few years old now but barely used & worked fine the past few times i've used it (& seemingly worked fine on 1-2-3-4, 6-7-8).

[Technique]

Well i've just sliced off some spare cable & tested it. So instead of it being over a good distance the cable i'm now trying to terminate is about 1mtr in length.

 

I wondered if perhaps it was possible to punch down too hard (i remember an early mistake i made was crimping too hard & damaging the contacts), so i tried punching down lightly. Story short - every single time without fail it's #5 flagging up as being bad.

[sc302 Veteran]

I think pin 5 is bad on one or both ends. I think you need to swap out the keystones or swap out the punch. Also fwiw cat 6 is one gauge thicker than 5e. 

[+BudMan MVC]

so did you test the wire's themselves in your run?  You really should be using keystones for 6a if what you have is 6a cable..  Not 5e

[xendrome]

14 hours ago, Technique said:

Well i've just sliced off some spare cable & tested it. So instead of it being over a good distance the cable i'm now trying to terminate is about 1mtr in length.

 

I wondered if perhaps it was possible to punch down too hard (i remember an early mistake i made was crimping too hard & damaging the contacts), so i tried punching down lightly. Story short - every single time without fail it's #5 flagging up as being bad.

Did you try a pre-made patch cable on the tester? Maybe the tester is bad not the cable.

[Technique]

Yeah I mentioned that earlier - the patch cable works fine on the tester. I appreciate a lot has been said & so you may have missed it. 

 

I don't have cat6a cable. I have cat6. Is there much of a difference?

i understand what you say about the keystone jack but trying to move away from that for a second both faceplates are cat6 so it should work in those. 

 

What at I don't get is how #6 didn't work at first. 

Then I re-do & other numbers didn't work. 

Now I do & its #5 that has been the one that hasn't worked for some time. 

 

But i cut off a 1mtr length & try to connect this to the faceplates (NOT the cat5e keystone jack) & this also has #5 not working. 

But don't forget - initially #5 worked. 

 

No I haven't tested individual wires. I suspect shops will be shut today since its Xmas so no multimeter & even if I did have one I wouldn't really know how to use it properly. 

 

Im considering buying in a stranded cat5e cable as I've not failed with that yet. 

But if I get someone else to do it for me then what profession am looking for? I can install the cable but just the terminating is a nuisance. 

[Technique]

I'm going to buy 2 new faceplates. Is there a brand I should buy, providing they're not £10 a piece? Everything I've seen so far has been pretty much unbranded. 

 

While im at it - a decent punch down tool? Again not one that costs a great deal since I won't be doing so much.