SpaceX and OrbitalATK get USAF propulsion contracts

[BetaguyGZT]

Oh .. OH. I get it now.

 

They've got contacts, friends and ex-coworkers in pretty much every facet of the MIC/OldSpace, so it makes sense that they'd be following up with OldSpace's technology lines. They take Rocketdyne's business, then they continue the natural research path that Aries I would have naturally followed.

 

Makes perfect sense, and it shows the lack of creativity that comes with OldSpace elements. They may as well be OldSpace in NewSpace clothing.

[DocM]

Now youre getting it

 

While Orbital Sciences was newspacey it merged with ATK which in a previous life was Morton-Thiokol (Shuttle and other SRB's, missiles, ordnance etc.)

 

The Shuttle SRB's were to be the basis of Ares I, and with the Constellation program cancellation ATK tried to rebrand it as Liberty for Commercial Crew. That failed, so this is round 3.

Edited January 15, 2016 by DocM

[DocM]

Also, 

 

My guess is that OrbitalATK will recycle the new Dark Knight booster for SLS. Shuttle SRB size, sharing some tech, but a new fuel grain and composite segments. 

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

/s  Here is my guess.

 

 

 

[BetaguyGZT]

Sheesh, really. OrbitalATK's new motto:

 

"... ADVENTURE!
.... SUSPENSE!
.... FUNDING! ... erm, we mean ... FOR SCIENCE!"

 

Bleh. Hope SpaceX and Bigelow knock their blocks off. Preferably sooner.

[DocM]

Outtakes from the OATK Earnings Call WRT one item this will partially fund.

 

 

Quote

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Our objective is to develop a modular vehicle system capable of launching national security payloads and what is known as the EELV or Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle as well as scientific and commercial satellites and to conduct initial launches using this new system by the end of the decade.

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With regard to the Flight Systems initiative, on the new launch vehicle to be developed jointly with the Air Force, if that goes forward from the decision point next year, then that has the potential to generate revenue, certainly by 2018, possibly by the end of 2017 beginning on how it is structured.

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There is certainly some important carryover from Ares 1 with regard to the solid rocket propulsion. It also benefits from and in turn provides benefits to NASA's space launch system which is in a sense a descendant of the Ares 1 project and to some other NASA and Defense programs as well. So there is a fair amount of carryover from a prior work that ATK conducted back five years or longer ago.

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And so, I am a skeptic with regard to many of the claims that have been made for cost reductions related to reusability and in the case of our specific program, we are designing it to be cost competitive with not only the current pricing, but even somewhat lower pricing that may emerge in the future. But, you are correct, our system does not contemplate reusability and we will have to wait and see whether that's a good judgment or not.

 

[DocM]

This definitely is sounding like Liberty reborn

 

Liberty used Shuttle SRB-based solids for the lower stage and an Ariane based liquid upper stage. 

 

This version would likely use the OrbitalATK Dark Knight composite solid booster segments for the lower stage(s), which were developed for the SLS Advanced Booster program. The upper stage could be anything from ULA's Centaur ($) to a new stage based on Blues BE-3 (likely) or an XCOR engine.

 

Liberty and its composite structure Orion-based capsule evolved as a commercial crew competitor after NASA's Ares 1 was cancelled as party of the Constellation program, but it was quickly eliminated.

 

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/04/21/nasa-begins-negotiations-orbital-atk-vehicle-assembly-building/#sthash.IAaSnj24.dpuf

 

NASA Begins Negotiations with Orbital ATK on Vehicle Assembly Building Use

 

KENNEDY SPACE CENTER, Fla. (NASA PR)  NASA has selected Orbital ATK Inc. of Dulles, Virginia, to begin negotiations on an agreement to use High Bay 2 in the iconic Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) at the agencys Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

 

The prospective property use agreement, which also will include a mobile launcher platform, reflects Kennedys transformation to a multi-user spaceport supporting both government and commercial organizations.

 

Over the past few years, the people of Kennedy have worked diligently to transform the center. We are now a true multi-user spaceport supporting a variety of different partners successfully, said Bob Cabana, Kennedy director. We look forward to working with Orbital ATK in the future to help expand the capabilities of this unique, historic asset.

 

NASA will remain the primary user of the VAB for the Space Launch System and Orion programs. If an agreement is negotiated, NASA will act as the overall site operator for the facility.

 

The potential agreement is the result of a competitive Announcement for Proposals the agency released in June 2015.

 

The VAB, a national landmark, was completed in 1966 for the assembly of the Apollo/Saturn V moon rockets. For 30 years, it acted as the final assembly point for all space shuttle missions. The building is 525 feet tall and 518 feet wide.

Essentially a large steel box, a mobile launcher platform measures 160 by 135 feet. The platforms surface features wide openings that align with a space-bound vehicles engines and direct the rockets blast into the flame trench below.
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Original Liberty concept

 

[Beittil]

Yay, a 'new rocket' and guess who paid for its development... well, thats right! Not Orbital ATK

 

Grab a NASA paid 5 segment SLS booster, stick some more segments on it et voila, new rocket

[flyingskippy]

Never was a big fan of putting a crew capsule on top of a solid rocket. The Jupiter organization wasn't a big fan of it either.  Just not controlable once it's lit and your talking very precious cargo. 

[DocM]

What put the fork into Ares 1 was thrust oscillations, which all solids exhibit to some degree.

 

Look at a shuttle cabin video and the crew is being rattled pretty good after launch, but a Soyuz launch is smooth by comparison. That's thrust oscillation from the SRB's.

 

Ares 1 was a stretched SRB and the length caused a reasonable, which begat a very enhanced thrust oscillation - enough that it could injure the crew. Serious enough some half-jokingly commented the oscillations would turn a crew into tomato sauce.

 

NASA spent a load installing vibration dampers, but they were so heavy the reduced margins threw everything out of whack.  Mass cutting etc. and it was downhill from there.

 

 

[BetaguyGZT]

Yeah, I remember reading something about that. There were all sorts of creative ideas about how to deal with those oscillations; up to and including some special "Dampener Seats" loosely based on earthquake-proofing tech used for buildings, but as @DocM pointed out any and all ideas involved adding mass that simply couldn't be budgeted into the Vehicle.

 

That's the tradeoff with using SRB's. Lots of power, but you get oscillations that you have to contend with. SLS is going to have those oscillations in spades compared to the Shuttle ... probably by a factor of four in terms of intensity because of how large and powerful they're gonna be (double the thrust, quadruple the oscillation intensity).

[Draggendrop Veteran]

This is a little perplexing.....this is to be competitive with what?.......I really must be missing something here.....

[DocM]

They plan to compete for EELV payloads, but those have been designed to fly on liquid launchers with at most a few much smaller solids which fall away long before MaxQ. Not so with Liberty.