Reference: Some Ideas for Best Laptop for Development and Graphics

[DevTech]

NOTE: needs updating to mention current specific models  but almost all the criteria and conclusions still hold up.

 

Just pondering a bit on the intersection of technology and the unique requirements of modern development in a portable device.

 

Note: I am maintaining a summary post at:

 

Must have items for Development:

 

• Minimum 16 gig RAM, preferrably 32 or 64  for Various VMs
• Touch screen for testing mobile apps in various emulators
• Ideally, 2 hours of battery at full CPU and GPU load but I suspect that is not yet possible in 2016 unless the CPU and GPU are under powered
• 4K type screen - 3xxx by 2xxx for readability
• CPU 6700HQ or better, 6600U possibly in special cases
• GPU NVIDIA 960M or equivilent Quadro
• 512 gig SSD plus ideally 1 Tb 2nd drive
• I/O connector such as Thunderbolt to drive 2 external 4K Monitors
• Weight should not be important for a healthy human but lighter is better provided there is enough weight to leave a stable working surface.
• Large enough power supply to handle full load without draining battery

 

A Surface Book with larger (but still detachable) screen, and a base with 970 instead of 940 along with a second CPU and more RAM slots would be very nice and there is a lot of empty space in the keyboard unit to do that. That would feel very 2016ish advanced!

 

Until then, the sad technology situation is what it is and compromises need to be made.

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by DevTech
added Reference to the title to suggest old thread not get locked

[DevTech]

Alienware 15 (R2)

 

This model was recently upgraded to take a QHD Touch Screen, has a 6700HQ or 6820HQ CPU, 970 or 980 GPU, 16 or 32 gig RAM, Thunderbolt and good battery life under load.

 

About 7 lbs.

 

Meets all development requirements reasonably well, but a Quadro GPU might be better for 3D design  software.

 

Around $2500 cost.

 

 

[DevTech]

Dell XPS 15

 

QHD Touch Screen

 

6700HQ CPU, 960 GPU, 16 gig or 32 gig RAM, 512 or 1 Tb SSD

 

84 wh battery if second SSD slot is sacraficed equals decent battery at load.

 

About 4.5 lbs

 

About $3000 to $3500

 

Meets requirements reasonably well but weak GPU.

 

[DevTech]

Microsoft Surface Pro 4

 

QHD Touch Screen (4:3)

 

6650U CPU, no GPU (Intel Iris) 16 Gig max RAM, 512 or 1 Tb SSD

 

About 2 lbs

 

About $3000

 

Approaches a relaxed version of requirements, slightly weak CPU, very weak GPU

 

[Mando]

22 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Just pondering a bit on the intersection of technology and the unique requirements of modern development in a portable device.

 

Must have items for Development:

 

• Minimum 16 gig RAM, preferrably 32 or 64  for Various VMs
• Touch screen for testing mobile apps in various emulators
• Ideally, 2 hours of battery at full CPU and GPU load but I suspect that is not yet possible in 2016 unless the CPU and GPU are under powered
• 4K type screen - 3xxx by 2xxx for readability
• CPU 6700HQ or better, 6600U possibly in special cases
• GPU NVIDIA 960M or equivilent Quadro
• 512 gig SSD plus ideally 1 Tb 2nd drive
• I/O connector such as Thunderbolt to drive 2 external 4K Monitors
• Weight should not be important for a healthy human but lighter is better provided there is enough weight to leave a stable working surface.
• Large enough power supply to handle full load without draining battery

 

A Surface Book with larger (but still detachable) screen, and a base with 970 instead of 940 along with a second CPU and more RAM slots would be very nice and there is a lot of empty space in the keyboard unit to do that. That would feel very 2016ish advanced!

 

Until then, the sad technology situation is what it is and compromises need to be made.

 

Dell Precision M6800 

 

my dev laptop at work. all boxes ticked! (minus 4k display built in, but its an option iirc)

[DevTech]

Microsoft Surface Book

 

QHD Touch Screen (4:3)

 

6600U CPU, 940 GPU, 16 gig max RAM, 512 or 1 Tb SSD

 

About 3.5 lbs

 

About $3500 to $4000

 

Approaches a relaxed version of requirements, slightly weak CPU, slightly weak GPU

 

The Apple like artificial huge price jumps to get decent RAM and SSD is psychologically quite annoying.

 

[Jose_49]

I think I read rumors about Nvidia launching a 980mx and 970mx... Should wait for that... Or get a 980 Desktop for Laptop.

[DevTech]

4 minutes ago, Mando said:

Dell Precision M6800 

 

my dev laptop at work. all boxes ticked! (minus 4k display built in, but its an option iirc)

I didn't want to focus too much on cost but the Precision can be annoying that way unless there is a Dell promotion going on but HP and Lenovo are even worse with their work stations

 

They have a Precison 5510 version of the XPS 15 which is more configurable and your M6800 has been replaced with Skylake based 7710   (with 15" being 7510)

 

Both the 7510 and the 7710 show a QHD option but  they don't use the word "Touch" in the label so that is puzzling.

 

But if I can confirm touch, it belongs on my possbly arbitrary list - if we give up that requirement, there should be some sort of overwhelming alternative benifit because giving up Touch means having to load up the laptop bag with a tablet as well for touch device development testing

 

 

 

[+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹]

27 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Dell XPS 15

 

QHD Touch Screen

 

6700HQ CPU, 960 GPU, 16 gig or 32 gig RAM, 512 or 1 Tb SSD

 

84 wh battery if second SSD slot is sacraficed equals decent battery at load.

 

About 4.5 lbs

 

About $3000 to $3500

 

Meets requirements reasonably well but weak GPU.

 

that is what i have and i freaking love it.  dells screen are second to none.  the colors are perfect. unbelivable difference in day to day use.

 

though i have 6300HQ and 8Gb RAM, please enough for most tasks.

[DevTech]

9 minutes ago, Jose_49 said:

I think I read rumors about Nvidia launching a 980mx and 970mx... Should wait for that... Or get a 980 Desktop for Laptop.

I looked at Clevo based laptops with Desktop 6700K CPU and 980 GPU but that yeilded 3 issues:

 

1. Battery life under load was  really short

 

2. None of these custom laptops came with a QHD Touch Screen

 

3. Although I think complaints about laptop weight to be a silly socially induced whine from Cupertino, 10 lbs and up is certainly pause for thought when you can similar performance for 7 lbs and under

 

I am also unclear  how the jump from 970 to 980 gets you much in a non gaming environment. For 2D and 3D graphics design, a jump   to Quaddro might be preferred?

 

[BinaryData]

My MSI Gaming Laptop handles VMs just fine, I've ran up to 4 before I saw performance problems. I've never seen a laptop, besides a high end graphics laptop ($5,000+) with 32GB of Memory, even 64GB is ridiculous. You don't need 64GB, hell even 32GB is overkill.

 

I run 3D Studio Max on mine with 8GB just fine, I run Unreal 4 just fine, no problems with it. I'd like 16GB, but I'm not paying $300 for Memory + 2 way shipping.

 

You seem to have answered your own questions, so what are you really posting for?

 

Just now, DevTech said:

I looked at Clevo based laptops with Desktop 6700K CPU and 980 GPU but that yeilded 3 issues:

 

1. Battery life under load was  really short

 

2. None of these custom laptops came with a QHD Touch Screen

 

3. Although I think complaints about laptop weight to be a silly socially induced whine from Cupertino, 10 lbs and up is certainly pause for thought when you can similar performance for 7 lbs and under

 

I am also unclear  how the jump from 970 to 980 gets you much in a non gaming environment. For 2D and 3D graphics design, a jump   to Quaddro might be preferred?

 

Dude... What you're wanting, and the battery life IS going to be short. 

[DevTech]

2 minutes ago, BinaryData said:

My MSI Gaming Laptop handles VMs just fine, I've ran up to 4 before I saw performance problems. I've never seen a laptop, besides a high end graphics laptop ($5,000+) with 32GB of Memory, even 64GB is ridiculous. You don't need 64GB, hell even 32GB is overkill.

 

I run 3D Studio Max on mine with 8GB just fine, I run Unreal 4 just fine, no problems with it. I'd like 16GB, but I'm not paying $300 for Memory + 2 way shipping.

 

You seem to have answered your own questions, so what are you really posting for?

 

Dude... What you're wanting, and the battery life IS going to be short. 

With Skylake and DDR4,   it is easy to get a 16 gb DIMM. So typically in the compact laptops that have sockets (some are soldered these days) there are two sockets yeilding 16gig or 32 gig.

 

In some gaming and work station laptops that  have 4 DIMM sockets you get a max of 64 gig so with Skylake, there are actually a decent selection of models that can have 64 gig RAM. I am not saying you will need it, but the option is there.

 

On the use of desktop parts in a laptop, I was replying to a post that I did not see it as a practical option. (useful perhaps for deploying temporary servers)

 

When possible, I try to dual-purpose my posts as a potential service to the Neowin community by including informative reference material  and as something I have an interest in. I am personally considering a new laptop for development. My previous attempts have all resulted in a return to a desktop unit  but I suspect in 2016, another attempt to make the jump might be worthwhile. All of the hardware that I have listed have features that perk my attention and I am hoping that the community might spark an idea or two that can help and either way we might have a useful starting point for others.

 

[goretsky Supervisor]

Hello,

 

The Lenovo ThinkPad P50 (15") or P70 (17") both go to 64GB DDR4 and have Xeon options.  However, I don't think they have 4K UHD touchscreens, just touch screens at FHD (1920×1080) resolutions. Also, the P70 goe up to a Quadro M5000M/8GB and two Thunderbolt 3 ports, while the P50 goes to Quadro M2000M/4GB and has one Thunderbolt 3 port.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

[MS Bob 11]

Look for mobile workstations from Lenovo or HP.

[T3X4S]

latest MBP w/ 4K multi-touch monitor - problem solved.

[DevTech]

1 hour ago, T3X4S said:

latest MBP w/ 4K multi-touch monitor - problem solved.

You forgot the 1 gallon can of crazy-glue...

 

Could also glue together a render farm array of 16 Mac Airs with an iPad Pro on top...

 

[DevTech]

2 hours ago, goretsky said:

Hello,

 

The Lenovo ThinkPad P50 (15") or P70 (17") both go to 64GB DDR4 and have Xeon options.  However, I don't think they have 4K UHD touchscreens, just touch screens at FHD (1920×1080) resolutions. Also, the P70 goe up to a Quadro M5000M/8GB and two Thunderbolt 3 ports, while the P50 goes to Quadro M2000M/4GB and has one Thunderbolt 3 port.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

Lenovo P50s - no QHD Touch

 

Lenovo P50 - no QHD Touch

 

Lenovo P70 - no QHD Touch

 

-----------------------------

 

Lenovo P40 Yoga

 

6600U CPU, QHD Touch (14" WQHD (2560 x 1440) IPS), 16 gig RAM, 512 SSD, NVIDIA Quadro M500M 2 gig

 

About 4 lbs

 

About $3200

 

CPU ok, Yoga transforn is nice, but the M500M is bizarre - about a 930M and even with work station drivers it won't beat the 940 in a Surface Book

 

[DevTech]

1 hour ago, UXGaurav said:

Look for mobile workstations from Lenovo or HP.

See previous post. Lenovos do not have QHD Touch. A serious problem in 2016 for a Dev Machine...

 

I will examine HP and report back.

 

[DevTech]

1 hour ago, T3X4S said:

latest MBP w/ 4K multi-touch monitor - problem solved.

I guess there is a second approach that does not involve crazy glue.

 

The MBP 15 Retina Display running WIndows 10 might be a bit long in tooth at this point but when you think about it, all it really needs is a Touch Screen input, a Skylake CPU and a mouse with two buttons.

 

So, here is how to make it work:

 

 

Step 1 - Fly to North Korea and enroll in the discounted "People's Republic Reality Distortion Field Brainwashing Fast Track Weekend Retreat"

 

Step 2 - Accept the fact your thinking was completely wrong and that "Being Cool" is the only possible objective for any human endevour.

 

Step 3 - Grab your complementary prototype "Macbook 4mm" 11" with dual Intel Core-M and Apple ARM CPU on the way out

 

Step 4 - Move to San Francisco and buy skinny jeans, fake black glasses and a wooly hat or any equivalent Hipster Uniform. (See: http://leemart.in/hipster-stack )

 

Step 5 - Reject any form of development, I.T. or graphics that does not run well on a small low powered device device and write blog articles on how "Less is More" because you sure as heck need a lot less of any kind of useful information to read anything at all on a 11" screen. Come to the epiphany that "useful information" does not belong in the new world of the Post Post-Modernism Post PC era. (The Canadian Government has proof of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_Fire )

 

Step 6 - Buy a large urban style messenger bag to hold your Macbook and iPad Pro and your iPhone because trying to emulate a mobile device on your Macbook 4mm would be just silly. Thanks to Step 1, you can't see the incongruity of this situation, but you are happy that all these ultra-thin Talismans of Fruity Power (tm) leave enough room for your new Swift book. (http://www.amazon.com/Swift-Beginners-Develop-Design-2nd/dp/0134289773/)

 

Step 7 - There is no Step 7. It was as easy as 1-2-3-4-5-6...

 

[T3X4S]

1 hour ago, DevTech said:

You forgot the 1 gallon can of crazy-glue...

 

Could also glue together a render farm array of 16 Mac Airs with an iPad Pro on top...

 

Sorry - I didnt fully read your OP where this was more of a pondering of what it would take.  My answer was based on what is out there that is closest to what you are asking for.

A fully loaded MBP will do the stuff faster than a similarly outfitted PC - thats all I was basing my post on

[DevTech]

1 minute ago, T3X4S said:

Sorry - I didnt fully read your OP where this was more of a pondering of what it would take.  My answer was based on what is out there that is closest to what you are asking for.

A fully loaded MBP will do the stuff faster than a similarly outfitted PC - thats all I was basing my post on

Hey how is your pet snake doing? (the Python)

 

I actually liked the last MBP 17" which was not too under powered compared to comtemporaries of the time and was hoping they would go somewhere with a designer focused graphics powerhouse. But instead they discontinued it and appeared to focus on an endless output of increasingly smaller devices. It wouldn't surprise me if Mac Air and Macbook Pro vanish into a single Macbook line at some point.

 

[T3X4S]

I didnt get the job @ Amazon, thankfully - so no longer need to mess with learning that stuff.

I am now a Sr SysAdmin @ Dell and, again thankfully, dont have to go that route.

If that is what you meant by Python -

(I dont own a mac or skinny jeans FWIW) 

 

[DevTech]

Addendum:

 

"A fully loaded MBP will do the stuff faster than a similarly outfitted PC"

 

If we compare apples to Apples, equivalent hardware becomes equivalent. A 6700HQ is a 6700HQ at least as a starting point. To reduce fan noise and copper cooling weight one may be throttled ecessively. To extend battery, more throttle. To supply a smaller "cooler looking" power brick, possibly more throttle. So after the high level details match it is certainly possible that similar specs can lead to different performance as a second level line of investigation.

 

[DevTech]

5 minutes ago, T3X4S said:

I didnt get the job @ Amazon, thankfully - so no longer need to mess with learning that stuff.

I am now a Sr SysAdmin @ Dell and, again thankfully, dont have to go that route.

If that is what you meant by Python -

(I dont own a mac or skinny jeans FWIW) 

 

Yeah that was it. I'm actually feeling happy for you. Amazon sounds  dismally brutal headed up by a madman that gets too much slack just because he is successful.

 

Dell is making more models that fit my criteria than any other so they must be doing something cool after going private. I wish they would price their Precisions more agressively but Lenovo and HP work station prices skyrocket even faster when fully configured.

 

[DevTech]

3 hours ago, UXGaurav said:

Look for mobile workstations from Lenovo or HP.

HP wins my award for "Most Obtuse Product Site of 2016" full of missing information and "coming soon" stuff and zero indication that any of their work station laptops have a QHD Touch Screen. The number 1 product feature on every workstation product description is "Downgrade to Windows 7" - No wonder they want to split the company and dump their money losing PC division.

 

They have one device that could be useful to people reading this thread:

 

HP Spectre x360 15

 

6600U CPU, QHD Touch Screen, 16 gig RAM

 

Folds like a Lenovo Yoga