64% of 18-24 year olds didn't vote in the Brexit poll

[+John. Subscriber¹]

5 minutes ago, philcruicks said:

And that's fair enough, they can;t complain, As I said those who didn't vote I think are stupid.

But I did vote.

I think the issue I have is that I can't see why you want another go at it? We didn't have any upheaval when the General election happened last year, and to be fair that's 'less democratic' than this one, with the FPTP system, so why is there so much backlash on this one? 

[Skiver Veteran]

8 minutes ago, philcruicks said:

<snip>

 

And yes I'm sure the England will regain it's standing in the world (not saying the UK as it won't be, Scotland and NI will leave), we are the 5th largest economy, I have no doubt we'll survive and do the British thing of making the best of it.

But it won't be better, we as a country do not have the ability to sustain ourselves as a sole country, we need imports and being out of the EU will make that more difficult.

 

<snip>

I wouldn't be worried about the open market side of things, just as we need the imports, these countries need their exports (AKA us buying them). There may be some tough words coming out the EU but right now, more than ever they need to ensure the UK is still buying their goods. If they put the price up then we'll start to look elsewhere and negotiate deals with other areas of the world. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I think we have some tough times ahead of us but I do believe we'll pull through and I do believe we'll end up better for it in the long run - This is coming from someone who voted in too

[philcruicks]

3 minutes ago, John. said:

I think the issue I have is that I can't see why you want another go at it? We didn't have any upheaval when the General election happened last year, and to be fair that's 'less democratic' than this one, with the FPTP system, so why is there so much backlash on this one? 

I think part of the backlash is because its not a decision that could be changed in 4 years at another election like with the general ones, and I think the FPTP system confuses a lot of people and they don't know how close the votes can be, the style of this vote made the split in opinion far more obvious to average Joe and so you get more people talking about it. 

[+John. Subscriber¹]

1 minute ago, philcruicks said:

I think part of the backlash is because its not a decision that could be changed in 4 years at another election like with the general ones, and I think the FPTP system confuses a lot of people and they don't know how close the votes can be, the style of this vote made the split in opinion far more obvious to average Joe and so you get more people talking about it. 

That's fair enough. On the other side though, I think the In or Out is a much fairer way of voting, and in fairness we haven't had a vote on the EU in 40 years, which is a lot worse than 4. 

[philcruicks]

5 minutes ago, John. said:

That's fair enough. On the other side though, I think the In or Out is a much fairer way of voting, and in fairness we haven't had a vote on the EU in 40 years, which is a lot worse than 4. 

Oh I agree its a fairer way of voting, I've long thought FPTP for general's needed to be changed, but just cause its fairer doesn't mean I have to like or agree with the result

[+John. Subscriber¹]

5 minutes ago, philcruicks said:

Oh I agree its a fairer way of voting, I've long thought FPTP for general's needed to be changed, but just cause its fairer doesn't mean I have to like or agree with the result

Completely, and I'm sure 48% of the population don't agree either, however there's a difference between lumping it, and actively petitioning for another vote. 

 

I didn't win the Euro Millions but you don't see me asking for another go  

[philcruicks]

Just now, John. said:

Completely, and I'm sure 48% of the population don't agree either, however there's a difference between lumping it, and actively petitioning for another vote. 

 

I didn't win the Euro Millions but you don't see me asking for another go  

No, but I highly doubt you had a near 50/50 chance of winning.

[+John. Subscriber¹]

4 minutes ago, philcruicks said:

No, but I highly doubt you had a near 50/50 chance of winning.

Genuine question, how many times do you personally want another go at voting? Is it until we get an 'In' result? Or is it best of 2 or 3? What happens if it's the same result?

[DocM]

1 hour ago, shockz said:

The conservative dream.

 

The first time I was able to vote, a presidential election was happening and I excitedly watched the debates, researched the candidates, reviewed all issues, etc... just as many of my friends at that time similarly did. My decision wasn't impulsive at all. Your view of the younger generations blindly voting for democrats is no different than old farts looking for the "R" column and going down the line, checking every one regardless of who they are.

I didn't say a word about which way they'd go, that's your flipping fantasy.

 

I only stated they tend to be impulsive and make poor decisions in many realms.  Any patent knows this book, chapter and verse. Left, Right or dead Center.

 

Some could turn into the leftists who this weekend attacked city permitted far right wing demonstrators - some of which were stabbed, or they could end up as the far right wingers. Or even IS sympathizers.

 

Crap shoot.

[Stoffel]

31 minutes ago, John. said:

I didn't win the Euro Millions but you don't see me asking for another go  

But you do get another chance of winning Euro Millions, there are lots of chances to participate so not at all the same as this referendum.

[+John. Subscriber¹]

Just now, Stoffel said:

But you do get another chance of winning Euro Millions, there are lots of chances to participate so not at all the same as this referendum.

And you don't get another chance at voting either. So why are people calling for another chance to? 

[shockz]

13 minutes ago, DocM said:

I didn't say a word about which way they'd go, that's your flipping fantasy.

 

I only stated they tend to be impulsive and make poor decisions in many realms.  Any patent knows this book, chapter and verse. Left, Right or dead Center.

 

Some could turn into the leftists who this weekend attacked city permitted far right wing demonstrators - some of which were stabbed, or they could end up as the far right wingers. Or even IS sympathizers.

 

Crap shoot.

You didn't, yet it's certainly implied, and a constant republican talking point... to the point where they try to come up with half baked laws making it difficult for college students to get to a polling place at campus. Replace college students with minority "abc", same things.

 

Also, Being impulsive in many realms isn't a trait unique to the 18-24 year old group.

[Stoffel]

3 minutes ago, John. said:

And you don't get another chance at voting either. So why are people calling for another chance to? 

You can participate in Euro Millions whenever you want, it's an ongoing lottery.

The Referendum is not something that will pop up again next week.

 

So your comparison still makes no sense

[+John. Subscriber¹]

1 minute ago, Stoffel said:

You can participate in Euro Millions whenever you want, it's an ongoing lottery.

The Referendum is not something that will pop up again next week.

 

So your comparison still makes no sense

It was never meant to be a direct comparison, rather you have another go just because you're unhappy with how the result turned out.

[ramesees]

For those people who are calling for a "do-over" and who are in the Remain camp - what would your reaction have been if it had been 52/48 to Remain and the Leave voters had asked for a "do-over" ?

[shockz]

3 minutes ago, ramesees said:

For those people who are calling for a "do-over" and who are in the Remain camp - what would your reaction have been if it had been 52/48 to Remain and the Leave voters had asked for a "do-over" ?

If you're confident in the results, you shouldn't fear a do-over.

 

While I'm not in the UK, I've seen plenty of people who voted "leave" are now regretting it after the cold hard truths are now apparent, new information coming to light, and people actually paying attention to what they voted for.

[ramesees]

6 minutes ago, shockz said:

If you're confident in the results, you shouldn't fear a do-over.

 

While I'm not in the UK, I've seen plenty of people who voted "leave" are now regretting it after the cold hard truths are now apparent, new information coming to light, and people actually paying attention to what they voted for.

Thats not the question I asked though - is a "do-over" only permissable when the result is "wrong" but not if it is the "correct" result (which according to most people calling for a do-over seems to be "stay").

 

It is akin to Ireland being asked to vote again for ratification of the Lisbon treaty in 2008 when they initially voted "no".

Once they got the "yes" vote that was it - hardly democracy now is it if you have to keep voting until the correct result is obtained - why bother asking in the first place if you are going to ignore it ?

[Skiver Veteran]

1 minute ago, shockz said:

If you're confident in the results, you shouldn't fear a do-over.

 

While I'm not in the UK, I've seen plenty of people who voted "leave" are now regretting it after the cold hard truths are now apparent, new information coming to light, and people actually paying attention to what they voted for.

It's not about confidence in a vote, where does this stop? So we hold a new one, and lets say for arguments sake it does indeed swing the other way. Then those in the leave camp have just had they felt was the best way forward taken away, If I was them then I'd be asking for a do-over. We just end up repeating the same thing over and over and nothing ever moves forward.

 

Unfortunately those people who didn't vote or changed their mind should have put more thought into this the first time around. I've said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again (as a person who voted in), the decision has been made and now is the time to deal with it and move forward. 

[+John. Subscriber¹]

6 minutes ago, shockz said:

If you're confident in the results, you shouldn't fear a do-over.

 

While I'm not in the UK, I've seen plenty of people who voted "leave" are now regretting it after the cold hard truths are now apparent, new information coming to light, and people actually paying attention to what they voted for.

I voted Liberal Democrats in 2010 based on the policies they brought forward, and I was disgusted at how they turned out. Not once did I ask to change my vote.

[DocM]

12 minutes ago, shockz said:

You didn't, yet it's certainly implied, and a constant republican talking point... 

I'm not a Republican, I'm a recovering Democrat.

 

12 minutes ago, shockz said:

Also, Being impulsive in many realms isn't a trait unique to the 18-24 year old group.

That true, but with teens to mid 20's it has a biolocal cause and more probable. Go argue with the studies.

[Stoffel]

1 minute ago, Skiver said:

It's not about confidence in a vote, where does this stop? So we hold a new one, and lets say for arguments sake it does indeed swing the other way. Then those in the leave camp have just had they felt was the best way forward taken away, If I was them then I'd be asking for a do-over. We just end up repeating the same thing over and over and nothing ever moves forward.

 

Unfortunately those people who didn't vote or changed their mind should have put more thought into this the first time around. I've said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again (as a person who voted in), the decision has been made and now is the time to deal with it and move forward. 

That's why the petition for a do-over has some nice limits, the vote, in either direction, should be at least 60-40 and 75% of the population has to vote.

That seems like some sensible way of looking at it. That way you can say there is a clear majority either way

[dipsylalapo Supervisor]

I've seen quite a lot of coverage about those who voted Leave but now regret it. As we are leaving, I'm guessing that we won't ever know of the people that voted to Remain but regret that decision.

[shockz]

Just now, DocM said:

I'm not a Republican, I'm a recovering Democrat.

I find that extremely hard to believe considering your posting history the last 6 years. Us RWI usual's could probably count on one hand the number of times you've had something positive to say about a democrat, republicans however..

[Stoffel]

3 minutes ago, John. said:

I voted Liberal Democrats in 2010 based on the policies they brought forward, and I was disgusted at how they turned out. Not once did I ask to change my vote.

You keep comparing it to something that has a chance for a do-over. Maybe not straight away, but you will be able to vote again in 4 years.

There is no chance to vote every 4 years to stay in or out of the EU.

 

So still not a valid comparison.

[philcruicks]

I also think you'd get a far more stark result in a 2nd vote, the issue I have is not that the vote didn't go the way I hoped, its that it's so close (I said earlier I'd have accepted a 60/40 even if it didn't go my way because it would have at least been a significant majority).

 

I suspect you'd get a lot of those people who didn't vote joining in a 2nd  vote and as mentioned a lot of people who voted leave and realised it wasn't such a good idea after (as shockz  and dipsy said).

 

As such I think you'd get a more decisive outcome 60/40 for example, you may also get a lot more leave voters as they see it can be done and you can challenge the establishment, who knows.

 

But I just feel the vote was far too close on such a large and complex issue that has been mis-campaigned by both sides and has such wide reaching and long lasting ramifications and that can't be un-done.