64% of 18-24 year olds didn't vote in the Brexit poll

[PGHammer]

18 hours ago, Defcon said:

~80% of the 55+ age group did. This isn't surprising, young people are apathetic when it comes to politics. They want to make their opinions heard but not when it really matters?

 

I saw these numbers on a UK website analyzing the polls. If they are true then the outcome shouldn't be surprising at all. What were they doing - too busy with FB and Twitter to actually vote? So now they can spend more time on social media whining about it?

 

FWIW I think the Brexit decision is a disaster and just the harbinger of bigger things to come since the world seems to be giving in to FUD, but this does explain why it happened.

All of you moaning and groaning over BREXIT - what would you actually lose by the UK leaving the EU?  Not your business, but you personally.

Did you yourself actually VOTE?

Also, if you are simply worried about change, how do you cope with life?

[philcruicks]

1 minute ago, PGHammer said:

All of you moaning and groaning over BREXIT - what would you actually lose by the UK leaving the EU?  Not your business, but you personally.

Did you yourself actually VOTE?

Also, if you are simply worried about change, how do you cope with life?

We lose economic stability as already proven with the drop in the £ vs basically every important currency in the world.

 £2.5bn wiped off the stock marked in 1 day.

Credit rating just 10mins ago got downgraded from AAA to AA.

We lose the ability to import and export as easily to other countries in the EU thus increasing the prices of goods here (thus increasing the cost of living) and increasing the cost of products we ship thus making them less competitive, again loss of money.

We lose the ability to freely travel for holidays, gap years, working holidays.

We lost investment from the EU in research and education, in farming and business.

 

We gain, a theoretical ability to somehow control our borders, when in actualy fact we'll have to keep them open like Denmark does as part of the deal to keep trading and even if we could close them illegal immigrants would still be the problem they are today.

[PGHammer]

3 hours ago, DocM said:

I didn't say a word about which way they'd go, that's your flipping fantasy.

 

I only stated they tend to be impulsive and make poor decisions in many realms.  Any patent knows this book, chapter and verse. Left, Right or dead Center.

 

Some could turn into the leftists who this weekend attacked city permitted far right wing demonstrators - some of which were stabbed, or they could end up as the far right wingers. Or even IS sympathizers.

 

Crap shoot.

Yup - far-right protesters (in California - near Sacremento) had a permit to protest; the counter-protesters that attacked them (and stabbed several) did not.  The direct equivalent would be a KKK protest attacked by BLM - and the Klansmen were the injured party.  (Multiple sources - including CNN and ABC News)

 

[philcruicks]

25 minutes ago, PGHammer said:

All of you moaning and groaning over BREXIT - what would you actually lose by the UK leaving the EU?  Not your business, but you personally.

Did you yourself actually VOTE?

Also, if you are simply worried about change, how do you cope with life?

We lose economic stability as already proven:

        Drop in the £ vs basically every important currency in the world.

        £2.5bn wiped off the stock marked in 1 day.

       Credit rating just 10mins ago got downgraded from AAA to AA.

We lose the ability to import and export as easily to other countries in the EU thus increasing the prices of goods here (thus increasing the cost of living) and increasing the cost of products we ship thus making them less competitive, again loss of money.

We lose the ability to freely travel for holidays, gap years, working holidays.

We lose free heathcare when in the EU

We lose investment from the EU in research and education, in farming and business.

 

I'm sure there are many more and I just can;t thinkof them off the top of my head.

 

We gain, a theoretical ability to somehow control our borders, when in actual fact we'll have to keep them open like Denmark does as part of the deal to keep trading and even if we could close them illegal immigrants would still be the problem they are today. And Legal migrants could still come as they do from outside the EU today.

 

And we'd get back the the cost of our membership, most of which we get back in investment, rebates, etc.. and the small amount we do still put in is well worth it when weighed against all the above things we'd lose.

 

Edit:

Oh and we lose political stability with the Prime Minister resigning, calls for the leader of the opposition to resign, half of his cabinet already have,

And we lose social stability with born and bred British people being told to "f**k off back to their own countries" by a minority of people who somehow this this vote justifies outright racism...

Edited June 27, 2016 by philcruicks

[PGHammer]

3 hours ago, DocM said:

I didn't say a word about which way they'd go, that's your flipping fantasy.

 

I only stated they tend to be impulsive and make poor decisions in many realms.  Any patent knows this book, chapter and verse. Left, Right or dead Center.

 

Some could turn into the leftists who this weekend attacked city permitted far right wing demonstrators - some of which were stabbed, or they could end up as the far right wingers. Or even IS sympathizers.

 

Crap shoot.

Yup - far-right protesters (in California - near Sacremento) had a permit to protest; the counter-protesters that attacked them (and stabbed several) did not.  The direct equivalent would be a KKK protest attacked by BLM - and the Klansmen were the injured party.  (Multiple sources - including CNN and ABC News)

 

[PGHammer]

2 minutes ago, philcruicks said:

We lose economic stability as already proven:

        Drop in the £ vs basically every important currency in the world.

        £2.5bn wiped off the stock marked in 1 day.

       Credit rating just 10mins ago got downgraded from AAA to AA.

We lose the ability to import and export as easily to other countries in the EU thus increasing the prices of goods here (thus increasing the cost of living) and increasing the cost of products we ship thus making them less competitive, again loss of money.

We lose the ability to freely travel for holidays, gap years, working holidays.

We lose free heathcare when in the EU

We lose investment from the EU in research and education, in farming and business.

 

I'm sure there are many more and I just can;t thinkof them off the top of my h

 

We gain, a theoretical ability to somehow control our borders, when in actual fact we'll have to keep them open like Denmark does as part of the deal to keep trading and even if we could close them illegal immigrants would still be the problem they are today. and Legal migrants could still come as they do from outside the EU today.

Economic stability (pound vs. euro) - the pound was already STRONGER than the euro, and the dip did NOT change that.  And the euro is going to go back to waning as long as UK bonds (denominated in pounds sterling) continue to pay a coupon rate.  (The ten year EuroBund has a negative interest rate; if you buy one, you don't get the entire investment back.)

Travel - subject to negotiation (as it SHOULD be) or is it that you have to negotiate with the EU on it as a separate issue too hard for your Foreign Ministry?  (I don't believe that.)

Health care - ah; NHS didn't shorten weighting lines enough to suit you?  That IS on the UK - not the EU. (We have the same issue in the US with the ACA; we need the additional health-care workers, and they are going to cost getting them - you can't cheat the training calendar.  The issue is going to crop up in the EU as a whole, whether the UK is in it or not.)

That means greater national-level investment in infrastructure (the sort of thing the UK was good at prior to the Treaty of Maastricht).

[Louisifer]

18 minutes ago, philcruicks said:

We lose economic stability as already proven:

        Drop in the £ vs basically every important currency in the world.

        £2.5bn wiped off the stock marked in 1 day.

       Credit rating just 10mins ago got downgraded from AAA to AA.

We lose the ability to import and export as easily to other countries in the EU thus increasing the prices of goods here (thus increasing the cost of living) and increasing the cost of products we ship thus making them less competitive, again loss of money.

We lose the ability to freely travel for holidays, gap years, working holidays.

We lose free heath care when in the EU

We lose investment from the EU in research and education, in farming and business.

Drop in the £ vs basically every important currency in the world. - This is a great thing for outside investors as their investments now gets them more while the pound is weak.

 £2.5bn wiped off the stock marked in 1 day.                                    - Stocks will only lose money if you sell them while its low, this is a temporary dip so in a few months or years everything will be back to normal.

We lose the ability to freely travel for holidays, gap years, working holidays. - Passport + Visa and there's no difference than visiting any other non-EU country, it's pretty simple these days when you can sort visas out online.

We lose free heath care when in the EU                                              - Get travel insurance like you would anyway.  

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

17 minutes ago, philcruicks said:

We lose the ability to import and export as easily to other countries in the EU thus increasing the prices of goods here (thus increasing the cost of living) and increasing the cost of products we ship thus making them less competitive, again loss of money.

We lose the ability to freely travel for holidays, gap years, working holidays.

We lose free heathcare when in the EU

For that first one, the UK is the 5th largest economy so unless you have really lousy leadership there isnt any reason you can negotiate acceptable terms with the EU regarding trade. They need your money more than you think. 

 

For these other two, welcome to the rest of the world (and by world, you are now one of the 165 countries that are not part of the EU).   You can still travel where you want, you just need to do it the way the rest of us do. As for free health care while your in Italy, once again no different than most of the rest of us.

[+John. Subscriber¹]

46 minutes ago, philcruicks said:

We lose economic stability as already proven with the drop in the £ vs basically every important currency in the world.

 £2.5bn wiped off the stock marked in 1 day.

Credit rating just 10mins ago got downgraded from AAA to AA.

We lose the ability to import and export as easily to other countries in the EU thus increasing the prices of goods here (thus increasing the cost of living) and increasing the cost of products we ship thus making them less competitive, again loss of money.

We lose the ability to freely travel for holidays, gap years, working holidays.

We lost investment from the EU in research and education, in farming and business.

 

We gain, a theoretical ability to somehow control our borders, when in actualy fact we'll have to keep them open like Denmark does as part of the deal to keep trading and even if we could close them illegal immigrants would still be the problem they are today.

All the things you mention that are 'lost', aren't. They will be if we do absolutely nothing, however we have at least 2 years to get a progressive government in place, that can look after our principles and our outlook. There is absolutely no reason that if, done properly, these things cannot be sorted before Article 50 is up.

[game_over]

4 hours ago, philcruicks said:

It's not that we're not capable of surviving outside the EU, no one in remain thinks the UK is ging to turn into something out of Mad Max, I said earlier we'd recover and carry on, it's just that remain people believe we'd be better of in.

Thats fair enough, but it's just an opinion, no solid facts. The truth is nobody knows, they can guess, make educated assumptions even... but no country has ever left the EU, so it's completely unknown.

 

If the vote went to remain, i'd have been perfectly happy.. because above everything I respected our democracy and right to vote... i'd have been happy with whatever the British people had chosen. If this 2nd referendum came about i'd have purposely voted leave and pressed others to do so just to help make it stick, and then never vote again in the UK. I was told from a young age that it's important we exercise our right to vote and was pressed to vote by my parents from as soon as I could... it would have been a sad day if it was made a mockery by revotes because it didn't go the way people wanted. I'd have felt the same which ever side won

[Emn1ty]

1 hour ago, game_over said:

If the vote went to remain, i'd have been perfectly happy.. because above everything I respected our democracy and right to vote... 

This is exactly my opinion with anything that regards these things. As long as it is voted on, I believe that's what matters. It means the people decided, and I am surprised there are so many people who want to call "do over!" when the democratic path doesn't go their way. There's no more fair way to decide this than what was done.

[Defcon]

Nigel Farage and UKIP are on record saying (before the vote) that in case the vote was Remain, the country should have as many referendums as needed till they got a Leave verdict, since that was the 'will of the people'.

 

Well, it works both ways. A revote is not undemocratic, it is in fact extremely democratic. If the vote changes that just means the populace were not informed enough or were influenced by media. many are already saying how they were given no information - how many people even knew there was an Article 50 let alone what it means?

 

This is exactly what's happening here in the US - Trumps popularity is entirely a media creation.  People are gullible and easily misled. I think voting should be restricted by intelligence and maturity, except of course we have no real way to measure either (IQ and age are best guesses). 

[Defcon]

And lets not forget that the single biggest reason cited by the Leave campaign - refugees - are a direct result of illegal invasions by US/UK and continued bombings, supplying rebels etc, for profit. Create the crisis, then refuse to help the innocents affected, blame them and act like they are stealing your jobs when in fact you destroyed their lives and country. What wonderful logic, i.e. hypocrisy, hatred and xenophobia. Alive and well in the majority of people in UK and the US.

[game_over]

37 minutes ago, Defcon said:

Nigel Farage and UKIP are on record saying (before the vote) that in case the vote was Remain, the country should have as many referendums as needed till they got a Leave verdict, since that was the 'will of the people'.

 

Well, it works both ways. A revote is not undemocratic, it is in fact extremely democratic. If the vote changes that just means the populace were not informed enough or were influenced by media. many are already saying how they were given no information - how many people even knew there was an Article 50 let alone what it means?

 

This is exactly what's happening here in the US - Trumps popularity is entirely a media creation.  People are gullible and easily misled. I think voting should be restricted by intelligence and maturity, except of course we have no real way to measure either (IQ and age are best guesses). 

And if Nigel and UKIP wanted the referendum they'd have been told to stick it as well. They'll say anything...

 

The post referendum propaganda was just as bad as the campaign propaganda which is why a lot of the population are scared and want to change their vote, I completely agree voting should have been restricted, or not even happened at all.. The whole thing is a farce, the British people do not have the education or required information to be able to make an educated vote.

 

That being said, I still firmly believe the EU is not the only way, I love the fact this has created political turmoil. It's a wake up call, a kick up the arse and a fresh start. Article 50 could be a place of strength for the UK because having full control of the central bank will help guide the UK into more specialization and greater efficiency. This was not something that the UK has while in the EU, as the ECB and Brussels had to focus their monetary policy on controlling prices, rather than using inflation as a means of stimulating growth. 

 

I'm really excited to see how it plays out and shapes the future of the UK.

[Defcon]

I heard England are starting a petition demanding a replay of the Iceland match

 

English player overheard "I played like utter ###### but I never thought it could happen...."