Jerry Jones gives Cowboys players ultimatum: Stand for anthem or sit for game

[techbeck]

Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said Sunday any player who disrespects the flag will not play.

 

Jones’ comments, the strongest made on the anthem controversy, came after he was asked about Vice President Mike Pence leaving the game in Indianapolis early after several San Francisco 49ers players took a knee during the national anthem.

 

"I know this, we cannot ... in the NFL in any way give the implication that we tolerate disrespecting the flag," he said following the Cowboys’ 35-31 loss to the Green Bay Packers. "We know that there is a serious debate in this country about those issues, but there is no question in my mind that the National Football League and the Dallas Cowboys are going to stand up for the flag. So we're clear."

 

Jones and the rest of the team knelt arm-in-arm before the national anthem before a game against the Arizona Cardinals two weeks ago, days after President Trump reignited the anthem-protest controversy.

 

More....

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/10/09/jerry-jones-gives-cowboys-players-ultimatum-stand-for-anthem-or-sit-for-game.html

 

Good deal.  Detroit Lions owner said that if players stopped kneeling, then she will donate money to organizations to help their cause.  Also, Kaepernick reached bottom and stated that he will stand for the anthem if he is allowed to play again. 

[kcbworth]

What does this have to do with politics?

[techbeck]

1 minute ago, kcbworth said:

What does this have to do with politics?

It is called posting in the wrong forum.  I am in the process of having it moved.   Just a mistake....

[Dick Montage]

23 minutes ago, techbeck said:

Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said Sunday any player who disrespects the flag will not play.

"Disrespects the flag" is such an asinine thing to say.  Some would argue that it's absolutely respectful to the nation, and vehemently patriotic to show a peaceful yet notable act of defiance to the POTUS when he is acting in a way that they deem to be detrimental to (and here's the kicker) THE PEOPLE OF the state.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Nefarious Trigger

[PsYcHoKiLLa]

"I know this, we cannot ... in the NFL in any way give the implication that we tolerate disrespecting the flag,"

 

So does that mean they tolerate innocent black men being gunned down by the police or choked to death for no reason? Cos that's what the protest is about.

 

One guy was shot dead, in his own car, when he went to fetch his licence which the officer asked him to fetch. Apparently black people are supposed to possess the power of telekinesis.

[Dick Montage]

8 minutes ago, techbeck said:

It is called posting in the wrong forum.  I am in the process of having it moved.   Just a mistake....

In fairness, it is politically motivated.

[techbeck]

12 minutes ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said:

"I know this, we cannot ... in the NFL in any way give the implication that we tolerate disrespecting the flag,"

 

So does that mean they tolerate innocent black men being gunned down by the police or choked to death for no reason? Cos that's what the protest is about.

Funny  considering that 2wks ago after Trump said players should be fired there was a rise in the amount of people who knelt during the anthem.  Then a week later, those numbers dropped.  So lots there was just protesting Trump because of his comments.  So there are lots that are just following the crowd. And there are a lot of stats that black people are not the majority of those killed by  cops.

 

People have a right to protest and I am all for that.  But there is a time/place for it and just because you have the right to do something, does not make it the right things to do (protesting at the anthem).  And the anthem was not the proper place to protest.  All it is doing is dividing people more and pissing off a lot of people.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Jerry Jones, as the owner of the Cowboys, has every right to sit players for reasons such as this.  Ultimately, that is where it should lie ... not with the Executive Branch telling organizations (or private individuals) that they cannot express their First Amendment rights.  Note:  You can express your First Amendment rights all you want ... but you also can face consequences from your employer (for example Jones sitting you out the game).  This should have stayed at the "local" level ... let the players, fans and owners handle it ... not have Trump whine about it for weeks and having Pence waste taxpayer dollars attending a NFL game which was just for show.

[techbeck]

9 minutes ago, Jim K said:

  This should have stayed at the "local" level ... let the players, fans and owners handle it

They were not handling it well and was just serving to divide people more and more.   Want to protest, do so in a way that is not disrespectful.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

11 minutes ago, techbeck said:

They were not handling it well and was just serving to divide people more and more.   Want to protest, do so in a way that is not disrespectful.

It isn't the Executive Branch's place to dictate when/how people (or their employers) express their First Amendment rights (when done so peacefully).  "Divide people more and more" ... hmmm ... that is very subjective.  If fans didn't like players kneeling ... they could have expressed that with their pocket books.  If owners didn't like players kneeling ... they could have set them out.  You didn't need Trump flapping his gums condemning their actions (though ironically he has been quiet regarding the white nationalists in Charlottesville this weekend).  

[techbeck]

Just now, Jim K said:

It isn't the Executive Branch place to dictate when/how people (or their employers) express their First Amendment rights (when done so peacefully).  "Divide people more and more" ... hmmm ... that is very subjective.  If fans didn't like players kneeling ... they could have expressed that with their pocket books.  If owners didn't like players kneeling ... they could have set them out.  You didn't need Trump flapping his gums condemning their actions (though ironically he has been quiet regarding the white nationalists in Charlottesville this weekend).  

What, Trump does not get an opinion either?  And dictate what?  He didn't order the owners to fire players, he said they should be fired.   There are also a lot of people boycotting and expressing their distaste with they pocket books.  NFL ratings are down and the NFL has dropped to the least popular professional/college sport.

 

You want to protest, peacefully, I am all for it.  But again, doing so during the national anthem sends the wrong message.  That  really is my main gripe with the whole protesting at the anthem.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

11 minutes ago, techbeck said:

What, Trump does not get an opinion either?  And dictate what?  He didn't order the owners to fire players, he said they should be fired.   There are also a lot of people boycotting and expressing their distaste with they pocket books.  NFL ratings are down and the NFL has dropped to the least popular professional/college sport.

 

You want to protest, peacefully, I am all for it.  But again, doing so during the national anthem sends the wrong message.  That  really is my main gripe with the whole protesting at the anthem.

He has been going on for weeks about this...

 

Also, yes, he can have an opinion but a POTUS' opinion carries a lot of weight ... even those opinions which are in stark contrast to the First Amendment (which as a POTUS you should be defending).  These are peaceful "protest" by some players...don't like it ... don't watch.  If the NFL collapses because of this ... so be it.

[techbeck]

1 minute ago, Jim K said:

Also, yes, he can have an opinion but a POTUS' opinion carries a lot of weight ...

Of course....and glad he said something.   People were just getting more upset and angry and causing more issues.
 

Quote

These are peaceful "protest" by some players...don't like it ... don't watch. 

 

Peaceful, sure, right time/place, no.  Also, I am curious how many of these players are actually doing something outside if the NFL and not just 2min per week as a "look at me" stunt.  Kaepernick didnt do anything at first, but now he is and I applaud him for it.  Standing around accomplishes very little, if anything at all.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

35 minutes ago, techbeck said:

Of course....and glad he said something.   People were just getting more upset and angry and causing more issues.
 

Peaceful, sure, right time/place, no.  Also, I am curious how many of these players are actually doing something outside if the NFL and not just 2min per week as a "look at me" stunt.  Kaepernick didnt do anything at first, but now he is and I applaud him for it.  Standing around accomplishes very little, if anything at all.

Right, I'll probably defer future political comments to the other thread.  Anyway, like I said originally this should have always been a NFL/players/fan issue...not an Executive Branch issue.  Their duty is to uphold the Constitution ... not suggest firing of citizens because they expressed (peacefully) their First Amendment rights (that is the employer's job).

 

Though, I did want to touch on this ....

 

52 minutes ago, techbeck said:

What, Trump does not get an opinion either?  And dictate what?  He didn't order the owners to fire players, he said they should be fired.   There are also a lot of people boycotting and expressing their distaste with they pocket books.  NFL ratings are down and the NFL has dropped to the least popular professional/college sport.

 

You want to protest, peacefully, I am all for it.  But again, doing so during the national anthem sends the wrong message.  That  really is my main gripe with the whole protesting at the anthem.

I really do not want to pick and choose stats ... or how accurately ratings reflect true viewership (in this day where you can consume media via a host of platforms) ... but there is one simple fact.  NFL revenue has continued to grow despite the "doom and gloom" of the "ratings drop."  They pulled in $14B last year (an increase of 7% from the year prior and $6B more when compared to 2010).  They aren't going anywhere and this kneeling vs. non-kneeling is probably having a minimal effect at best (or worst).

[techbeck]

1 minute ago, Jim K said:

I really do not want to pick and choose stats ... or how accurately ratings reflect true viewership (in this day where you can consume media via a host of platforms) ... but there is one simple fact.  NFL revenue has continued to grow despite the "doom and gloom" of the "ratings drop."  They pulled in $14B last year (an increase of 7% from the year prior and $6B more when compared to 2010).  They aren't going anywhere and this kneeling vs. non-kneeling is probably having a minimal effect at best (or worst).

Increasing costs have a lot to do with the money the NFL makes as well.

[Rippleman]

1 hour ago, Jim K said:

It isn't the Executive Branch's place to dictate when/how people (or their employers) express their First Amendment rights (when done so peacefully).  "Divide people more and more" ... hmmm ... that is very subjective.  If fans didn't like players kneeling ... they could have expressed that with their pocket books.  If owners didn't like players kneeling ... they could have set them out.  You didn't need Trump flapping his gums condemning their actions (though ironically he has been quiet regarding the white nationalists in Charlottesville this weekend).  

They didn't dictate it, the target of your sides obsession gave his opinion. Types like you turned into something more. 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

7 minutes ago, techbeck said:

Increasing costs have a lot to do with the money the NFL makes as well.

How much was that?

[techbeck]

Just now, Jim K said:

How much was that?

I don't know exactly, but  costs are always rising.  That is just a known fact.  May not make up for the total numbers, but that is part of the reason why they are still making money.

[Dick Montage]

57 minutes ago, techbeck said:

People were just getting more upset and angry and causing more issues.

So the POTUS should use his personal opinion with the weight of the office to silence a protest?

[techbeck]

9 minutes ago, Nefarious Trigger said:

So the POTUS should use his personal opinion with the weight of the office to silence a protest?

No, to make people show respect.  Other and more better ways to protest this than 2min a week.  No one is saying thy cannot protest, just that during the anthem is not the proper place to do so.

Edited October 9, 2017 by techbeck

[Jim K Global Moderator]

15 minutes ago, techbeck said:

I don't know exactly, but  costs are always rising.  That is just a known fact.  May not make up for the total numbers, but that is part of the reason why they are still making money.

Gotcha, and I agree that costs are always rising (such is inflation) ... but my point was that one cannot point to viewership as an indicator of the overall health of the NFL.  Personally, I do not care about the NFL (I like College Football) ... and never have (except when Joe Montana and Jerry Rice were playing).  

 

However, the NFL is still as healthy as they ever were and they aren't falling off due to some players kneeling.  You have recent articles like this which helps to explain their current state (and value).

Quote

NFL owners are minting money thanks to hefty TV contracts and a favorable labor deal with the players. Operating profits (earnings, before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) were a record $101 million per team last season, with every team north of $40 million. The $3.2 billion in league-wide income is $500 million more than the combined earnings of teams in the NBA, NHL and MLB.

 

The Cowboys are the NFL's most valuable team for the 11th straight year and the world's most valuable sports franchise. America’s Team is worth $4.8 billion, up 14%, with profits of $350 million thanks to a booming merchandise business and the revenue opportunities at their new practice facility, The Star.

Full Article at Forbes

 

Edit:  And I'll be watching Monday Football tonight ... just for the Star Wars trailer ... and then turn it off ... haha.

[Dick Montage]

8 minutes ago, techbeck said:

No, to make people show respect.  Other and more better ways to protest this than 2min a week.

Respect to whom or what?  Don't say something ridiculous like "The flag" or "The anthem" - they are pawns in this and kneeling at such a point is exactly what the protest is - not against those items themselves, but the way they are a focal point to represent the issues within the nation.

[techbeck]

Just now, Nefarious Trigger said:

Respect to whom or what?  Don't say something ridiculous like "The flag" or "The anthem" - they are pawns in this and kneeling at such a point is exactly what the protest is - not against those items themselves, but the way they are a focal point to represent the issues within the nation.

if you cannot understand what that means to the men and women that fought for this country and which allowed these players to make the money they are making, then goodbye.  It started off as a protest to police injustice but now it has turned in to something else.  Needs to stop.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

2 minutes ago, techbeck said:

if you cannot understand what that means to the men and women that fought for this country and which allowed these players to make the money they are making, then goodbye.  It started off as a protest to police injustice but now it has turned in to something else.  Needs to stop.

...and who turned it into something else?

 

Trick question.   

[techbeck]

3 minutes ago, Jim K said:

...and who turned it into something else?

 

Trick question.   

The men and women (veterans) who got ###### off for people standing and who took offense to it.    This has been going on before Trump opened his big mouth and people were getting more and more frustrated.  Trump just made things come to a head quicker than they would haven.  And again, funny how 200+ NFL players protested after Trump opened his mouth and then the next week after, the numbers were way down.  Meaning they were just protesting Trump and his comments...not the issues at hand.