Backing up DVD / blu ray & CD collection?

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

4 minutes ago, Brandon H said:

I personally use DVDFab Passkey Lite (free tool) to decrypt the discs and Handbreak to directly transcode to mp4/mkv files (depending on if I want embedded subs or not)

I thought MP4 has embedded subs, too... I know MKV did have that...

[Brandon H Supervisor]

10 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

I thought MP4 has embedded subs, too... I know MKV did have that...

no, MP4 simply burns in the subs if you choose to have them. MKV can have multiple subs embedded right in the container and toggleable just like if you were using the disc instead of having external sub files 

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

2 minutes ago, Brandon H said:

no, MP4 burns in the subs if you choose to have them. MKV can have multiple subs embedded right in the container and toggleable just like if you were using the disc instead of having external sub files 

Oh, OK. I have both in my DVD Storage, but I have separate sub files for each, so...

[+BudMan MVC]

Yup the subtitle support is "one" of the reasons mkv is a better container

[Technique]

I've just tested out the Bad Boys DVD movie on the TV.

 

So i think playing through my PC the quality is like how Budman describes. Well, not that bad but not amazing.

Through the PS4 is better due to the upscaling i imagine.

I've now just had the DVD in the PS4 while alternating between that and Plex on the TV and i notice no difference. If i had to choose i'd say it was better through the TV a tad but only ever so slightly (if at all). I guess from this then that our TV must upscale as well.

 

OR the other possibility is my eyes are crap right now as i'm tired and i'm seeing a whole load of stuff that isn't accurate.

 

 

[+BudMan MVC]

Do you have copy of same movie from dvd and 4k?  Can you tell difference?

 

If not then yeah your tired and blind anyway...

 

But looks like you have path forward atleast.. Since you stated you don't want to leave your pc on all the time... Do you have raspberry pi around - or willing to spend the $50 to get that up and running.. And see if that will do for your plex server?

 

Or you can work out how much cash your going to drop on a nas that can also run plex, etc. etc.

[Technique]

2 hours ago, BudMan said:

Do you have copy of same movie from dvd and 4k?  Can you tell difference?

 

If not then yeah your tired and blind anyway...

 

But looks like you have path forward atleast.. Since you stated you don't want to leave your pc on all the time... Do you have raspberry pi around - or willing to spend the $50 to get that up and running.. And see if that will do for your plex server?

 

Or you can work out how much cash your going to drop on a nas that can also run plex, etc. etc.

Yeah i have both versions though i haven't tested the blu ray on the PS4 yet.

 

Never heard of a Raspberry Pi so i'd say i don't have one.

 

And the question isn't so much how much i'll spend on a NAS to get this all set up, it's how much i'd need to spend, realistically, without doing myself short and without going way OTT unnecessarily.

 

 

Regards ripping DVDs at least, would you just let MakeMKV do the standard rip and then batch everything off in to a folder or folders or would you tweak any settings somehow?

 

 

Oh and i have an idea what i might have to spend, so on that note for the time being would it suffice to rip to an external HDD all my movies and then when i've enough cash for a NAS that'll do for Plex then just transfer everything over?

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Technique

[Circaflex]

11 hours ago, BudMan said:

So makemkv is currently in between free and buy... The last version released trial has expired, need a new version 1.14.2 most likely for that to restart..  Or you could just buy it - its great software!

 

So for now just play with your DVDs..

 

So they look fine - then that is good!!  Your ready to rock.. You are renaming your video files right?  filebot is fantastic for that as well.. Use to be free, not any more..

 

Told you this hobby can get expensive hehehe

 

Did you do any music yet?  How are you watching on your TV - the firestick?

 

As to buying makemkv - you might have only a few bluray but how many dvd do you have?  You really should support such a fine product.

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Technique said:

I'm assuming i can't obtain an older version somewhere and do this all for free?

 

They look fine as in they look ok but not like the PS4 runs them. I'm fine with that though. Upscaling sounds like a headache and it'll turn me off very quickly if i start having to do too much.

 

As for renaming the videos - i've only done 1 and tbh i wouldn't need to? It (Plex) named the movie perfectly, or at least this one (Bad Boys). When i ripped Thor Ragnarok it just left it named as it was in the folder on my PC - something like T_01 or whatever.

 

I haven't actively ripped any music yet although it did find various albums on my PC without me asking it to. One thing at a time though Ripping the DVDs *should* be straight forward. You should see my audio collection though I'll need to think about how all that will be organised. The bought albums will be simple but it's the other audio i've collected over the years.

 

I have roughly 200 DVDs & probably about 5 blu rays at a guess.

If the key is expired and there is no new version out, visit the makemkv forums and they will have an updated license for use.

 

50 minutes ago, Technique said:

Regards ripping DVDs at least, would you just let MakeMKV do the standard rip and then batch everything off in to a folder or folders or would you tweak any settings somehow?

What are you asking here? What do you mean batch everything off in a folder? I would let makemkv do the rip and place the file into a folder with the title of the movie. I found plex works best when you have everything in their own folders. This is how I have mine organized and i use mediacompanion to scrape the info:

 

 

 

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, Technique said:

And the question isn't so much how much i'll spend on a NAS to get this all set up, it's how much i'd need to spend, realistically, without doing myself short and without going way OTT unnecessarily.

 

 

Oh and i have an idea what i might have to spend, so on that note for the time being would it suffice to rip to an external HDD all my movies and then when i've enough cash for a NAS that'll do for Plex then just transfer everything over?

 

Either route would work out. My recommendation would be to start the nas project now. You can either buy a prebuilt nas, or make one on your own. If you do your own route, purchase stablebit drive pool, this lets you create a "virtual" disk that combines whatever drives you want into one large one. You can continue to add drives later on without messing with the pool too. So if you start out with a 2tb drive and fill that up, you can easily add another drive and keep storing. A lot of prebuilt nas systems offer this, but you are limited to a few bays. It all depends how you want to go about it. See my attached image how drivepool works. My nas was built with off the shelf parts by myself, I run windows server on it and it runs 24/7. This is also my plex server. You can tuck it away and just ignore it, RDP or VPN into the unit when I need to do something on it, otherwise it is headless and sits in a closet for me.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Circaflex

[+BudMan MVC]

Yeah HUGE FAN of stablebit drivepool!!  I can not say enough about that software it really is the cats meow for sure.. And their support is top notch as well.. If your going to run your own box with windows then yes I would agree drive pool is a requirement.. Loss of that software was one of the things keeping me away from a predone nas, but I got over it.. But I still run it on my old N40L as my old nas with drivepool for the 3x2TB disks it has in it..

 

The ability to pick files and folders to have on more than 1 disks is the slick ass feature!!  And if you add the clouddrive addon where you can just put cloudspace into your pool - its slick feature for sure!

 

You don't really need to grab all the art on your own - plex will do that for you..

[Technique]

What i was asking is that it now just seems too easy if you get me? I'm not used to things being easy and if they seem that way then 99% of the time that means i've not quite understood something and the key point i'm missing makes it all more awkward and difficult again.

 

So just use MakeMKV to rip my DVDs and repeat 200 times letting them rip to their folder and job done?

 

Taking the example i've used (Bad Boys), the DVD itself My Computer says is 7.87GB. Once i've removed all the foreign stuff it's down to 3.26GB after the MakeMKV rip. A lot has been said so far and i remember the compressing part - am i to then compress it using Handbrake?

 

 

 

As for what i want with the drive that these movies are eventually stored on .... i don't want my PC on all the time so i figure they'll have to be in their standalone NAS connected to the router somehow. Whether this is direct (would be a problem i think) or not i don't know. I have an ethernet hub wired to the router which sits maybe 10 metres away from the router behind my TV (as i prefer things that can be wired to be wired). If a NAS could be connected there then it could work, depending how much space the NAS consumes.

And once i've finished ripping the movies and they're on the NAS, i would want a backup (i got shot earlier for saying backup so replace for whatever word is the correct word there) of all those ripped movies so that in the event the NAS blew up i'd have all the ripped movies to just put in a new one.

 

 

 

EDIT: One thing i noticed when i was trying out Plex through the TV was when i tested to see if subtitles worked (they do) i noticed i could change the picture quality settings. Apparently the 'original' was something like 500p and 3.7mb (whatever that refers to?) but if i moved a notch down the options then i could switch to something like 700p and 3mb. To my uneducated brain that means the original is not the best quality and somehow i could improve it?

Yet when i selected the 700p option, i didn't really notice a difference in picture quality. Maybe there was one but it just seemed the same to me.

[+BudMan MVC]

When you pick other than original its going to transcode it to that level..

 

Yeah it is that easy... You have no need to do anything in handbrake with your dvds if you do not want to.. It up to you if you want to try and make the files smaller..

 

Its really as simple as rip the files, name them so plex can figure out what they are.. Watch them on your TV

 

As to your multiple copies of your now ripped files - store than on an external disk.. Copy them to the cloud,  There is a new glacier mode coming for long term that is going to be $1 a month per TB... Which is really a game changer for all those companies putting long term archive stuff on tape..

 

As to moving the plex off your PC... Cheapest way to do it would be raspberry pi and a external usb disk(s)... Google it.. If you wan to go the NAS route.. Check out Synology and or QNAP... Pick one that falls into your budget and says will transcode.. And should be screaming for such low quality stuff like DVD..  Where you need more horse power is when you have to convert on the fly higher quality stuff..

[Technique]

Well i think knocking down a 7GB movie to 3.5GB is pretty acceptable. These days i don't do a whole lot of DVD buying. The vast majority came in my younger years when i would spunk money left right & centre. If i buy things now it tends to be box sets - like just bought the Marvel box sets.

 

Out of interest though what's all this technical stuff...

 

 

If you were compressing further but not really losing out on the quality do you just leave everything as standard?

[DevTech]

1 hour ago, Technique said:

Well i think knocking down a 7GB movie to 3.5GB is pretty acceptable. These days i don't do a whole lot of DVD buying. The vast majority came in my younger years when i would spunk money left right & centre. If i buy things now it tends to be box sets - like just bought the Marvel box sets.

 

Out of interest though what's all this technical stuff...

 

If you were compressing further but not really losing out on the quality do you just leave everything as standard?

I took a lot of effort to explain DVD quality and the various approaches one might take to improve it.

 

One conclusion of that is for certain: the MakeMKV and Handbrake developers have NO CLUE on how to do that so you should completely avoid doing anything other than storing an exact 1:1 copy of your original when using that software.

 

Maybe at some later point, as a hobby, you will have time to re-visit the subject of how to improve DVD quality using specialized software that won't be MakeMKV and Handbrake, and you will have original bit for bit copies to work with.

 

If you have extra attention to spare, it might be better to look into which actual DVD drives and Blu-Ray drives make better copies of the original and if there is any software for DVD RIPPING that is more like EAC for audio that takes into account data about how each model of drive works and Jitter properties etc.

 

It would be a HOBBY, since a lot of it is a LOST ART, since most people just use Blu-Ray sources one way or another...

 

 

 

[DevTech]

3 hours ago, Technique said:

What i was asking is that it now just seems too easy if you get me? I'm not used to things being easy and if they seem that way then 99% of the time that means i've not quite understood something and the key point i'm missing makes it all more awkward and difficult again.

 

So just use MakeMKV to rip my DVDs and repeat 200 times letting them rip to their folder and job done?

 

Taking the example i've used (Bad Boys), the DVD itself My Computer says is 7.87GB. Once i've removed all the foreign stuff it's down to 3.26GB after the MakeMKV rip. A lot has been said so far and i remember the compressing part - am i to then compress it using Handbrake?

 

 

 

As for what i want with the drive that these movies are eventually stored on .... i don't want my PC on all the time so i figure they'll have to be in their standalone NAS connected to the router somehow. Whether this is direct (would be a problem i think) or not i don't know. I have an ethernet hub wired to the router which sits maybe 10 metres away from the router behind my TV (as i prefer things that can be wired to be wired). If a NAS could be connected there then it could work, depending how much space the NAS consumes.

And once i've finished ripping the movies and they're on the NAS, i would want a backup (i got shot earlier for saying backup so replace for whatever word is the correct word there) of all those ripped movies so that in the event the NAS blew up i'd have all the ripped movies to just put in a new one.

 

 

 

EDIT: One thing i noticed when i was trying out Plex through the TV was when i tested to see if subtitles worked (they do) i noticed i could change the picture quality settings. Apparently the 'original' was something like 500p and 3.7mb (whatever that refers to?) but if i moved a notch down the options then i could switch to something like 700p and 3mb. To my uneducated brain that means the original is not the best quality and somehow i could improve it?

Yet when i selected the 700p option, i didn't really notice a difference in picture quality. Maybe there was one but it just seemed the same to me.

1. Don't compress your DVD with Handbrake. It will take a LOW QUALITY video source and make it WORSE.

 

2. "To my uneducated brain that means the original is not the best quality and somehow i could improve it?"

 

YES. You can make major improvements to it. But Handbrake can't. I have gone over this subject of improving DVDs extensively in this thread!

 

 

3. Out of curiosity, I don't understand why you don't want to leave your PC running but don't mind leaving a NAS running?

 

 

[+BudMan MVC]

26 minutes ago, DevTech said:

2. "To my uneducated brain that means the original is not the best quality and somehow i could improve it?"

As we went over and over and over again - DVD is only 480P out of the gate.. Best it can do, its a limit of the format... So yes its low quality.. Compared to a better source.. Ie a bluray version of the same move that will be 1080P or 4k.

 

How you IMPROVE it - is go buy a higher resolution version of the movie

 

Your not going to improve it with handbrake - what you can do is make the file smaller and still watchable per your standards/requirements.  or convert it to a divert codex all the same and not loose so much quality to be an issue, etc.

 

[DevTech]

31 minutes ago, BudMan said:

As we went over and over and over again - DVD is only 480P out of the gate.. Best it can do, its a limit of the format... So yes its low quality.. Compared to a better source.. Ie a bluray version of the same move that will be 1080P or 4k.

 

How you IMPROVE it - is go buy a higher resolution version of the movie

 

Your not going to improve it with handbrake - what you can do is make the file smaller and still watchable per your standards/requirements.  or convert it to a divert codex all the same and not loose so much quality to be an issue, etc.

 

You probably wanted to quote @Techniqueso he would see your answer, but this should do the trick.

 

@fusi0nhas DVDs which never came out on Blu-Ray so while it IS possible to make a large improvement to DVD quality using some non-standard software or hardware, and I have a general idea how to do it, I have not yet figured out if this can be currently achieved with available PC software.

 

It would never hit Blu-Ray quality of course, but should be able to get to some level of "HDTV cable channel" level of watchable. That's a big HOBBY PROJECT of its own just like PLEX is a HOBBY PROJECT for you. I doubt my own curiousity about how you upscale a DVD and end up with "more information" than the original will lead me to a HOBBY, but the information might by useful to somebody in the future.

 

So some people actually need to upscale, deinterlace, dejitter, denoise, interpolate frames etc and then apply elaborate "motion filters" to get a nice DVD result, but as as you state, most people simply bypass the issue:

 

46 minutes ago, BudMan said:

How you IMPROVE it - is go buy a higher resolution version of the movie

The 99.9 % of cases solution!

 

 

I spent time going through the Handbrake forums and they will never be a source of information since all the "MAGIC" going on is with people like the x264 and x265 Codec developers to some extent and MPEG2 for DVD which means working with devs doing the ffMPEG lib might be the only "out of the box" solution"

 

@Techniquesometimes seems to grasp a subject and then falls back again somehow so I'm fairly sure he does not see what we see when you type "480P" and "1080P" and "4K"

 

Which is why I suggested he just copy the DVDs 1:1 and then leave them alone

 

 

[Technique]

I'm not sure you get what i'm saying? Or maybe you do but i don't get what you're saying? Would a photo explain better (and no i'm not taking the ssip)? See to talk about that and mention Handbrake at that point says to me you've misunderstood me? With asking 101 questions i think we're tripping each other up maybe?

 

So regards the point #2 that Budman quoted me on and forgetting Handbrake...

 

I ripped the DVD using MakeMKV. I linked this up with Plex and tested on the TV, right?

I then tested out to see if the subtitles worked but on the screen with the subtitle option was also a quality option (stop letting your mind drift to Handbrake! Totally MakeMKV here!). It said on the (TV) screen that the original was something like 500something-p and 3.7mb. The option under this was like 700p and 3.0mb.

 

Now since my experience of "p" is that the higher the number the better the quality, i was surprised that the original is a lower number than the one underneath it. Also when i selected the 700 version i didn't really see a difference in image quality. I also remembered back to Budman telling me that DVDs are 480p yet these numbers were not 480p (and i was not using the Blu-Ray version, i was using the DVD version).

 

And finally .... forget Handbrake when responding to the above. Handbrake was not involved

 

@Techniquesometimes seems to grasp a subject and then falls back again somehow

^^ Sadly this is 100% accurate.

 

Although on the topic of Handbrake i did load the MakeMKV file to Handbrake and 'encoded' with that to finish up with a 0.99GB file or thereabouts. The quality was watchable so long as there was no other option. It was this quality that in my opinion was more like what Budman was speaking about earlier in the thread.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

England?  Aren't PAL DVDs 720 x 576?  Might explain the "500something-p"

 

/shrug

[DevTech]

7 minutes ago, Jim K said:

England?  Aren't PAL DVDs 720 x 576?  Might explain the "500something-p"

 

/shrug

I previously posted all the resolutions for the different formats.

 

720 x 576 for PAL, (identical res for BOTH 4:3 and 16:9)

 

 

[+BudMan MVC]

Those setting in plex when you look at a title is just what plex will transcode it using its default values for those quality levels.  If orginal is 480p, you can not upscale it to 720p with a transcode.. It will just those settings when it transcode it on the fly.. Look at this way say your original was 1080P at 20mbps bit rate..

 

There are lots of factors to take into account here.. Normally those would be used if you were remote or your local network sucked.. And could not handle the bit rate of the original media and you wanted to lower it so the network could handle it, or your device could view it, etc.

 

So here in my browser - which has issues direct play or stream of some media it has to convert/transcode it to different pixel size (resolution) and can do that at a different bit rate..

 

 

Now once I start streaming it - if you use the correct other software to monitor your plex you can get all kinds of info like what it actually is doing sending the media to your client

 

Like I said this is very deep rabbit hole your going down! For now - just pull the media off with makemkv and enjoy it... All the other really cool ###### will come as you get experience with it.

 

Notice that showing 2 streams... Friend a mine is watching a movie - well she has it paused currently

 

She is remote, and its streaming to her at 2mbps but that media is going from 1080p down to 720p at 2mbps, converting the 7.1 sound down to stereo.. its also changing the container from mkv to mp4..

 

Like I said this is crazy fun rabbit hole you have just peeked your head into.. Get ready for a crazy fall - think of yourself as Alice

 

One you get your plex server up and running your going to want to check out https://tautulli.com/

Its the slickest ###### for your plex server since sliced bread!

 

[DevTech]

36 minutes ago, Technique said:

I'm not sure you get what i'm saying? Or maybe you do but i don't get what you're saying? Would a photo explain better (and no i'm not taking the ssip)? See to talk about that and mention Handbrake at that point says to me you've misunderstood me? With asking 101 questions i think we're tripping each other up maybe?

 

So regards the point #2 that Budman quoted me on and forgetting Handbrake...

 

I ripped the DVD using MakeMKV. I linked this up with Plex and tested on the TV, right?

I then tested out to see if the subtitles worked but on the screen with the subtitle option was also a quality option (stop letting your mind drift to Handbrake! Totally MakeMKV here!). It said on the (TV) screen that the original was something like 500something-p and 3.7mb. The option under this was like 700p and 3.0mb.

 

Now since my experience of "p" is that the higher the number the better the quality, i was surprised that the original is a lower number than the one underneath it. Also when i selected the 700 version i didn't really see a difference in image quality. I also remembered back to Budman telling me that DVDs are 480p yet these numbers were not 480p (and i was not using the Blu-Ray version, i was using the DVD version).

 

And finally .... forget Handbrake when responding to the above. Handbrake was not involved

 

 

^^ Sadly this is 100% accurate.

 

Although on the topic of Handbrake i did load the MakeMKV file to Handbrake and 'encoded' with that to finish up with a 0.99GB file or thereabouts. The quality was watchable so long as there was no other option. It was this quality that in my opinion was more like what Budman was speaking about earlier in the thread.

Just ignore everything you are seeing - the software simply doesn't know what it is doing there.

 

All you have is 720 x 576 which would be 576i since DVD's were not "P"

 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

6 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I previously posted all the resolutions for the different formats.

 

720 x 576 for PAL, (identical res for BOTH 4:3 and 16:9)

 

 

Yea, I wasn't going to dig through 12 pages ... LOL.  I was just replying to the OP last post where he said ....

Quote

...something like 500something-p....

 

I also remembered back to Budman telling me that DVDs are 480p yet these numbers were not 480p (and i was not using the Blu-Ray version, i was using the DVD version).

...and PAL crossed my mind seeing his location.

[DevTech]

37 minutes ago, Technique said:

 

 

Now since my experience of "p" is that the higher the number the better the quality, i was surprised that the original is a lower number than the one underneath it. Also when i selected the 700 version i didn't really see a difference in image quality. I also remembered back to Budman telling me that DVDs are 480p yet these numbers were not 480p (and i was not using the Blu-Ray version, i was using the DVD version).

 

 

I really should have added the line "Just ignore all that stuff you see on the screen"

 

Which I thought would have been implied by RIP it without any change to the hard drive and then just leave it alone.

 

No software you have used can improve anything at all! Just make it worse!

 

I was attempting to locate something for you but I think if that ever happens, it has to wait until your eyes can see differences in things and you have had some experience and you haven't just gone Blu-Ray by then like rest of the world...

 

 

[DevTech]

5 minutes ago, Jim K said:

Yea, I wasn't going to dig through 12 pages ... LOL.  I was just replying to the OP last post where he said ....

...and PAL crossed my mind seeing his location.

Well, then I have provided a minor convenience then.

 

DVD is Interlaced, so we can't even refer to it as 480P or 576P, it is 480i and 576i 

[DevTech]

49 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I ripped the DVD using MakeMKV. I linked this up with Plex and tested on the TV, right?

I then tested out to see if the subtitles worked but on the screen with the subtitle option was also a quality option (stop letting your mind drift to Handbrake! Totally MakeMKV here!). It said on the (TV) screen that the original was something like 500something-p and 3.7mb. The option under this was like 700p and 3.0mb.

 

Now since my experience of "p" is that the higher the number the better the quality, i was surprised that the original is a lower number than the one underneath it. Also when i selected the 700 version i didn't really see a difference in image quality. I also remembered back to Budman telling me that DVDs are 480p yet these numbers were not 480p (and i was not using the Blu-Ray version, i was using the DVD version).

To be precise,  I will try harder not to assume too much,

 

Your 500 DVD collection is 720 x 576 Interlaced at 24 frames per second (if it is movies and 25 or 50 frames per second if it is a TV show.)

 

So when you use the "bypass the legal stuff" RIPPER to put it on hard drive, it is important to end up there exactly the same which should show up as 576i

 

If you see a "P" , then it has been de-interlaced and that is yet another transcode type of thing you want to avoid. To do de-interlacing right, just like all the other Video Processing I have been talking about is tricky, in this case because it involves interpolation to make a best guess about what the content of the missing frames should be. 

 

The Blu-Ray and Ultra Blu-Ray formats start out as "P" and don't have this issue.

 

P stands for Progressive and means Non-Interlaced

 

"Budman telling me that DVDs are 480p"

 

that is U.S., Europe is 576 and he should have said 480i, not P but either way it is very LOW resolution and takes a lot of processing to improve a bit for you and none of the software you are working with can do that.

 

 

"stop letting your mind drift to Handbrake! Totally MakeMKV here!"

 

MakeMVK uses Handbrake if there is any change at all in the format so in fact you ARE talking Handbrake like it or not

 

PLEX - will use Handbrake or similar software

 

Handbrake does not do much either, it is just another "middle man" like MakeMKV or PLEX and passes off the Transcode work to typically the x264 or x265 CODECs