SpaceX Super Heavy and Starship updates

[anthdci]

Question is are they raptors? Or are they starting out with merlins to test it. 

[devn00b]

Musk had this to say in that thread (does twitter call them that, sorry don't use twitter at all). So I'm guessing they are raptors (but are they mockups??)

 

 

 

[DocM]

Musk wasn't responding to C G or Tony Win but to Chris B - NSF

 

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Good news...no engines on the water tower...that's off...for now.../s

 

The engines would have to be Raptors...these ones shown may be weld jigs...will find out soon. (mention Merlin on a particular forum and have your hand slapped...for good reason)

 

It would accomplish nothing to use Merlins...other than prove lift. The intent is to model Raptor behavior on this rig before software/hardware configs on the "real deal...at port right now.

 

The engines will be in a line because of the ability of thrust balance for a choice of 1, 2 or 3 engines lit.

 

That's my take...online opinion #12,693,336.4 ...

[Draggendrop Veteran]

with reference to this tweet again...

 

 

 

 

While this unit was on the concrete "silo base", there was a lower circumference row of metal covering the engines.

 

The silo base is hollow and has an entrance. The engines may have been there all along and no one noticed due to them being covered.

 

Pull the unit off the concrete base, remove lower shield covering...boom...we have engines.

 

From memory, I believe that the vac units were for testing and sea level units to be used much later...will have to check to see if this has changed...unless one of you guys heard....

 

// being that this is the "ship" , the vac units would get most of the work unless EDL or lift-off (a lower gravity well world)

[DocM]

Sea level engines on both stages first, vacuum engines later. Mounting a RaptorVac costs 2 of the Starship's aft cargo bins each.

[BetaguyGZT]

No effing clue here. SpaceX are keeping their cards close to their vest on this one. Elon's the only one willing to discuss anything right now.

[DocM]

FWIW, Musk "liked" this tweet

 

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by DocM

[DocM]

They keep building segments 😵

 

Cell phone pic from last night, but it shows the huge new ring segment and they're polishing the propulsion segment. There are newly cut large circular openings, which look like they're for umbilical fittings.

There are also stainless steel panels near the Sprung structure for covering the legs, and some major curved pieces came in by flatbed. These have closely spaced edge holes, so likely for a pressurized structure - probably the prop tanks. 

At the launch site it looks like they're prepping an LZ-x style pad.

 

 

[Beittil]

Looks like that new section is now sitting on the concrete base that was previously occupied by the business end of the hopper!

[DocM]

Yup. This tweet shows it. No doubt that's being used as a weld table.

 

 

[flyingskippy]

Is this really going to be flight hardware built in the field by a water tower company? I can't wrap my head around this one. My instinct says mock up, but there is that SpaceX factor. 

[BetaguyGZT]

Testing hardware. Not going up past 5,000 feet and not anywhere close to speeds past 50 mph or anything beyond (lower than) 80 degrees vertical. It's just up-and-down for this one.

[DocM]

8 hours ago, flyingskippy said:

Is this really going to be flight hardware built in the field by a water tower company? I can't wrap my head around this one. My instinct says mock up, but there is that SpaceX factor. 

 

Stop and think about it; Caldwell  specializes in building lightweight but super-strong stainless steel tanks and their base towers. Who better?

 

Low altitude test bed, and making  eyebrows twist into knots is a SpaceX specialty 😀

 

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Small shop owners, do-it-yourselfers, small industrial fab...this is what we do.

 

No clean rooms, you do the best you can with what you have, make your own jigs, trial and error most times...your knowledge is what makes the difference.

 

This is standard stainless steel applications....how many TIG welders in your area, how many in your state, province, country....the expertise is known.

 

This is like a mega fun weekend when the group gets together and builds the unlikely...again....only this one is up a few notches.

 

One could check the bill when they are done....any bets against this being cheaper than...ULA, Ariane,NASA, Boeing, LM........(crickets)

 

Many people have become accustomed to the High end agencies and their equipment/processes....some not knowing that similar projects happen all the time in the unusual spots...cross town rental building, on the farm, industrial malls,peoples basements and garages.

 

This project is pretty cool...as are numerous others quietly being carried out as we speak...this is ingenuity.😎

[BetaguyGZT]

ULA/NG/LH-M/(Insert Mil/Gov supplier name here):

"How'd you build this?"

"After three years of committee, thinktank, alpha beta and delta design review, and other discussions with the ten Supervisors up and down the chain, we're finally prototyping. Problem is we've already spent $200 million and it's not matching up to the design we reviewed."
"Well, that's not a problem, we'll petition for more DoD funds and more time. We don't necessarily have to come up with anything useful."

 

SpaceX:

"Hey, let's build this in the south Texas climate out in the open."
"Why?"

"Because it's easier than trucking this thing halfway across the country in pieces. AND it's gonna have to deal with the weather anyway."

"Okay."

"And we wanna test it there."

"Oooh, that's clever. That'll save a ton of money."

"Oh, mind if we bring in some TIG welders we know to help out? They're pretty good."

"HOW good?"

".... they make junk into art."

"Done."

 

[flyingskippy]

Don't get me wrong. From a bottom line and SpaceX point of view it makes complete sense. It goes against the grain of everything and everyone in the industry. If I were to tell someone that this was going to lead to a spaceship capable of carrying 100 people to and from Mars, they would probably look at me if I was crazy. The details just can't come soon enough on this one.

[DocM]

And it was "predicted"  in 1948

 

[DocM]

 

[DocM]

Joy Dunn is SpaceX's Senior Manager of Spacecraft Solar Production

 

 

[flyingskippy]

It's obvious that the leg section is the meat and potatoes of the structure. Their FCC application talks about flights up to 15km and durations of 5 min. The nose section probably would only need to withstand 40 or 50 knot relative wind and wind aloft.

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Just my opinion and not meant towards anyone....

 

There has been a lot of chatter on line about the upper "tin foil" ..mostly from those with apparently little actual fab experience.

 

 

 

35 page SS Users guide, pdf   Everything that one needs to know for "generalities"...not the "exotics".

 

The "official" specifications have not been released for anything on the hopper.

 

The upper looks to be composed of 1" hollow structural tubing with light gauge sheeting, possibly 20 gauge.

 

I have no issue putting this type of structure on front of a vehicle on a track at 200 kph...but that's me.

 

Read and make your call...it will do fine for this "hopper"....

[DocM]

It may look flimsy, but experienced  welders can close those seams &  secure the plates to the structural steel.  It'll be a rock.

[BetaguyGZT]

Yep, this will be fine. Quite solid.  

[flyingskippy]

Scott Manley did a video on the hopper. It is pretty informative. Apparently someone did calculations and figured out it should only take one Raptor to get it off the ground. So, sit back grab a beer cause when this one lites it should be really uh.....hoppy.