Can I use Single Ranked RAM in one Channel and a Dual Ranked RAM in a separate Channel?


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  On 25/11/2018 at 05:34, Kloud77 said:

Another question is, do motherboards usually support cohabitation of single-ranked and dual-ranked memory modules in separate channels or is this a special feature for some motherboards?

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Maybe your problem is that you think your question is somehow meaningful.

 

Motherboards don't have a setting in the BIOS for "Rank" because it is an implementation artifact of the DIMM module that only affects the motherboard to the extent of drawing more power mostly...

 

EDIT: while in an expensive overclocking motherboard such as the Sabertooth, there will be settings for every REAL factor a mentioned in the previous post for DIMM voltage, BUS Voltage to the RAM and even timing of the PCB signals between the CPU and DIMM to allow for PCB path length to precondition the signal to reduce signal reflectance.

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 05:49, DevTech said:

Maybe your problem is that you think your question is somehow meaningful.

 

Motherboards don't have a setting in the BIOS for "Rank" because it is an implementation artifact of the DIMM module that only affects the motherboard to the extent of drawing more power mostly...

 

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Not sure what your problem is exactly, but if you don't have the answer then you should get out. People have questions of mixing Single-Rank RAM and Dual-Rank RAM all the time. 

Edited by Jim K
  On 25/11/2018 at 05:48, Kloud77 said:

Well it was not funny and I think the reading comprehension issue is on your side. You don't seem to understand the question. I asked about a compatibility issue regarding ranks and you tell me to buy something off that list... Even if I did buy something off that list, it still doesn't answer the question of whether Single-Rank and Double-Rank are compatible on different channels!

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I gave it some more thought and I already answered this I think - you are blocked by thinking this is a "real thing"

 

It is actually the least of your worries. You can most likely mix and match different DIMMS ranks or whatever on the same set of 3, only the SIZE has to match! 

 

And you are using the wrong language which doesn't help.

 

Your motherboard has 3 channels from RAM to the CPU.

 

When you add 3 more DIMMS, you are just adding load on the same three channels!

 

So the main concern is that all motherboards can exhibit instability when fully populated and the Sabertooth X58 has a reputation for being particularly finicky about that, so I been been giving you GOOD ADVICE on how to approach that.

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 05:56, Kloud77 said:

Not sure what your problem is exactly, but if you don't have the answer then you should get out. People have questions of mixing Single-Rank RAM and Dual-Rank RAM all the time. 

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You are simply wrong. You could easily mix those things in the original set of three. There are many more factors which would be important in creating a non-functioning RAM but this "rank" thing is highly unlikely to be it.

 

I really can;t help it if you have been reading bad info, but if you like the cargo cult mentality of those other places then maybe that is where to find the answer.

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 06:09, DevTech said:

You are simply wrong. You could easily mix those things in the original set of three. There are many more factors which would be important in creating a non-functioning RAM but this "rank" thing is highly unlikely to be it.

 

I really can;t help it if you have been reading bad info, but if you like the cargo cult mentality of those other places then maybe that is where to find the answer.

 

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You see? You have no idea what you are talking. You said I am simply wrong? Wrong about what? I didn't give any information so how can I be wrong... I am asking a question.

  On 25/11/2018 at 06:13, Kloud77 said:

You see? You have no idea what you are talking. You said I am simply wrong? Wrong about what? I didn't give any information so how can I be wrong... I am asking a question.

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You are wrong in thinking the question will affect whether you can have 6 DIMMs of different types working together in a stable manner on that motherboard.

 

If you buy 3 "single ranked" DIMMs you will have a "double ranked" DIMM and a "single ranked" DIMM sitting together on each of your 3 channels.

 

It may work or it may not, but it will have nothing to do with "single rank" or "double rank" and I have jumped past that right at the start to show you the set of steps to take in both selection and settings in the motherboard BIOS to increase your chances of success, but you keep returning to something that is the least likely factor to matter to the extent it is highly unlikely but NOBODY could say certainly one way or the other..

 

Your main issue will most likely be voltage so verifying your purchase can handle increased voltage should be the first priority.

 

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 06:29, DevTech said:

You are wrong in thinking the question will affect whether you can have 6 DIMMs of different types working together in a stable manner on that motherboard.

 

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See that's where you are wrong... Firstly, I am not using 6 different types. I am currently using the same three sticks of RAM in a Triple Channel. And the I am planning to buy another three sticks of RAM that will also be the same. So it's only two different types, one on each Triple Channel. And yes, asking this question does make sense because people have had trouble with using Single-Rank and Dual-Rank on the same motherboard before. And for the last time, I am asking a question. I did not say that "I think" it will affect anything... That's what I am asking: Will have it have an affect or not. So I don't see how I am wrong still... for asking a question?

  On 25/11/2018 at 06:50, Kloud77 said:

I think you are using the wrong language here. I am using 3 "single ranked" DIMMs in a Triple Channel. ASUS Sabertooth x58 can support Triple Channels.

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  On 25/11/2018 at 07:10, Kloud77 said:

See that's where you are wrong... Firstly, I am not using 6 different types. I am currently using the same three sticks of RAM in a Triple Channel. And the I am planning to buy another three sticks of RAM that will also be the same. So it's only two different types, one on each Triple Channel. And yes, asking this question does make sense because people have had trouble with using Single-Rank and Dual-Rank on the same motherboard before. And for the last time, I am asking a question. I did not say that "I think" it will affect anything... That's what I am asking: Will have it have an affect or not. So I don't see how I am wrong still... for asking a question?

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1. Lets assume we have a glitch or two with the use of English.

 

2.  I will accept your bestowed rank of "arrogant prick" if you will please just accept as a working hypothesis that I deeply know this stuff

 

3. I will try to explain things in more detail.

 

4. With very rare exceptions, rank corr responds to sides. If the DIMM PCB has memory chips only a single side it is a Single Rank or Single Side or SS. Similarly if memory chips are on BOTH sides of the DIMM PCB, then it is a Double Rank or Double Side or DS. So in the QVL for your mother board there is a SS or DS for each of the testest DIMMs    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_rank

 

5. When I reviewed your QVL, I could see no pattern between SS or DS and if the DIMM could function in all 6 slots or not.

 

6. A long long time ago in the design of motherboards the extra power consumption of a "dual rank" over a "single rank" and the extra electrical load of both ranks on the data bus meant that some motherboards specified 4 single rank DIMMs if the user intended to fill all 4 slots of a typical motherboard but that double rank DIMMs were OK for the first two slots.

 

7. The speed of memory access has gone up considerably since those days and so have the power requirements so you might notice that a modern motherboard has voltage converters scattered everywhere and there will be some dedicated to the DIMMs which in a sophisticated overclocking motherboard like the Sabertooth X58 will have Voltage adjustable in the BIOS to tweak as a needed to adjust to different DIMM types. So power is no longer an issue.

 

8. The speeds involved probably make electrical loading an issue but NOT in the manner of the ancient "Double Ranked DIMM loads down the data bus issue" but instead more of  an issue with the distance the signal electricity has to travel to reach an extra set of DIMMs. The distance of the signal on the motherboard has to be accounted for by shaping the timing of that signal to avoid transmission line type reflections. On a sophisticated motherboard, there will be BIOS settings to tweak this but from personal experience it is far too time consuming to live with a million blue screens while doing so and often just slowing down the RAM will work just as well.

 

9. So the reason that there is no answer to "rankness" and suitability is that it is just one factor out of many that could combine to make the RAM not compatible and as one of those many factors, it no longer typically comes up as an issue. It seems pretty much impossible that George Soros financed an invasion horde from Honduras to help elect Republicans but it is impossible for anyone without the resources of the CIA to actually answer that question.

 

10. The X58 has three channels from the CPU to the RAM. Currently you have one DIMM in each channel. There is no separate container for adding more DIMMs. Each one of the new DIMMS will add an electrical load to each channel and generally slow things down at a signal level and more importantly add a centimeter of signal travel to half the signals on each channel. If this is not handled correctly, you will have glitches that usually translate to instability or actual failure to operate at all.

 

11. The Sabertooth X58 appears to have a specific history of glitches with 6 DIMMs and so it would be sensible to proceed with caution. The QVL list appears to suggest this as well with a higher than normal voltage being specified for many of the 6 DIMM configurations.

 

12. As people have noted 6 identical DIMMs present the easiest path to fully populating the motherboard since they were most likely on the QVL list at time of first purchase and frankly if they didn't work at that time, they would have been instantly replaced with a different model of 6 DIMMs and so no problems to report and essentially it is simply not a useful data item.

 

13. There is no technical reason why 6 completely different DIMMs from different manufactures and different ranks and different speeds would not all work happily together in the motherboard provided everything is slowed down to the speed of the crankyest DIMM. And of course the chances of a stubborn "refuse to work"  DIMM increases a lot.

 

14. Given that there is an actual level of difficulty to jump from 2 DIMMs to 4 DIMMS on a "normal" motherboard and from 3 DIMMs to 6 DIMMs on your type of motherboard, and that most people don't read the QVL list and that most people don't understand any of these issues, it is simply a fact of internet forums that all sorts of crazy ideas are going to be put forth for why things don't work and RAM was returned to the vendor for another type of RAM when in the vast majority of cases timing and voltage could have been adjusted to make it work. That being said, I have encountered several cases where nothing at all works and some motherboards just don't like some RAM that other motherboards are perfectly happy with. I have never returned any RAM because I always knew it would work in one or another of my motherboards eventually.

 

15. It is almost NEVER possible to "just plug it in" and fully populate RAM years later without slowing down timing and increasing voltage and sometimes that applies to brand new as well.

 

16. The most exciting news about your ancient motherboard is that it will take 8 gig DIMMs for a total "modern sized" RAM of 48 gigs. That's just too cool! First gen i7 wasn't horrible so I would definitely do that even just to get a nice VM server...

 

 

 

 

 

QUESTION: Can I use Single Ranked RAM in one Channel and a Dual Ranked RAM in a separate Channel?

 

(I see things in many levels of gray and also I'm aware of all the many complexities of fully populating RAM and immediately translated that question into "How do I fill 6 slots?")

 

ANSWER: The shortest "black and white" answer is you can mix and match any brand, any rank/side type, and any speed in any of the channels as long as each lets call it a "color group" of THREE DIMMs are the SAME RAM SIZE and will safely accept higher than normal voltage.

 

For Example:  3 x 8 Gig DIMMs of any mix of rank and brand/model in one color of socket and 3 x 2 gig DIMMs of any mix of rank and brand/model in the other color of socket

 

WARNING: Possible side effects include higher heat dissipation due to increased voltage, slower RAM access due to lowered timings, unstable or erratic operation until timings and voltage are adjusted, complete failure to boot due to catch-22 of needing to adjust timings but needing to boot in order to do that, complete failure to boot if whatever RAM you buy is just plain stubborn, complete incompatibility due to rank mismatch if ASUS has borked BIOS code despite whatever DevTech told you, complete system failure and death if your are not experienced with low level BIOS adjustment and you muck with the wrong voltages. Please inform your family physician immediately if you experience any side effects.

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 07:10, Kloud77 said:

See that's where you are wrong... Firstly, I am not using 6 different types. I am currently using the same three sticks of RAM in a Triple Channel. And the I am planning to buy another three sticks of RAM that will also be the same. So it's only two different types, one on each Triple Channel. And yes, asking this question does make sense because people have had trouble with using Single-Rank and Dual-Rank on the same motherboard before. And for the last time, I am asking a question. I did not say that "I think" it will affect anything... That's what I am asking: Will have it have an affect or not. So I don't see how I am wrong still... for asking a question?

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Buy the RAM you want.  See if you have issues.  If not, good.  If you do, take out the 6GB and use the 12GB.  Done.

  • Like 1
  On 25/11/2018 at 19:38, farmeunit said:

Buy the RAM you want.  See if you have issues.  If not, good.  If you do, take out the 6GB and use the 12GB.  Done.

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^That. Don't bicker about what may happen. Just try it out for yourself.

 

You won't break your whole computer this way. It just will work, or... it won't.

 

Edit: and let us know what happens, please. :) 

Hello,

That's certainly possible, but I also know that there are enthusiasts who keep using and discussing products long after they have been obsoleted.  A good example is this 600+ message thread in ASUS' support forum on BIOS mods for their X79 chipset-based motherboards.  I wouldn't be surprised if something similar exists elsewhere for ASUS' X58 chipset-based motherboards, or on the X58 chipset itself.  

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 05:17, DevTech said:

The motherboard is so old that he is more likely to get good answers in old posts on Overclocking forums where they would have tried just about everything with it before moving on to THE NEXT GREATEST THING...

 

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Hello,

 

At this point, the best suggestion I can come up with is to try it and see what happens.  I see three possible scenarios:

 

  1. Everything works fine, and you now have a system with 18GB RAM [6GB OCZ (3x2GB) + 12GB Crucial (3x4GB) DDR3 DIMMs], which is triple the original amount of memory installed in the system.
     
  2. The OCZ and Crucial RAM do not work together, so you end up populating the system using just the Crucial DDR3 DIMMs, for a total of 12GB of RAM, which is double what was previously installed.

Even if the DIMMs are is not compatible, I do not think having the different types will cause any damage.  Just be prepared to power down immediately and remove the OCZ RAM.  You can later test each group of RAM separately to verify everything works, just not together. 

If the OCZ RAM does not work, I would suggest selling it on eBay.  It seems there are a few couple of used triple-channel OCZ 6GB DDR3 DIMM kits being sold for $20-30 on there.  This would allow you to recoup some of the costs of the Crucial memory, and you could put it towards purchasing another 12GB kit, to bring the ASUS Sabertooth X58 system up to 24GB.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 05:34, Kloud77 said:

Thank you. You seem to understand my question perfectly. But unfortunately, OCZ doesn't make the RAM I am currently using anymore, so I cannot get another three sticks of it. Another question is, do motherboards usually support cohabitation of single-ranked and dual-ranked memory modules in separate channels or is this a special feature for some motherboards?

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  On 25/11/2018 at 19:38, farmeunit said:

Buy the RAM you want.  See if you have issues.  If not, good.  If you do, take out the 6GB and use the 12GB.  Done.

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  On 25/11/2018 at 20:36, Mindovermaster said:

^That. Don't bicker about what may happen. Just try it out for yourself.

 

You won't break your whole computer this way. It just will work, or... it won't.

 

Edit: and let us know what happens, please. :) 

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  On 25/11/2018 at 21:31, goretsky said:

Hello,

 

At this point, the best suggestion I can come up with is to try it and see what happens.  I see three possible scenarios:

 

  1. Everything works fine, and you now have a system with 18GB RAM [6GB OCZ (3x2GB) + 12GB Crucial (3x4GB) DDR3 DIMMs], which is triple the original amount of memory installed in the system.
     
  2. The OCZ and Crucial RAM do not work together, so you end up populating the system using just the Crucial DDR3 DIMMs, for a total of 12GB of RAM, which is double what was previously installed.

Even if the DIMMs are is not compatible, I do not think having the different types will cause any damage.  Just be prepared to power down immediately and remove the OCZ RAM.  You can later test each group of RAM separately to verify everything works, just not together. 

If the OCZ RAM does not work, I would suggest selling it on eBay.  It seems there are a few couple of used triple-channel OCZ 6GB DDR3 DIMM kits being sold for $20-30 on there.  This would allow you to recoup some of the costs of the Crucial memory, and you could put it towards purchasing another 12GB kit, to bring the ASUS Sabertooth X58 system up to 24GB.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

 

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You all missed the fact that I suggested this idea way back and he rejected it.

 

He wants an unambiguous answer about work or not work and he won't accept that we can't guarantee that, despite being given a long list (very long) of ways in which it could possibly fail and there are even more I did not touch upon.

 

Most likely it will work or he can tweak BIOS to make it work but that might require learning things...

 

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 22:36, DevTech said:

 

 

You all missed the fact that I suggested this idea way back and he rejected it.

 

He wants an unambiguous answer about work or not work and he won't accept that we can't guarantee that, despite being given a long list (very long) of ways in which it could possibly fail and there are even more I did not touch upon.

 

Most likely it will work or he can tweak BIOS to make it work but that might require learning things...

 

 

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We're just repeating it for him. In different words so he will understand. ;) 

  On 25/11/2018 at 21:16, goretsky said:

Hello,

That's certainly possible, but I also know that there are enthusiasts who keep using and discussing products long after they have been obsoleted.  A good example is this 600+ message thread in ASUS' support forum on BIOS mods for their X79 chipset-based motherboards.  I wouldn't be surprised if something similar exists elsewhere for ASUS' X58 chipset-based motherboards, or on the X58 chipset itself.  

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

 

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I think you misunderstood my point which is almost the same thing you are saying here.

 

I was saying that official channels would just cart out and repeat whatever the "party line" was way back then, but enthusiasts would have explored every option and from the links I provide it was determined that the DIMM slots will accept fully populated 8 gig modules for a total of 48 gig of RAM.

 

The last phrase about "moving on to the next greatest thing" was just my typical attempt at humor. As you have said here, it would not surprise me if there is still a stalwart group of dedicated individuals still discussing that board.

 

Once you have 48 gigs in it, I would imagine the next challenge would be to try and close the performance gap with the 2XXX series i7 somehow.

 

  On 25/11/2018 at 22:39, Mindovermaster said:

We're just repeating it for him. In different words so he will understand. ;) 

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Why, thank you all for that.

 

In retrospect, I probably should have taken a drawing program and made a diagram - picture is worth a thousand words - to explain "channels" and that the all of the 3 new RAM DIMMs are electrically getting plugged in parallel with each of the existing 3 DIMMS and there is NO isolation of the 3 new ones into some sort of "rank" container.

 

  • Haha 1
  On 25/11/2018 at 22:43, DevTech said:

I think you misunderstood my point which is almost the same thing you are saying here.

 

I was saying that official channels would just cart out and repeat whatever the "party line" was way back then, but enthusiasts would have explored every option and from the links I provide it was determined that the DIMM slots will accept fully populated 8 gig modules for a total of 48 gig of RAM.

 

The last phrase about "moving on to the next greatest thing" was just my typical attempt at humor. As you have said here, it would not surprise me if there is still a stalwart group of dedicated individuals still discussing that board.

 

Once you have 48 gigs in it, I would imagine the next challenge would be to try and close the performance gap with the 2XXX series i7 somehow.

 

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But it does make me remember that I wanted to look into something with lots of RAM sockets.

 

So that era had 3 channel RAM and then typical consumer motherboards returned to dual channel with 4 DIMM sockets but the channel thing kept going:

 

LGA 2011-1 to LGA 2011-3 are 4 channel RAM

 

LGA 2066 is 4 channel RAM

 

LGA 3647 is 6 channel RAM

 

SO far I am only seeing motherboards with single banks but with DDR4 you can get 64 gig DIMMs so:

 

- 4 x 64 = 256 gigs on a 2066

 

- 6 x 64 = 384 gigs on a 3647

 

and dual socket is common on 3647 so

 

- 12 x 64 = 768 gigs on a dual socket 3647 motherboard

 

hmmm... tasty indeed...

 

  On 26/11/2018 at 00:37, Mindovermaster said:

Wanna buy me that? :laugh: 

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Me stumbles around like Cookie Monster... Me wants that... Me wanders off mumblung... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 

  • Haha 1
  On 26/11/2018 at 00:52, DevTech said:

Me stumbles around like Cookie Monster... Me wants that... Me wanders off mumblung... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 768 gigs... 

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More like Pac-Man....

  • 1 year later...

Wow. I searched for “mix dual and single rank ram” on google and found this argument in 5th place.

 

OP’s question is genuine and one specific person not being helpful at all, more wanting to vomit their know-how about the intricacies.

 

in the hope of restoring my faith in humanity, please could someone answer the question?  
 

If I install single and dual rank ram in the same mobo, will it work?

 

Please pick one of the answers:

1. yes

2. no

3. maybe

 

if the answer is maybe, please give approximate %probability of it working and how much tinkering I’m likely to need to do, on average.

 

I’m optimistic.  I am a professional embedded hardware engineer and have no issue getting knee deep in the weeds if that’s really necessary, but I strongly suspect that mobo /ram manufacturers want it to be easy as possible, meaning it’s a wiser use of  my time to just try it.

 

Thanks!
 

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