Star Trek: Picard (CBS All Access)

[+primortal Subscriber²]

On 05/04/2022 at 15:45, George P said:

 

What no Wil Wheaton 😛

[Steven P. Administrators]

Food for thought:

 

[George P Global Moderator]

What does he mean every single one?  We've seen a few at different times but to say every male isn't something we can agree with. 

 

Also, clones. 

[George P Global Moderator]

Episode 7 was pretty solid, and emotional.  We've also got a interesting Voyager tie-in going on.  Besides 7 ofc.

[Emn1ty]

Spoiler

This show is honestly falling apart. It's more interested in hamfisted storytelling than being coherent. They constantly break their own rule of not making changes to history, and consistently make mistakes that cause them problems they could have avoided all so they can have these contrived little scenes they want to have.

 

The most recent episode brought back something annoyed me quite heavily, that the characters somehow have on-hand knowledge about everyday items that are 300+ years old (Cell phones, in this case. Before it was street lights).

 

The real issue is none of what is happening in the show has anything to do with each other. It's completely disjointed and full of mcguffins that move the plot along. I'm curious where this will all end, mostly just because the writing is so bad. The only good scene in the entire show was Picard talking to Picard about her fears. It felt good and genuine. Everything else in this show is stupid.

• Jurati getting taken over by the queen because she's stupid and got close to someone who we absolutely know can assimilate on touch!!!
• Raffi being a manipulative narcissist, saying she's the "main character" in Picard's show, and then even when she admits to being manipulative (and objecting to everything for basically no reason) she uses that to further manipulate with the most transparent manipulation ever.
• Rios doing everything in his power to break the timeline (falling in love with a woman he's known for like... two days and then bringing her onto his ship).
• Seven also doing everything she can to break the timeline (car chase through L.A., beaming out in front of all the cops)
• The Borg Queen, who was complaining about the timeline being broken, is doing everything she can to break a timeline she wanted repaired as well.

Not everyone hates this show, but it's all but forgotten it's even Star Trek. It's just an excuse to talk about modern issues with the guise it's Trek. They aren't even going to mention the Bell Riots. They're just going to ignore those cause it's not Trek.

 

[+Edouard Subscriber²]

On 23/04/2022 at 15:00, Emn1ty said:

  Reveal hidden contents

This show is honestly falling apart. It's more interested in hamfisted storytelling than being coherent. They constantly break their own rule of not making changes to history, and consistently make mistakes that cause them problems they could have avoided all so they can have these contrived little scenes they want to have.

 

The most recent episode brought back something annoyed me quite heavily, that the characters somehow have on-hand knowledge about everyday items that are 300+ years old (Cell phones, in this case. Before it was street lights).

 

The real issue is none of what is happening in the show has anything to do with each other. It's completely disjointed and full of mcguffins that move the plot along. I'm curious where this will all end, mostly just because the writing is so bad. The only good scene in the entire show was Picard talking to Picard about her fears. It felt good and genuine. Everything else in this show is stupid.

• Jurati getting taken over by the queen because she's stupid and got close to someone who we absolutely know can assimilate on touch!!!
• Raffi being a manipulative narcissist, saying she's the "main character" in Picard's show, and then even when she admits to being manipulative (and objecting to everything for basically no reason) she uses that to further manipulate with the most transparent manipulation ever.
• Rios doing everything in his power to break the timeline (falling in love with a woman he's known for like... two days and then bringing her onto his ship).
• Seven also doing everything she can to break the timeline (car chase through L.A., beaming out in front of all the cops)
• The Borg Queen, who was complaining about the timeline being broken, is doing everything she can to break a timeline she wanted repaired as well.

Not everyone hates this show, but it's all but forgotten it's even Star Trek. It's just an excuse to talk about modern issues with the guise it's Trek. They aren't even going to mention the Bell Riots. They're just going to ignore those cause it's not Trek.

 

Damn! It's just a tv show devised for entertainment. 

 

You're taking it far to seriously. Just relax man. They are looking for new viewers and not just hard core Trekkers.

 

May I suggest you go outside and feel the Sun on your face. Listen to the birds sing and feel the soothing breeze in your hair.

 

Now go back inside and enjoy the ride that is Picard...You're welcome.

[George P Global Moderator]

On 23/04/2022 at 08:00, Emn1ty said:

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This show is honestly falling apart. It's more interested in hamfisted storytelling than being coherent. They constantly break their own rule of not making changes to history, and consistently make mistakes that cause them problems they could have avoided all so they can have these contrived little scenes they want to have.

 

The most recent episode brought back something annoyed me quite heavily, that the characters somehow have on-hand knowledge about everyday items that are 300+ years old (Cell phones, in this case. Before it was street lights).

 

The real issue is none of what is happening in the show has anything to do with each other. It's completely disjointed and full of mcguffins that move the plot along. I'm curious where this will all end, mostly just because the writing is so bad. The only good scene in the entire show was Picard talking to Picard about her fears. It felt good and genuine. Everything else in this show is stupid.

• Jurati getting taken over by the queen because she's stupid and got close to someone who we absolutely know can assimilate on touch!!!
• Raffi being a manipulative narcissist, saying she's the "main character" in Picard's show, and then even when she admits to being manipulative (and objecting to everything for basically no reason) she uses that to further manipulate with the most transparent manipulation ever.
• Rios doing everything in his power to break the timeline (falling in love with a woman he's known for like... two days and then bringing her onto his ship).
• Seven also doing everything she can to break the timeline (car chase through L.A., beaming out in front of all the cops)
• The Borg Queen, who was complaining about the timeline being broken, is doing everything she can to break a timeline she wanted repaired as well.

Not everyone hates this show, but it's all but forgotten it's even Star Trek. It's just an excuse to talk about modern issues with the guise it's Trek. They aren't even going to mention the Bell Riots. They're just going to ignore those cause it's not Trek.

 

Treks always talked about modern issues though.  The difference here is that those were spaced out and episodic in nature.  But the core of trek is morality plays on different topics in society.    You make it sound like it's new to the shows now, that's not the case though.  It's like the people I see hate on the newer shows because they're "woke".  Which leaves me scratching my head since Trek has always been woke (progressive) since TOS.   

 

 

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 23/04/2022 at 10:46, George P said:

Treks always talked about modern issues though.  The difference here is that those were spaced out and episodic in nature.  But the core of trek is morality plays on different topics in society.    You make it sound like it's new to the shows now, that's not the case though.  It's like the people I see hate on the newer shows because they're "woke".  Which leaves me scratching my head since Trek has always been woke (progressive) since TOS.   

 

 

I disagree with that. Trek didn't go out of its way to be politically correct in its shows, imo "woke" is having more than half the main characters from a minority group just because it's politically correct to do it, or making such a big fuss about it, it becomes part of the storyline. Trek was progressive in that they had the first biracial on screen kiss (that isn't woke and hadn't been done to the death on other shows at that point) or casting a female captain of a starship in Voyager in the 90's... that wasn't woke either, it was among the firsts in television (for a large franchise and audiences).

 

Woke to me means having something shoved down your throat because that's the current politically correct thing to do, or people are loudly complaining about the need for more of it in Hollyweird or wherever. Now they are just going along with what most others are doing, making Seven bisexual when there was no hint of that on Voyager (but you're supposed to be born that way etc so it should have been apparent back then over the 5 seasons, remember that episode with Harry Kim?) So again this just feels like to me, "oh who else can we shoehorn this into?, for the stats ya know!"

 

It isn't new and that is why we had the "Token" character on South Park all those years ago at the end of the 90's because it has been going on for a long time now (then the name was changed to Tolkien, and viewers were shamed for their belief of the purpose of the character, which btw achieves its goal all over again).

 

This all doesn't spoil my enjoyment of Picard and I still watch it, but I am sad the writers can't come up with something new or unique and more real.

 

I guess I will (hopefully) enjoy the ST:NG reunion next season, maybe it will be the same crew in the alternate reality, if they don't fix it this season.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 23/04/2022 at 09:24, foolsfolly said:

Damn! It's just a tv show devised for entertainment. 

 

You're taking it far to seriously. Just relax man. They are looking for new viewers and not just hard core Trekkers.

 

May I suggest you go outside and feel the Sun on your face. Listen to the birds sing and feel the soothing breeze in your hair.

 

Now go back inside and enjoy the ride that is Picard...You're welcome.

I bet you'd change your tune if it were your favourite fandom getting dumped on by hacks.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 23/04/2022 at 09:46, George P said:

Treks always talked about modern issues though.  The difference here is that those were spaced out and episodic in nature.  But the core of trek is morality plays on different topics in society.    You make it sound like it's new to the shows now, that's not the case though.  It's like the people I see hate on the newer shows because they're "woke".  Which leaves me scratching my head since Trek has always been woke (progressive) since TOS.   

 

 

Sure it addresses issues, but when it did that in the past, it didn't disregard its own identity to do so and it had never been woke until STD got farted out of Kurtzman's backside..

[Guest]

Kinda weird how Picard is seemingly portrayed as an only child. Wouldn't have been so much had his brother not been so prominent in previous stories.

 

Just checked this out, apparently I'm not the only one to have noticed this glaring omission. It's his older brother at that, but I don't think he was supposed to be so much older that he wouldn't have been in his daily life when Picard was a child in season 2.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 23/04/2022 at 14:26, cacoe said:

Kinda weird how Picard is seemingly portrayed as an only child. Wouldn't have been so much had his brother not been so prominent in previous stories.

 

Just checked this out, apparently I'm not the only one to have noticed this glaring omission. It's his older brother at that, but I don't think he was supposed to be so much older that he wouldn't have been in his daily life when Picard was a child in season 2.

That's been bothering me as well...

[Emn1ty]

On 23/04/2022 at 01:24, foolsfolly said:

Damn! It's just a tv show devised for entertainment. 

 

You're taking it far to seriously. Just relax man. They are looking for new viewers and not just hard core Trekkers.

 

May I suggest you go outside and feel the Sun on your face. Listen to the birds sing and feel the soothing breeze in your hair.

 

Now go back inside and enjoy the ride that is Picard...You're welcome.

"It's just a TV show" is the kind of mentality that allows anything, garbage or otherwise, to be successful. I want competent writing otherwise it's a waste of my time. These people don't understand Star Trek at all and are simply recycling the same tired woke plots that have been shoe-horned into media for the last decade. It's ruining franchises left and right because more focus is being put on topics that audience has been beaten to death over rather than making it fit the actual source material.

The worst part is, 99% of what Picard covers has already been covered in some fashion if not multiple times in TNG, DS9 and Voyager.

May I suggest that you go and watch those series and see why this show is terrible and completely disrespects the source material.

 

On 23/04/2022 at 01:46, George P said:

Treks always talked about modern issues though.  The difference here is that those were spaced out and episodic in nature.  But the core of trek is morality plays on different topics in society.    You make it sound like it's new to the shows now, that's not the case though.  It's like the people I see hate on the newer shows because they're "woke".  Which leaves me scratching my head since Trek has always been woke (progressive) since TOS.   

Trek has been about issues. Not modern issues. There is subject matter covered in Trek that wasn't even on people's minds at the time. A great example is gender identity in the episode The Outcast in TNG. Not only does this cover gender identity and rights, and how government laws dictating what everyone's gender should be is bad; but it also shows the struggle with an outside entity and culture influencing the culture of another species and how it can have deep ramifications (for better or worse). All of that wrapped up in a single episode more elegantly than the entire series of Picard can handle.

It's not about "modern issues", it's about different cultures and ways of life clashing and the struggle to accept, understand and ultimately respect our differences. But Picard has zero respect for anything. It's just hamfisting and poor writing.

[George P Global Moderator]

On 23/04/2022 at 12:36, Steven P. said:

I disagree with that. Trek didn't go out of its way to be politically correct in its shows, imo "woke" is having more than half the main characters from a minority group just because it's politically correct to do it, or making such a big fuss about it, it becomes part of the storyline. Trek was progressive in that they had the first biracial on screen kiss (that isn't woke and hadn't been done to the death on other shows at that point) or casting a female captain of a starship in Voyager in the 90's... that wasn't woke either, it was among the firsts in television (for a large franchise and audiences).

 

Woke to me means having something shoved down your throat because that's the current politically correct thing to do, or people are loudly complaining about the need for more of it in Hollyweird or wherever. Now they are just going along with what most others are doing, making Seven bisexual when there was no hint of that on Voyager (but you're supposed to be born that way etc so it should have been apparent back then over the 5 seasons, remember that episode with Harry Kim?) So again this just feels like to me, "oh who else can we shoehorn this into?, for the stats ya know!"

 

It isn't new and that is why we had the "Token" character on South Park all those years ago at the end of the 90's because it has been going on for a long time now (then the name was changed to Tolkien, and viewers were shamed for their belief of the purpose of the character, which btw achieves its goal all over again).

 

This all doesn't spoil my enjoyment of Picard and I still watch it, but I am sad the writers can't come up with something new or unique and more real.

 

I guess I will (hopefully) enjoy the ST:NG reunion next season, maybe it will be the same crew in the alternate reality, if they don't fix it this season.

I don't feel like they're forcing anything.  Are there more minority and different sexuality characters in the new shows? Yes, because there's more of them in general.  Right now out in the world, in more high level positions.  You'd think a show that takes place in the future would take that into account instead of having 90% of the crew of a starship as white.   In the future open,  free and understanding society Trek goes with, none of the stuff you bring up as woke matters.  Gene himself wanted to add more homosexual characters into Trek but never got the chance, and this was back in the TNG timeframe.

 

And what does it matter in the end if Seven is bi now?  Not everyone is openly one way or the other from a young age. Lots of people change later in life.   I have a friend who went lesbian in her late 20s after going out with a few guys growing up.  

[FloatingFatMan]

On 23/04/2022 at 20:20, George P said:

And what does it matter in the end if Seven is bi now?  Not everyone is openly one way or the other from a young age. Lots of people change later in life.   I have a friend who went lesbian in her late 20s after going out with a few guys growing up. 

Seven's sexuality has literally nothing to do with why fans are angry.  The terrible writing and complete disrespect for the source material is why fans are angry.

[George P Global Moderator]

On 24/04/2022 at 08:09, FloatingFatMan said:

Seven's sexuality has literally nothing to do with why fans are angry.  The terrible writing and complete disrespect for the source material is why fans are angry.

So then why is this even being brought up by some?      I honestly see posts were all you have is someone screaming "woke" with very little context other than as a way to mask their homophobia or racism from what I can gather.   We can like or hate the plot and so on, it has it's problems,  seems clear they're focusing more on specific character arcs and forcing the seasons story to match when it should be the other way around.  In the end that's all subjective though.  Some hate it some like it, w/e.    Trek isn't new to plot errors, continuity slips, retcons, and dead/dropped plot lines that go nowhere though.  

[FloatingFatMan]

On 24/04/2022 at 19:10, George P said:

So then why is this even being brought up by some?      I honestly see posts were all you have is someone screaming "woke" with very little context other than as a way to mask their homophobia or racism from what I can gather.   We can like or hate the plot and so on, it has it's problems,  seems clear they're focusing more on specific character arcs and forcing the seasons story to match when it should be the other way around.  In the end that's all subjective though.  Some hate it some like it, w/e.    Trek isn't new to plot errors, continuity slips, retcons, and dead/dropped plot lines that go nowhere though.  

Well, there's a few I guess, but in my experience it's not the main issue that most fans seem to have, at least in my experience.

 

As for why it bothers so many people so much... Aer you familiar with the YouTuber, Blunty?  He posted this today which goes a long way to explain it that I'd not considered before...

 

 

[Dick Montage]

On 23/04/2022 at 10:36, Steven P. said:

Trek didn't go out of its way to be politically correct in its shows

Trek has ALWAYS gone out of its way to be representative of marginalised people and confrontational issues.

[George P Global Moderator]

On 25/04/2022 at 07:58, FloatingFatMan said:

Well, there's a few I guess, but in my experience it's not the main issue that most fans seem to have, at least in my experience.

 

As for why it bothers so many people so much... Aer you familiar with the YouTuber, Blunty?  He posted this today which goes a long way to explain it that I'd not considered before...

 

 

Not saying it's the main issue, just saying when it comes to Trek it shouldn't be a issue at all.  Not for a show that's made being progressive one of it's core pillars.   I just find it borderline dumb when I see posts like that.

 

As far as the shows go, Yeah, I agree they have problems.    Do they break things?  Yes.  But my counter to that is that Trek shows have been doing it before.   The difference here is that when you have a instance of it in the older shows, for the most part, it's maybe 1 or a few episodes in a season of 22+ episodic eps.   Back when voyager was crapping on lore/canon from time to time I don't know if the same fans who toss their arms up today and vent online did the same?     

 

I also can't agree with those who seem hell bent on the newer shows having to match the older aesthetics 1:1 from TOS or even TNG when technology we have today has moved on from the concepts they went with back then.    I don't see a issue with modernizing the tech and making it more futuristic compared with the ideas they came up with back in 68 or 87 etc.   But oh well, here we are and people hate the idea.

 

Either way, I guess you'll always find a group who hates any adaptation of something they like a lot.  For all the praise the expanse gets I remember those, even here, who didn't like the changes made compared to the books.  Same with Foundation, and the list goes on.     Overall the shows do fine as long as you get enough people to like and keep watching.  

 

While Discovery and Picard are rough, they're bringing in new fans at the least, which is something Trek has needed since Enterprise got canceled all that time ago.  I also very much enjoy Lower Decks, and I hear some good stuff about Prodigy though I haven't seen it.   Also from what I've seen so far SNW is going back to that original Trek alien of the week formula fans wanted.   We've never had so much Trek all at once before, so somethings working, and enough are watching, that Paramount is spending loads of cash to keep making more, and we all know it's not cheap to do.

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 25/04/2022 at 09:08, Dick Montage said:

Trek has ALWAYS gone out of its way to be representative of marginalised people and confrontational issues.

There's a difference with being "representative of marginalised people and confrontational issues" and doing it for politically correct reasons which in some cases is extremely obvious to the viewer, like that trash  "Discovery" is, which is also ruined by very bad acting.

[Dick Montage]

On 25/04/2022 at 09:37, Steven P. said:

There's a difference with being "representative of marginalised people and confrontational issues" and doing it for politically correct reasons which in some cases is extremely obvious to the viewer, like that trash  "Discovery" is, which is also ruined by very bad acting.

Which part of Discovery do you feel is "doing it for politically correct reasons which in some cases is extremely obvious to the viewer"?

 

I do agree on the acting however, nothing seems to carry any real weight, because nobody seems to be able to convey that appropriately.

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 25/04/2022 at 10:57, Dick Montage said:

Which part of Discovery do you feel is "doing it for politically correct reasons which in some cases is extremely obvious to the viewer"?

 

I do agree on the acting however, nothing seems to carry any real weight, because nobody seems to be able to convey that appropriately.

Nevermind, you seem to want to educate me on my personal views, which are subjective. I don't feel strongly enough about the issues I have to argue about them to you.

[Dick Montage]

On 25/04/2022 at 11:26, Steven P. said:

Nevermind, you seem to want to educate me on my personal views, which are subjective. I don't feel strongly enough about the issues I have to argue about them to you.

I feel you have misunderstood, misinterpreted or somehow been triggered by my question...

 

By asking which parts you feel are "doing it for politically correct reasons"?  Really?  You genuinely believe that by me asking this, so I can contextualise the point you're making - that I "want to educate [you]on my personal views"?

 

I was hoping that maybe you'd come back with some sort of contextual reference, such as the Male/Male relationship between the doctor and the engineer, the mixed-race/black relationship between the captain and Book, the gender-fluid Trill aspect, the "on the spectrum" girl with the frizzy hair who doesn't also conform to what we have seen as Star Trek body norms, the fact that a woman is president, a Hispanic runs Starfleet, the fact that everything in the galaxy revolves around 1 person, the integration of cybernetic enhancements into humans for medical purposes, the depiction of the heavens as being accessible to humans...  There are various aspects of Discovery that I can absolutely see that some people may be triggered by, and had hoped you'd be able to reference these to give some sort of context to your issues with the series.

 

But I mean, if not then... um...  OK...  I have no desire to "educate anyone on their own personal views", that sounds Orwellian and really arrogant - I just am trying to figure out what your "personal views" even are so as I can understand your post.  It was a question, and a genuine one - don't be scared to answer it - I'm just trying to understand!  You have a forum, it's literally YOUR forum - conversation happens.  People don't tend to make statements and that be the end of the conversation - especially over subjects like this.  I feel our views aren't even that different - so I'm trying to see what we agree and then perhaps disagree on?

[+Edouard Subscriber²]

On 24/04/2022 at 02:15, Emn1ty said:

"It's just a TV show" is the kind of mentality that allows anything, garbage or otherwise, to be successful. I want competent writing otherwise it's a waste of my time. These people don't understand Star Trek at all and are simply recycling the same tired woke plots that have been shoe-horned into media for the last decade"

 

"May I suggest that you go and watch those series and see why this show is terrible and completely disrespects the source material"

On 24/04/2022 at 02:15, Emn1ty said:

 

 

Woke...drink! Whenever I see that dog whistle being used it is obvious what it means for a certain group of people. Perhaps you would be more comfortable watching re-runs of Leave it to Beaver so to not offend your sensibilities.

 

I have been a life long fan of Star Trek. Clearly not a super fan like a couple of people here but still a fan. As I stated, they are looking for new viewers and not rusted on, crusty old people. Deal with it or stop watching, no one is holding a gun to your head.

[+primortal Subscriber²]

On 23/04/2022 at 01:00, Emn1ty said:

This show is honestly falling apart. It's more interested in hamfisted storytelling than being coherent. They constantly break their own rule of not making changes to history, and consistently make mistakes that cause them problems they could have avoided all so they can have these contrived little scenes they want to have.

 

The most recent episode brought back something annoyed me quite heavily, that the characters somehow have on-hand knowledge about everyday items that are 300+ years old (Cell phones, in this case. Before it was street lights).

Has there been a Star Trek series or movie that didn't break their own rules or established rules in not making changes to history?

 

For example, Star Trek The Voyage home

• Chekov left a Klingon phaser and communicator on a Navy ship

• Scotty intuitively knew how to use the software on the MAC to create the formula for transparent aluminum and let alone giving that advanced technology back than was a game changer

• Bones cured an older women of kidney disease

• The operating room scene with Chekov, Kirk using a phaser to lock the door, the device used to repair Chekov where everyone was able to witness it.  Kirk could have just easily stunned them all and no one would have been the wiser.

• No one saw Sulu in a Huey lowering down transparent aluminum into a cloaked ship in the park?

• I'll give a pass on the whaling ship seeing the Bird of Prey decloaking as them just being out in the sea too long.

 

On 23/04/2022 at 01:00, Emn1ty said:

• Jurati getting taken over by the queen because she's stupid and got close to someone who we absolutely know can assimilate on touch!!!
• Raffi being a manipulative narcissist, saying she's the "main character" in Picard's show, and then even when she admits to being manipulative (and objecting to everything for basically no reason) she uses that to further manipulate with the most transparent manipulation ever.
• Rios doing everything in his power to break the timeline (falling in love with a woman he's known for like... two days and then bringing her onto his ship).
• Seven also doing everything she can to break the timeline (car chase through L.A., beaming out in front of all the cops)
• The Borg Queen, who was complaining about the timeline being broken, is doing everything she can to break a timeline she wanted repaired as well.

• That's just stupidity on her part.  Just like it was stupid for Star Fleet to use Borg technology in their ships.  I wouldn't be surprised that Borg Queen from the beginning of the season was Jurati.  Plus, I want to know why they were called Legion.
• That's who she is.  I don't see how this is a problem with a character who is a narcissist and being called out on it.
• Love makes people do stupid things.  His and Jarati's relationship left him wanting...
• You know the whole beaming out will just be brushed off and "you're seeing things" or special effects on a video.  Look at all the stuff being done on TicTok today.
• Does she really want to repair the timeline or was she just saying that to give them a false sense of helping?  The Borg queen did go back in time in First Contact to try to take over the earth, why not go back earlier and try again?