adrynalyne Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) On 16/02/2024 at 10:31, DocM said: Stainless steel retains its anti-corrosion properties because of a chromium oxide layer that forms on the surface. If this erodes, iron crystals are exposed which can cause the rust marks. The cause is usually exposure to chlorine compounds, such as road salt or salt spray near the coast. Another problem can be community water supplies which use a stronger than usual chlorination. This is common to stainless steels, and well-documented including in the Tesla and rest of the world. The correction is a process called passivation. The area is cleaned and rinsed thoroughly, then the rust marks removed using a Scotch-Brite pad moving with the grain. Next you mix up some citric acid {commercial available} and coat the area, leaving it to sit. Commercially, they use a weak nitric acid. Either will regenerate the chromium oxide layer. To reduce such instances, go get a clear wrap applied. File under lost generational knowledge. Previous generations knew how to do passivation because stainless steel sinks and other goods are also subject to chromium oxide layer erosion. It's why kitchen sponges have a Scotch-Brite pad. One would like to think that for the cost of that vehicle, it would have been done by Tesla as a standard feature. I guess this didn't fall under their testing parameters, and if it didn't, what else did they miss? File under, company screwing over customers. On 16/02/2024 at 13:54, FloatingFatMan said: So what you're saying is that Musk is unable to figure out how to do something EVERY SINGLE OTHER car maker around the world has been doing for generations? Sounds about right! I can't believe they didn't test this beforehand. +hedleigh 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 On 16/02/2024 at 23:15, adrynalyne said: I can't believe they didn't test this beforehand. You're talking about a company that can't even fix panel gaps in their production line... +hedleigh, SecretAgentMan, +Matthew S. and 1 other 4 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 On 16/02/2024 at 16:17, FloatingFatMan said: You're talking about a company that can't even fix panel gaps in their production line... But but but...its within industry tolerances! +Raze, FloatingFatMan, +hedleigh and 4 others 7 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 (edited) On 16/02/2024 at 18:15, adrynalyne said: One would like to think that for the cost of that vehicle, it would have been done by Tesla as a standard feature. I guess this didn't fall under their testing parameters, and if it didn't, what else did they miss? File under, company screwing over customers. I can't believe they didn't test this beforehand. The Motor Trend article indicates that it was probably rail dust eroding the surface during shipment, exposing the iron crystals on some vehicles and allowing them to corrode. Rail dust is iron powder kicked up by train wheels & rails, and it's very abrasive. Spitballing it, trains passing each other would probably exhibit maximum effect. Motor Trend also indicates it is not a widespread problem. Heading another color issue off at the pass; high heat can also cause stainless steel to turn purple or dark blue. The fix, again, is passivation. When Starship comes back from reentry, it will exhibit this effect. Same steel, produced for Tesla and SpaceX by Outokumpu, Also note, Tesla sells wraps with their vehicles for added protection - most exterior panels being aluminum - and stainless steel or aluminum are increasingly used in automotive construction including the frame (most automakers are moving to cast aluminum frames, and stainless is already in wide use in cars). https://www.motortrend.com/news/teslcybertruck-rust-reports-analysis/#:~:text=They make it seem like,stainless steel%2C resistant to corrosion! Edited February 17 by DocM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) On 16/02/2024 at 21:28, DocM said: The Motor Trend article indicates that it was probably rail dust eroding the surface during shipment, exposing the iron crystals on some vehicles and allowing them to corrode. Rail dust is iron powder kicked up by train wheels & rails, and it's very abrasive. Spitballing it, trains passing each other would probably exhibit maximum effect. Motor Trend also indicates it is not a widespread problem. Heading another color issue off at the pass; high heat can also cause stainless steel to turn purple or dark blue. The fix, again, is passivation. Also note, Tesla sells wraps with their vehicles for added protection - most exterior panels being aluminum - and stainless steel or aluminum are increasingly used in automotive construction including the frame (most automakers are moving to cast aluminum frames, and stainless is already in wide use in cars). https://www.motortrend.com/news/teslcybertruck-rust-reports-analysis/#:~:text=They make it seem like,stainless steel%2C resistant to corrosion! 1. It doesn’t matter what caused it, it’s not the customers fault and it shouldn’t have been that simple to cause regardless if it’s only some and lets be honest, how many are actually out there right now to shrug it off as no big deal? How come this is primarily a problem with just the CT? 2. It doesn’t matter if Tesla sells wraps out not, they should be offering it standard for the cost of six figure vehicle prone to rust. 3. For a vehicle that’s been advertised as so tough, it’s pretty funny to see it…rust. Seriously, with how it’s advertised, why would a customer think it needs extra protection??? 4. How many salespeople at Tesla advertised the CT as being able to rust under certain conditions? I bet….0. Edited February 17 by adrynalyne margrave and +primortal 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 (edited) On 16/02/2024 at 23:42, adrynalyne said: 1. It doesn’t matter what caused it, it’s not the customers fault and it shouldn’t have been that simple to cause regardless if it’s only some and lets be honest, how many are actually out there right now to shrug it off as no big deal? How come this is primarily a problem with just the CT? We probably won't know the production until the end of the quarter, but full ramp for the Austin, Texas factory would be 250,000/yr. There's a pure based on past ramps, 3,000 a week starting in December. The just starting construction Monterrey, Mexico factory should greatly increase this. It'll also build the Semi and "Model 2". M2 may or may not be in the Cyber family. On 16/02/2024 at 23:42, adrynalyne said: 2. It doesn’t matter if Tesla sells wraps out not, they should be offering it standard for the cost of six figure vehicle prone to rust. None of this has been top secret, it's been widely discussed along with the need for occasional passivation since the announcement and wraps are recommended. Let's be honest, to prevent paint from degrading we put a lot of effort into washing and waxing our vehicles, especially salty environments like the coasts and here in Winter country where salt is used on the roads. SSDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 On 16/02/2024 at 18:19, adrynalyne said: But but but...its within industry tolerances! Panel gap on a Ford truck is frequently up to b15 mm, and I know guys who have had their F-150 gaps adjusted almost yearly. It don't stick. Tesla standard is no more than 8 mm. Above that they will service it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 16/02/2024 at 22:26, DocM said: Panel gap on a Ford truck is frequently up to b15 mm, and I know guys who have had their F-150 gaps adjusted almost yearly. It don't stick. Tesla standard is no more than 8 mm. Above that they will service it. What about what about what about. WTF does Ford have to do with CT or Musk? FloatingFatMan, +Raze, SecretAgentMan and 1 other 4 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) On 16/02/2024 at 22:02, DocM said: We probably won't know the production until the end of the quarter, but full ramp for the Austin, Texas factory would be 250,000/yr. There's a pure based on past ramps, 3,000 a week starting in December. The just starting construction Monterrey, Mexico factory should greatly increase this. It'll also build the Semi and "Model 2". M2 may or may not be in the Cyber family. None of this has been top secret, it's been widely discussed along with the need for occasional passivation since the announcement and wraps are recommended. Let's be honest, to prevent paint from degrading we put a lot of effort into washing and waxing our vehicles, especially salty environments like the coasts and here in Winter country where salt is used on the roads. SSDD It doesn’t matter how many will be made in a year. What matters is how many this is happening to vs how many are currently out there in the wild. Let’s be honest, companies don’t make stainless steel vehicles for this very reason, well that and cost. What’s the point of using some expensive material to make your vehicle if it cannot withstand a car wash without rusting? This is not SSDD, because painted vehicles can be washed without risk of rust spots. Even if it was SSDD, then it would mean that this “high-tech” material the CT was built with was what many of us suspected, a publicity stunt. Worse, it can’t even be safely washed. I could chalk this up to first gen issues, which we see everywhere. You are actually defending it and think it’s fine though. None of this is top secret? Way to blame the consumer. Hop off Daddy Musk’s lap, it’s gross. I hope Tesla rights this wrong and provides a coating, free of charge. Edited February 17 by adrynalyne +hedleigh 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 17/02/2024 at 06:42, adrynalyne said: Worse, it can’t even be safely washed. Forget washing, you can't even drive the things in the rain without them screwing up... https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-couple-fume-handed-17k-27906242 On 17/02/2024 at 06:42, adrynalyne said: Hop off Daddy Musk’s lap, it’s gross. I've never understood people who white knight for corporations. Don't they realise the corp doesn't give 2 cents about them, doesn't even know they exist? On 17/02/2024 at 06:42, adrynalyne said: I hope Tesla rights this wrong and provides a coating, free of charge. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! +hedleigh and SecretAgentMan 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Matthew S. Subscriber² Posted February 17 Subscriber² Share Posted February 17 Cause supposedly big corp wont screw you like uncle sam will 🙃 +hedleigh 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) On 17/02/2024 at 00:10, FloatingFatMan said: Forget washing, you can't even drive the things in the rain without them screwing up... https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-couple-fume-handed-17k-27906242 I've never understood people who white knight for corporations. Don't they realise the corp doesn't give 2 cents about them, doesn't even know they exist? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, I know. It’s not going to happen. Re: article, WTF? +hedleigh 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 17/02/2024 at 07:13, Matthew S. said: Cause supposedly big corp wont screw you like uncle sam will 🙃 I have this bridge for sale, only 1 careful owner... margrave, +Matthew S. and Steven P. 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+primortal Subscriber² Posted February 17 Subscriber² Share Posted February 17 On 16/02/2024 at 23:28, DocM said: The Motor Trend article indicates that it was probably rail dust eroding the surface during shipment, exposing the iron crystals on some vehicles and allowing them to corrode. Rail dust is iron powder kicked up by train wheels & rails, and it's very abrasive. Spitballing it, trains passing each other would probably exhibit maximum effect. Motor Trend also indicates it is not a widespread problem. Did they think to “shrink wrap” the vehicles to prevent this? I see this all the time on car carriers on the highway. General question, did the DeLorean‘s rust? Mods: can these be moved to the Cyber Truck thread? adrynalyne and margrave 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 17/02/2024 at 08:19, primortal said: Did they think to “shrink wrap” the vehicles to prevent this? I see this all the time on car carriers on the highway. General question, did the DeLorean‘s rust? Mods: can these be moved to the Cyber Truck thread? A general Google search reveals that Deloreans did not rust. At least not their stainless panels. Which makes all this even more amusing. There might be some cases out there but I didn’t see them. +primortal and margrave 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayZJay Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) Glad to see the usual crew of know-it-alls are here countering anything said with their negative viewpoint. How dare anyone offer an opinion that is neutral, pro-Tesla, or simply facts. We can't have that. All comments must be negative, complaining, or in some way bashing any and all things related to Tesla or Cybertruck. For good measure, the aforementioned know-it-alls usually are all too willing to bring up Musk or even Trump as well. They can't miss an opportunity to bash on them. +Warwagon 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) On 17/02/2024 at 18:29, JayZJay said: Glad to see the usual crew of know-it-alls are here countering anything said with their negative viewpoint. How dare anyone offer an opinion that is neutral, pro-Tesla, or simply facts. We can't have that. All comments must be negative, complaining, or in some way bashing any and all things related to Tesla or Cybertruck. For good measure, the aforementioned know-it-alls usually are all too willing to bring up Musk or even Trump as well. They can't miss an opportunity to bash on them. Oh look, the Musk lackey has returned. Not sure how or why anyone would spin a positive on a truck rusting from rain or washing. pmrd 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigmatic Irreverence Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 On 18/02/2024 at 01:29, JayZJay said: Glad to see the usual crew of know-it-alls are here countering anything said with their negative viewpoint. How dare anyone offer an opinion that is neutral, pro-Tesla, or simply facts. We can't have that. All comments must be negative, complaining, or in some way bashing any and all things related to Tesla or Cybertruck. For good measure, the aforementioned know-it-alls usually are all too willing to bring up Musk or even Trump as well. They can't miss an opportunity to bash on them. And why exactly would they not given the daily bountiful receipts both offer up so freely in order to do exact that? Or should we just allow those who do nothing other than promise others they shall soon hit a ball to the moon with their own brand of bat in hand only to ever consistently falter and splutter accumulating yet more non-delivery. Such continued poor form ie untethered unchecked some would say unhinged types tend to typically and rightfully draw in that form of criticism. The opportunity to bash so often comes about due to the necessary reasonings to do so and there's more than enough to go around in that regard and they themselves create that very negative viewpoint on a daily basis often umpteen times a day. +Raze and +primortal 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337ish Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) On 18/02/2024 at 01:29, JayZJay said: Glad to see the usual crew of know-it-alls are here countering anything said with their positive viewpoint. How dare anyone offer an opinion that is neutral, against Tesla, or simply facts. We can't have that. All comments must be positive, simping musk, or in some way glorifying any and all things related to Tesla or Cybertruck. For good measure, the aforementioned know-it-alls usually are all too willing to bring up its the owners fault as well. They can't miss an opportunity to bash on them. Fixed that for you.... the usuals all turn up to simp musk if anything bad is said about him or anything he fecks up. adrynalyne, +hedleigh, +Matthew S. and 3 others 6 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 (edited) On 16/02/2024 at 15:54, FloatingFatMan said: So what you're saying is that Musk is unable to figure out how to do something EVERY SINGLE OTHER car maker around the world has been doing for generations? Sounds about right! Apparently the rust dust, also known as rail dust because of its association with train tracks, is the main problem. It can settle on vehicles during rail transport, or get on a vehicle just driving it on the road - it can come off of brake drums and discs when they are used and collects around the road. Also, it often collects on other vehicles but particularly shows up on white and silver cars. Tesla recommends using a blue Scotch Brite, and cleaning with either Bartender's Friend or Citrisurf 77 - which is a passivation cleaner for stainless steel. About $7 on Amazon for the consumer version, a bit more for the pro version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 19/02/2024 at 12:24, DocM said: Apparently the rust dust, also known as rail dust because of its association with train tracks, is the main problem. It can settle on vehicles during rail transport, or get on a vehicle just driving it on the road - it can come off of brake drums and discs when they are used and collects around the road. Also, it often collects on other vehicles but particularly shows up on white and silver cars. Tesla recommends using a blue Scotch Brite, and cleaning with either Bartender's Friend or Citrisurf 77 - which is a passivation cleaner for stainless steel. About $7 on Amazon for the consumer version, a bit more for the pro version. Why isn’t Tesla wrapping their CTs during transport? +hedleigh, Steven P. and +primortal 2 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 19/02/2024 at 19:24, DocM said: Apparently the rust dust, also known as rail dust because of its association with train tracks, is the main problem. It can settle on vehicles during rail transport, or get on a vehicle just driving it on the road - it can come off of brake drums and discs when they are used and collects around the road. Also, it often collects on other vehicles but particularly shows up on white and silver cars. Tesla recommends using a blue Scotch Brite, and cleaning with either Bartender's Friend or Citrisurf 77 - which is a passivation cleaner for stainless steel. About $7 on Amazon for the consumer version, a bit more for the pro version. Nope. It's totally on Tesla to make sure their vehicles don't corrode 5 minutes out of the damn factory. Quit white knighting Doc, it's pathetic. +hedleigh, Steven P., +primortal and 1 other 3 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 (edited) On 19/02/2024 at 16:55, FloatingFatMan said: Nope. It's totally on Tesla to make sure their vehicles don't corrode 5 minutes out of the damn factory. Quit white knighting Doc, it's pathetic. It's not the Cybertruck that's corroding, it's iron dust (a component of road dust) that is falling on the vehicle. Sometimes it's from shipping by rail, but iron dust is also deposited on every road - particles that come off of disc rotors and drums which settle around the road are most common. There's so much of it that it's becoming a medical issue, in no small part because of the metal contained therein. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30499095/#:~:text=There are several sources in,as the dominant metallic element. " There are several sources in road traffic which generate road dust particles, including exhaust and non-exhaust processes. Some of them (e.g., brake wear) produce iron as the dominant metallic element" Microscopic they are, so they look like the rest of the road-dust but can corrode to brown. Most easily seen on light gray, white, and silver vehicles. ++++++++ Just for fun, Cybertrax Edited February 24 by DocM +Matthew S. 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 24/02/2024 at 18:42, DocM said: It's not the Cybertruck that's corroding, it's iron dust (a component of road dust) that is falling on the vehicle. Sometimes it's from shipping by rail, but iron dust is also deposited on every road - particles that come off of disc rotors and drums which settle around the road are most common. There's so much of it that it's becoming a medical issue, in no small part because of the metal contained therein. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30499095/#:~:text=There are several sources in,as the dominant metallic element. " There are several sources in road traffic which generate road dust particles, including exhaust and non-exhaust processes. Some of them (e.g., brake wear) produce iron as the dominant metallic element" Microscopic they are, so they look like the rest of the road-dust but can corrode to brown. Most easily seen on light gray, white, and silver vehicles. OK then Mr Genius White Knight. Please explain why this "iron dust" only seems to be a problem with Tesla's Cybertruck? Surely if what you claim is true, 1000's of non-Tesla vehicles would also be affected? Also, whilst you're at it, could you please show us on the bear below just where Musk touched you that caused such ridiculous blind loyalty? +primortal and +hedleigh 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+primortal Subscriber² Posted February 24 Subscriber² Share Posted February 24 On 24/02/2024 at 13:42, DocM said: It's not the Cybertruck that's corroding, it's iron dust (a component of road dust) that is falling on the vehicle. Wait, what? So wouldn’t rain/car wash remove it not contributing to it? +Matthew S., FloatingFatMan and +hedleigh 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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