Steven P. Administrators Posted October 31, 2022 Administrators Share Posted October 31, 2022 The account is gone https://mobile.twitter.com/marina_sirtis The ship's councilor has quit Twitter! Apparently forums are cool again! Although from looking at her site, she does not have one yet.. Depending on the traffic, forums can be quite server intensive as we ourselves have seen and experienced over the last 22 years. I assume they are ensuring that a forum won't crash the entire site's servers. Good luck to her, with what Elon Musk is doing right now over at Twitter, it remains to be seen if he has acquired a MySpace. Skyfrog, +primortal, Jack Wolfe and 7 others 8 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
vf- Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 09:09, Steven P. said: Apparently forums are cool again! I honestly don't know who she is. Never heard of her but I will say I miss the Internet era of 2000 - 2007. When the Internet wasn't an infested bile of social media where so many want to rip your throats out literally. The days before smart phones ruled people's lives. Remember those days things weren't as serious and personal nor were people as intrenched as they are today. Even so many forums nowadays there's almost no difference now between the tone and hostility of forums and social media sites because they've transferred their intolerance and hostility across every platform. The days when people could take jokes, shrug it off, laugh it off, move on with whatever it was. Or even saying, well we'll agree to disagree. There's a mob mentally that runs through everything nowadays. Now todays Internet era they want to destroy you. For what? Just so they can feel good about themselves or scoring virtual points behind their screens? Look how politicised everything is nowadays. There was a time to a degree I remember most didn't like to show their politics because most knew how toxic it is. Now they flaunt it like it's a promotion. A badge, an honour. The Internet wasn't perfect in the 2000s but it sure wasn't a crap fest that it has turned into today as you're now seeing the same rudeness, hostility and intolerance creeping through everything in real life as well with it. +primortal, Churma, Jack Wolfe and 10 others 13 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cork1958 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 10:38, vf- said: I honestly don't know who she is. Never heard of her but I will say I miss the Internet era of 2000 - 2007. When the Internet wasn't an infested bile of social media where so many want to rip your throats out literally. The days before smart phones ruled people's lives. Remember those days things weren't as serious and personal nor were people as intrenched as they are today. Even so many forums nowadays there's almost no difference now between the tone and hostility of forums and social media sites because they've transferred their intolerance and hostility across every platform. The days when people could take jokes, shrug it off, laugh it off, move on with whatever it was. Or even saying, well we'll agree to disagree. There's a mob mentally that runs through everything nowadays. Now todays Internet era they want to destroy you. For what? Just so they can feel good about themselves or scoring virtual points behind their screens? Look how politicised everything is nowadays. There was a time to a degree I remember most didn't like to show their politics because most knew how toxic it is. Now they flaunt it like it's a promotion. A badge, an honour. The Internet wasn't perfect in the 2000s but it sure wasn't a crap fest that it has turned into today as you're now seeing the same rudeness, hostility and intolerance creeping through everything in real life as well with it. Ah, the good old days!! FloatingFatMan, +primortal and nerim 3 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted October 31, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 15:38, vf- said: I honestly don't know who she is. Never heard of her but I will say I miss the Internet era of 2000 - 2007. When the Internet wasn't an infested bile of social media where so many want to rip your throats out literally. Marina Sirtis is known for playing Deanna Troi from Star Trek: The Next Generation, an American science fiction television series created by Gene Roddenberry. It originally aired from September 28, 1987 to May 23, 1994 in syndication, spanning 178 episodes over seven seasons. She reprised her role as Deanna in the films following the series: Star Trek Generations (1994), Star Trek: First Contact (1996), Star Trek: Insurrection (1998), and Star Trek: Nemesis (2002), and in the television series Star Trek: Picard (2020–present). She is married to William Riker and they live on the planet Nepenthe with their one surviving child, Kestra (Thaddeus died of Mendaxic neurosclerosis, which could have been cured with a positronic matrix had the Federation not imposed a ban on synthetic lifeforms after the 2385 Attack on Mars.) Hope this helps nerim, Jack Wolfe and xrobwx71 2 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsupersonic Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Who? +E.Worm Jimmy and AMPSV 1 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) On 31/10/2022 at 09:38, vf- said: Now todays Internet era they want to destroy you. For what? Just so they can feel good about themselves or scoring virtual points behind their screens? Look how politicised everything is nowadays. There was a time to a degree I remember most didn't like to show their politics because most knew how toxic it is. Now they flaunt it like it's a promotion. A badge, an honour. The Internet wasn't perfect in the 2000s but it sure wasn't a crap fest that it has turned into today as you're now seeing the same rudeness, hostility and intolerance creeping through everything in real life as well with it. That's exactly the monster that social media has morphed into. It's a giant political weapon and people can't agree about anything anymore. The govt can't legally silence people, but social media can. "Fact checking" is less about facts and more about blue vs red ideology. Keyboard warriors have always been a problem going back to the earliest forums and instant messenger days, but the difference today is that every stupid thing posted on social media can be seen instantly around the world, and an angry mob can be deployed to your doorstep in an instant. Choose your words carefully because no matter what you say, lots of people will be offended. Overall, I think the movie Idiocracy is correct. People are just straight up getting dumber as time goes by. It'll be really fun when my millennial generation retires and a hoard of them don't have a dime in their savings account. domboy, +primortal, nerim and 3 others 6 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted October 31, 2022 MVC Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 04:09, Steven P. said: The account is gone https://mobile.twitter.com/marina_sirtis The ship's councilor has quit Twitter! Apparently forums are cool again! Although from looking at her site, she does not have one yet.. Depending on the traffic, forums can be quite server intensive as we ourselves have seen and experienced over the last 22 years. I assume they are ensuring that a forum won't crash the entire site's servers. Good luck to her, with what Elon Musk is doing right now over at Twitter, it remains to be seen if he has acquired a MySpace. Byeeeeeeeee Jack Wolfe, PaulATMOS, SecretAgentMan and 4 others 2 2 1 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DramaInc Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I think everyone on the left (decent people basically) should be moving off the platform. Make twitter fail now. Besides, elon's going to turn it into a violent right wing cellpool so I'm sure he's going to be in for a lot of legal trouble. Since Elon is a huge liar like the rest of the right wing it's going to end up being years of him lying and delaying investigations into the inevitable violence that site creates. d5aqoëp, Sikh, FloatingFatMan and 5 others 6 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockz Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) On 31/10/2022 at 11:12, Astra.Xtreme said: "Fact checking" is less about facts and more about blue vs red No it’s ###### not. It’s all about people being unable to accept they’re wrong about something, or even worse told a lie from a friend or political source and can’t accept they’ve been had. Facts are facts. Either it happened or it didn’t happen. A=A and 1=1. People have lost the ability to critically think and see what’s right in front of them and grasp for straws at the smallest minutia to make them feel like they aren’t wrong. That’s the problem with social media. Not fact checkers. My god. Not everything needs to be turned into a right or blue issue. I can’t believe people constantly do this and make it so black and white. (Or red and blue). Churma, Sikh, +Raze and 12 others 10 1 1 3 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DramaInc Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 10:21, Warwagon said: Byeeeeeeeee I know you're a duck dynasty type or whatever trash right wingers like. She's a gem though to the Trekkies and I'd say Trekkies are some of the most forward thinkers so it doesn't surprise me at all you arent a fan. Jack Wolfe, Taliseian, +Edouard and 10 others 6 5 1 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted October 31, 2022 Veteran Share Posted October 31, 2022 why does this remind me of "if trump is elected I'm moving to Canada" fits people threw.... in the end who actually did? hint, not many at all Dot Matrix, PeterTHX and Nogib 3 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cork1958 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 11:03, Steven P. said: Marina Sirtis is known for playing Deanna Troi from Star Trek: The Next Generation, an American science fiction television series created by Gene Roddenberry. It originally aired from September 28, 1987 to May 23, 1994 in syndication, spanning 178 episodes over seven seasons. She reprised her role as Deanna in the films following the series: Star Trek Generations (1994), Star Trek: First Contact (1996), Star Trek: Insurrection (1998), and Star Trek: Nemesis (2002), and in the television series Star Trek: Picard (2020–present). She is married to William Riker and they live on the planet Nepenthe with their one surviving child, Kestra (Thaddeus died of Mendaxic neurosclerosis, which could have been cured with a positronic matrix had the Federation not imposed a ban on synthetic lifeforms after the 2385 Attack on Mars.) Hope this helps I thought I recognized that name! nerim and Steven P. 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DramaInc Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 10:25, shockz said: No it’s ###### not. It’s all about people being unable to accept they’re wrong about something, or even worse told a lie from a friend or political source and can’t accept they’ve been had. Facts are facts. Either it happened or it didn’t happen. A=A and 1=1. People have lost the ability to critically think and see what’s right in front of them and grasp for straws at the smallest minutia to make them feel like they aren’t wrong. That’s the problem with social media. Not fact checkers. My god. Eh, right wingers don't care about facts. They don't care about making the US better or whatever country that sick ideology exists in. It's a purely hate filled movement that's obsessed with "owning the libs", abortion (yawn), bigotry, and racism. There's no right wing without any of that and all right wingers fit into some of those, as much as they might pretend not to be. Social media made this problem worse because it gave these sick people a way to spread that sickness even further. I think the solution is to quarantine them on the net. There's no "nice" solution to a group of people who are hard coded to cause damage to others around them. Everyone should start treating them like they are...awful people. We don't want them in our families or workplaces so why are we stuck letting them take over the internet. It's a minority of ppl with a very evil agenda. Remember the Nazi's? Anyone remember when they were so offended when anyone made the comparison between Trump and Hitler in 2016. Well it's been a while since 2016, and he's still on the hitler path and so are his followers. On 31/10/2022 at 10:27, neufuse said: why does this remind me of "if trump is elected I'm moving to Canada" fits people threw.... in the end who actually did? hint, not many at all Tell me you don't know how immigration works without actually saying it. SecretAgentMan, nerim, MightyJordan and 4 others 6 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 10:25, shockz said: No it’s ###### not. It’s all about people being unable to accept they’re wrong about something, or even worse told a lie from a friend or political source and can’t accept they’ve been had. Facts are facts. Either it happened or it didn’t happen. A=A and 1=1. People have lost the ability to critically think and see what’s right in front of them and grasp for straws at the smallest minutia to make them feel like they aren’t wrong. That’s the problem with social media. Not fact checkers. My god. Not everything needs to be turned into a right or blue issue. I can’t believe people constantly do this and make it so black and white. (Or red and blue). Triggered much? It's no secret to anybody that "fact checking" is incredibly biased. It's not at all as easy as 1+2=3. The problem is that people cherry-pick pieces of a fact in order to meet their narrative. Almost every political ad is a perfect example of that. For example: Candidate X voted against Bill Y, therefore they're against Social Issue Z. What they neglect to mention is that Bill Y was about much more than Social Issue Z. The fact-checkers go wild with this sort of thing, but it's nothing more than deceiving tactics meant to keep people misinformed. Again, this is no secret to anybody... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-fact-checking1/ shockz, +Raze, Dick Montage and 6 others 3 5 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockz Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 11:29, DramaInc said: Eh, right wingers don't care about facts. They don't care about making the US better or whatever country that sick ideology exists in. It's a purely hate filled movement that's obsessed with "owning the libs", abortion (yawn), bigotry, and racism. There's no right wing without any of that and all right wingers fit into some of those, as much as they might pretend not to be. Social media made this problem worse because it gave these sick people a way to spread that sickness even further. I think the solution is to quarantine them on the net. There's no "nice" solution to a group of people who are hard coded to cause damage to others around them. Everyone should start treating them like they are...awful people. We don't want them in our families or workplaces so why are we stuck letting them take over the internet. It's a minority of ppl with a very evil agenda. Your mindset is just as bad the nutsos on the right honestly. tmorris1 and domboy 2 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockz Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) On 31/10/2022 at 11:43, Astra.Xtreme said: Triggered much? If that’s what you want to call it, sure. It’s the same ###### narrative the right has been pushing for years, and before that it was about main stream media. I don’t watch cable news, but I was stuck watching a week of Tucker recently and it’s mind numbing. It’s a ###### joke at this point. These aren’t white lies or simple omissions to a broader statement. They’re outright falsehoods that are properly, correctly getting fact checked and you guys can’t remotely handle it and attack the system because you’re having a temper tantrum over being wrong. Edited October 31, 2022 by shockz Jack Wolfe, +Raze and +primortal 3 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 10:47, shockz said: If that’s what you want to call it, sure. It’s the same billshit narrative the right has been pushing for years, and before that it was about main stream media. It’s a ###### joke at this point. These aren’t white lies or simple omissions to a broader statement. They’re outright falsehoods that are properly, correctly getting fact checked and you guys can’t remotely handle it and attack the system because you’re having a temper tantrum over being had. Okay, so you're just going to ignore everything I said and continue your angry ramble... Ironically this is exactly the cherry-picking tactic I was speaking of. Let's summarize your stance: Fact checking always hits the point and doesn't have bias. Gee, I bet this denial has nothing to do with the "side" you're on... domboy and Nogib 1 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DramaInc Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) On 31/10/2022 at 11:01, Astra.Xtreme said: Okay, so you're just going to ignore everything I said and continue your angry ramble... Ironically this is exactly the cherry-picking tactic I was speaking of. Let's summarize your stance: Fact checking always hits the point and doesn't have bias. Gee, I bet this denial has nothing to do with the "side" you're on... The problem is that the sides are pretty clear and one side lies about literally everything it can because it has has the least intelligent and most gullible base. The idea that fact checkers being a little biased is a nonsense point and is often used to sow distrust in the system and create more problems. Fact checkers are generally accurate and have to actually back up their claims...certainly doesn't sound like right wing practices to me. So yeah, fact checkers are left wingers, because facts only matter to left wingers. The only thing right wingers ever do is confirm the truth that they are a disease negatively affecting the health of society. Society as a whole doesn't want them and should stop giving them the undeserved dignity they chose to give up and start applying sanctions. No more humoring them or giving them news coverage to spread lies, find ways to cut any of their lies off of social media with 0 tolerance (like when they say "were just asking questions" when sowing distrust in things like vaccines or politics), don't hire them, don't associate with them, there's no fixing it. In my company we purged all of that nonsense because we have LGBT people (such as myself), Women, non-white people, and it's been heaven in the workplace since they've been gone. No drama, no BS, higher performance as critical thinkers are better at high skill jobs (i seriously don't get how anyone trusts right wingers in the medical or technology practices), no covid outbreaks because everyone got vaxxed so our locations stayed open with minimal interruption. There's no downsides to not having them around as they contribute nothing and they can't resist spreading that hate either. Might sound harsh, but I'm done pretending they're deserving of any respect. They chose to be ignorant and there should be dire life consequences. Edited October 31, 2022 by DramaInc +primortal, SecretAgentMan, Jack Wolfe and 2 others 3 1 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockz Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) On 31/10/2022 at 12:01, Astra.Xtreme said: Okay, so you're just going to ignore everything I said and continue your angry ramble... Ironically this is exactly the cherry-picking tactic I was speaking of. Let's summarize your stance: Fact checking always hits the point and doesn't have bias. Gee, I bet this denial has nothing to do with the "side" you're on... You’re literally doing what I said people were doing. You find some silly example of a bias fact checker and now *all* fact checking are wrong and biased. It’s ridiculous. FWIW, I see plenty of fact check notices on leftist Facebook posts/shares too, but sure, please, continue to claim my stance is because of some sort of political bias. There’s that everything is a red/blue issue again. Unreal. Jack Wolfe, SecretAgentMan, +Raze and 1 other 3 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vf- Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 15:03, Steven P. said: Marina Sirtis is known for playing Deanna Troi from Star Trek: The Next Generation, an American science fiction television series created by Gene Roddenberry. It originally aired from September 28, 1987 to May 23, 1994 in syndication, spanning 178 episodes over seven seasons. She reprised her role as Deanna in the films following the series: Star Trek Generations (1994), Star Trek: First Contact (1996), Star Trek: Insurrection (1998), and Star Trek: Nemesis (2002), and in the television series Star Trek: Picard (2020–present). She is married to William Riker and they live on the planet Nepenthe with their one surviving child, Kestra (Thaddeus died of Mendaxic neurosclerosis, which could have been cured with a positronic matrix had the Federation not imposed a ban on synthetic lifeforms after the 2385 Attack on Mars.) Hope this helps Ahh, I remember her now. Though I didn't recognise her photo from her twitter profile linked here or her name. I remember briefly watching some of those episodes mid 90s when it was Charles Xavier. Another time when I also remember when TV was so good with such varied options of choices. I guess that explains "The ship's councilor has quit Twitter!" I assumed it was twitter's ship councillor. 🤣 Steven P. 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 11:13, shockz said: You’re literally doing what I said people were doing. You find some silly example of a bias fact checker and now *all* fact checking are wrong and biased. It’s ridiculous. Where did I say that? Literally scroll up and re-read what I said. Take your blinders off and read the plain English... I didn't even point to any specific examples. All I did was say that political bias is a big problem with fact checking these days and posted an article that discusses that point. For a third time, this bias is no secret and it's laughable that you'd even try to deny it. I have no idea why you felt the need to go on another left ramble that wasn't even about the topic being discussed... Take a few breaths and maybe life will be less ridiculous for you... +Raze, +Warwagon, shockz and 4 others 2 5 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockz Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 12:20, Astra.Xtreme said: Where did I say that? Literally scroll up and re-read what I said. Take your blinders off and read the plain English... I didn't even point to any specific examples. All I did was say that political bias is a big problem with fact checking these days and posted an article that discusses that point. For a third time, this bias is no secret and it's laughable that you'd even try to deny it. I have no idea why you felt the need to go on another left ramble that wasn't even about the topic being discussed... Take a few breaths and maybe life will be less ridiculous for you... What a ###### joke. Oh look, you’re trying to paint me as a leftist because you’re conditioned to do so when someone disagrees with you. Truly pathetic dude. Jack Wolfe 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 11:26, shockz said: What a ###### joke. Oh look, you’re trying to paint me as a leftist because you’re conditioned to do so when someone disagrees with you. Truly pathetic dude. Paint what? You let those colors fly yourself... Everybody in this discussion was civil and talking on general terms until you jumped in and started rambling about the right. YOU made this red vs blue... You want to see pathetic, go re-read your profanity filled rager comments... Take your misery elsewhere. "Your mindset is just as bad the nutsos on the right honestly. " "If that’s what you want to call it, sure. It’s the same ###### narrative the right has been pushing for years, and before that it was about main stream media. I don’t watch cable news, but I was stuck watching a week of Tucker recently and it’s mind numbing. It’s a ###### joke at this point." We can take a dive into the Trump threads if we need to pull more examples of your hot takes... +Warwagon, Nogib and shockz 1 1 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacelordmaster Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Honestly, who cares? I personally can care less for Twitter as I find it useless, limited and cluttered. As far as her quitting it, again, who cares? SMH. Son_Of_Dad 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DramaInc Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 11:44, spacelordmaster said: Honestly, who cares? I personally can care less for Twitter as I find it useless, limited and cluttered. As far as her quitting it, again, who cares? SMH. It’s being turned into a tool for right wingers to subvert democracy. That’s a big deal. MightyJordan, Nogib, SecretAgentMan and 2 others 4 1 Share Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1422863-marina-sirtis-quits-twitter/#findComment-598773090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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