Simple Windows 11 vs. Ubuntu 22.04.1

[Guest]

On 09/12/2022 at 11:15, Nick H. said:

And at no point have I disagreed with that statement. I agree that Linux is faster than Windows, not once have I said otherwise. But your question was, "when are Microsoft going to close that 5% performance gap?" and my response is that they won't because they don't need to, and then I asked you to provide real-world statistics (FPS, RAM consumption etc.) when playing a video game on Windows and then on Linux.

Of course a supercomputer will want to get every bit of performance out of the system, but I don't know anyone that has a supercomputer in their home for their day-to-day tasks...I know some guys over in CERN that have access to supercomputers, but they are hardly your average user.

So, in your view, we should eat crap because crap is fine and no one needs improvements on the software side because they are not needed in your view. So you can automatically be right as usual. Ok then, bye.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

On 09/12/2022 at 11:44, LuisMazza said:

So, in your view, we should eat crap because crap is fine and no one needs improvements on the software side because they are not needed in your view. So you can automatically be right as usual. Ok then, bye.

I don't know why you continue to try and twist my words and at the same time dodge my simple request.

I have not said that people "should eat crap because crap is fine."  What I have said is that a 5% performance difference is neglibile for your average user. You then countered by saying, "what about video gamers?" to which my response was, "play a game on Linux, then play the same game on Windows and provide me with the actual information (FPS, RAM consumption etc.) of the performance differences between the two."

[Guest]

On 09/12/2022 at 09:07, Nick H. said:

I don't know why you continue to try and twist my words and at the same time dodge my simple request.

I have not said that people "should eat crap because crap is fine."  What I have said is that a 5% performance difference is neglibile for your average user. You then countered by saying, "what about video gamers?" to which my response was, "play a game on Linux, then play the same game on Windows and provide me with the actual information (FPS, RAM consumption etc.) of the performance differences between the two."

This was supposed to be a conversation, not a programming school of "If this, then that." I'm done.

[+InsaneNutter MVC]

People are not choosing their operating system based on a single benchmark is the point you don't seem to be understanding. Why not provide some real world comparisons based on things people actually use a computer for?

If their was a game that would only play at 45fps on Windows, however I could get 60fps on Linux with the same hardware, that would be significant and i'd question why I was using Windows on my gaming PC. 

If I did a lot of video editing and I could export a video significantly quicker on Linux compared to Windows then again that would be a big thing.

I will give you a real world example of why I installed Linux over windows on my HTPC back in 2010 however. XBMC (now Kodi) supported hardware accelerated playback of x264 content on Linux long before Windows. The end result was I could buy a cheap Intel Atom Nettop PC with an Nvidia Ion GPU and playback 1080p content perfectly.

I use both Windows and Linux, essentially I choose which ever happens to be the best tool to get the job done.

[Guest]

On 09/12/2022 at 09:25, InsaneNutter said:

People are not choosing their operating system based on a single benchmark is the point you don't seem to be understanding. Why not provide some real world comparisons based on things people actually use a computer for?

If their was a game that would only play at 45fps on Windows, however I could get 60fps on Linux with the same hardware, that would be significant and i'd question why I was using Windows on my gaming PC. 

If I did a lot of video editing and I could export a video significantly quicker on Linux compared to Windows then again that would be a big thing.

I will give you a real world example of why I installed Linux over windows on my HTPC back in 2010 however. XBMC (now Kodi) supported hardware accelerated playback of x264 content on Linux long before Windows. The end result was I could buy a cheap Intel Atom Nettop PC with an Nvidia Ion GPU and playback 1080p content perfectly.

I use both Windows and Linux, essentially I choose which ever happens to be the best tool to get the job done.

In other words, we don't care. Ok, alright. I'm gonna find the ones who care instead of laying around here. You guys can't be safer doing the same things you always did the way you always have done. Could also get a 35 year government job. That's the same kind of mind and I'm wrong. 

[Nick H. Supervisor]

On 09/12/2022 at 13:29, LuisMazza said:

In other words, we don't care. Ok, alright. I'm gonna find the ones who care instead of laying around here. You guys can't be safer doing the same things you always did the way you always have done. Could also get a 35 year government job. That's the same kind of mind and I'm wrong. 

You're doing it again, you're putting words in people's mouths. No one has said that they don't care. But when we have asked you to provide a real-case situation you haven't. A conversation cannot be had if you aren't going to backup your position.

You can walk away from the conversation if you like and go and find like-minded people that will say, "goodness you're right! Why are we still using Windows?!" but that isn't having a conversation. That is looking for an echo-chamber. The discussion in this thread is a conversation, people with opposing views explaining themselves in a civil manner.

[+Matthew S. Subscriber²]

On 09/12/2022 at 03:07, LuisMazza said:

Geekbench measures raw processor/memory performance.  It's simple and effective. Many other tests were run over the internet, and they all show that Linux has an advantage regarding "let the system reach its full potential". So, benchmark games are just a synthetic way of saying that regarding raw processor performance, Linux is better and even better with newer processors. Microsoft is just not optimizing its kernel as fast as Linux does.

Actually no it's not measuring raw processor and memory performance, it's using the NATIVE operating system api calls, if you want to really measure raw performance you'd be writing a dedicated OS to do it and at that it still wouldn't be real world data.

There's also a lot more that goes into this discussion, first the NT Kernel isn't updated as often as you think to take advantage of architectural changes in the ISA since they need to maintain x # of generational backwards compatibility, the Linux Kernel however, if you roll your own, can be stripped of compatibility code for old hardware, and XNU does that every 4~ish years so  again benchmarks between OS's is all fine and dandy but it means jack when looking at real world performance.

[binaryzero]

No one cares what OS you use, nor does it matter in the real world. The OS shouldn't dictate which applications you use, rather the applications dictate what OS is required. It's okay to use multiple OS, or to have multiple machines running different things. I don't "use" an OS, I use applications and work with the OS that the application is written for.

Do you think when I just deployed Windows 11 to 25k odd clients that I thought about performance against another OS? ###### no. The 4k odd LOB applications in the org I manage run primarily on Windows, that's the required OS to complete work. I don't give a ###### ###### what the marginal performance benefits of whatever OS is with games, I use game consoles to play games, purpose built machines and software to do one job, anything extra is a bonus. 

LOL why don't super computers run Windows... You're comparing a desktop 8086 based operating systems to a super computer, FFFFFF. Why do they use Linux? Because it's open source, you can download the source code and use that as the base to do whatever you want, the existing code is used to build upon for something greater... 

This entire thread is eye cancer.

[devHead]

On 09/12/2022 at 06:29, LuisMazza said:

In other words, we don't care. Ok, alright. I'm gonna find the ones who care instead of laying around here. You guys can't be safer doing the same things you always did the way you always have done. Could also get a 35 year government job. That's the same kind of mind and I'm wrong. 

Luis, you know how many people are today thanks to social media? They have become those who don't want to hear someone else's opinion; they want to hear their opinion coming out of someone else's mouth.  Don't be like that. This isn't Facebook or Twitter. You have to expect to get different mindsets and opinions on topics regardless of how strongly you feel about something. 

[ThaCrip]

While I get Windows is the standard, so this counts for a lot, Win11 just looks like a failure on hardware requirements alone.

makes me glad I changed over to Linux a while ago (Jan 2019) so I don't have to deal with Win11 once Win10's support ends Oct 2025. because ill likely still be using my same hardware beyond that point (possibly many years beyond that point) and if I was on Windows I would either have to use the workarounds to get Win11 to install on my 3rd gen i5 hardware (which Rufus seems to help with from what I read when creating bootable USB stick) or just buy new hardware, which I would rather avoid since my current setup will likely remain fast enough for the foreseeable future.

but it makes you wonder how reliable these workarounds (to get Win11 installed on unsupported hardware) will remain as time passes. like say Win11 is reliable enough on my computer currently (I never tried it, but say it is for sake of argument), since it's not officially supported, who knows if that will remain true a year or two or longer from now etc.

but speaking of Win11, how many around here have been using Win11 on hardware that's not officially supported and what's your experience with it as time passes in terms of general system reliability/stability? ; similar to Win10?

[shockz]

On 09/12/2022 at 08:29, LuisMazza said:

In other words, we don't care. Ok, alright. I'm gonna find the ones who care instead of laying around here. You guys can't be safer doing the same things you always did the way you always have done. Could also get a 35 year government job. That's the same kind of mind and I'm wrong. 

Bye!

[Good Bot, Bad Bot]

On 08/12/2022 at 20:00, devHead said:

Actually, I find opening Snap packages only slow on the first start.  After that, I notice no lag between, for example, the Firefox Snap and the Debian package.

Sure on a new boot Snaps are even slower but even if just reopen a Snap there is a notable (if small) difference is startup speed to a .deb program. It is better than what it was...

 

 

On 09/12/2022 at 03:30, LuisMazza said:

Now Windows is basically free for the end user who previously had a license, so what comes next? Steam Deck uses Linux, Steam is on Linux, if Microsoft loses the gaming community, which is highly focused on performance, Windows will become a niche OS for companies and lazy old people.

While that would be awesome Windows is not going to become a niche OS with gaming or otherwise. LOL Come on dude... Windows will morph into some else much different over time but Linux also won't exist in it's current form either.

 

 

On 09/12/2022 at 06:02, LuisMazza said:

https://www.softwaretestinghelp.com/linux-vs-windows/#Linux_and_Windows_Performance_Comparison

Ummmm Why are we taking about supercomputing workloads now? Few people would disagree Linux is better suited for that. Desktop usage is a totally different animal.

Sorry, but  no one cares about a 5% difference on benchmark scores with Linux (because it has little to do with real world results) including Microsoft. This is being told to you by a number of people (including me) that actually use Linux. TBH you are kinda embarrassing us Linux users here.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Good Bot, Bad Bot

[Dick Montage]

On 09/12/2022 at 08:30, LuisMazza said:

Steam Deck uses Linux, Steam is on Linux,

And as a steamdeck owner I will state that some games actually run better with Win10 installed. So…