Is it worth the $2700 for a Macbook Pro 16" M3 Pro and 36GB?

[Jose_49]

God damn it, Apple.

The 15.3inch with 16GB and 512GB SSD is $1700.

They are the masters of upsell. With $150 I can get a 14" M3 Pro with better specs.

[adrynalyne]

On 23/11/2023 at 06:50, Jose_49 said:

God damn it, Apple.

The 15.3inch with 16GB and 512GB SSD is $1700.

They are the masters of upsell. With $150 I can get a 14" M3 Pro with better specs.

Not sure if this helps but the MBP has a far superior screen vs Air. MBP has a 120Hz refresh rate Mini LED panel with like 2.5K dimming zones and 1600 nits peak brightness. 

[Jose_49]

On 23/11/2023 at 15:10, adrynalyne said:

Not sure if this helps but the MBP has a far superior screen vs Air. MBP has a 120Hz refresh rate Mini LED panel with like 2.5K dimming zones and 1600 nits peak brightness. 

Thanks for the reminder 😥.

There's no way around it, they know how to do their upsell.

[adrynalyne]

On 23/11/2023 at 07:26, Jose_49 said:

Thanks for the reminder 😥.

There's no way around it, they know how to do their upsell.

Also when shopping RAM, keep in mind it’s shared with the GPU too. 

[Jose_49]

On 23/11/2023 at 15:38, adrynalyne said:

Also when shopping RAM, keep in mind it’s shared with the GPU too. 

Ohhhh, that I didn't know.

Although I won't use any GPU-intensive apps (possibly some Premiere and/or OBS sporadically) it reinforces future-proofing the 36GB decision.

 

Thank you 🤗

[Jose_49]

Well guys

Thank you for the help. 

I ended up purchasing it.

Will let you know how it goes.

[allannyholm]

I think you'll be glad you bought a Mac. As mentioned, macOS isn't for everyone and it might take a bit longer that you'd wish for to get the shortcuts in macOS under your skin.

I recently learned that, on a DA-DK keyboard setup, CMD+Option+Backspace deletes a file or folder directly (bypasses 'Trash') and that the dialog with window that asks to Cancel or Delete is easily accessible with CMD+D for Delete or the Return key for Cancel.

This after 20 some years of using Mac computers. Learning something everyday it seems.

Please come back with questions if you have them. Or take them to MacRumors or some other Mac-focused website should you feel your questions are more well suited on such websites and forums.

[Jose_49]

On 23/11/2023 at 17:52, allannyholm said:

I think you'll be glad you bought a Mac. As mentioned, macOS isn't for everyone and it might take a bit longer that you'd wish for to get the shortcuts in macOS under your skin.

I recently learned that, on a DA-DK keyboard setup, CMD+Option+Backspace deletes a file or folder directly (bypasses 'Trash') and that the dialog with window that asks to Cancel or Delete is easily accessible with CMD+D for Delete or the Return key for Cancel.

This after 20 some years of using Mac computers. Learning something everyday it seems.

Please come back with questions if you have them. Or take them to MacRumors or some other Mac-focused website should you feel your questions are more well suited on such websites and forums.

Awesome!

Will do! Thank you very much 🤗

I should be receiving the device between Wednesday and Thursday!!

 

I also ordered a battery replacement for my XPS 15 7590 (It was also swollen). As it's perfectly fine, it can serve as my backup computer and/or my other family member

[Good Bot, Bad Bot]

On 23/11/2023 at 12:56, Jose_49 said:

Well guys

Thank you for the help. 

I ended up purchasing it.

Will let you know how it goes.

It seems like most people here said not to do it. LOL I am so confused on why you spent $2700 on a freaking Mac when said prefer Windows. You need to spend that much for multi-monitor support on Mac!? Is that even legal? LOL Why not spend $1000 on a MacBook Air (M2) for when on the go and $1700 on a Windows Desktop machine that could also be able to do some gaming? $2700 on one machine running Mac OS. Wow! Not for me...

[WITHOUT-ME]

no

[Sikh]

On 25/11/2023 at 08:54, Good Bot, Bad Bot said:

It seems like most people here said not to do it. LOL I am so confused on why you spent $2700 on a freaking Mac when said prefer Windows. You need to spend that much for multi-monitor support on Mac!? Is that even legal? LOL Why not spend $1000 on a MacBook Air (M2) for when on the go and $1700 on a Windows Desktop machine that could also be able to do some gaming? $2700 on one machine running Mac OS. Wow! Not for me...

What are you going on about? Are you one of those people that thinks Mac can't use standard HDMI/DP/USBC monitors? Or are you just being ignorant on purpose?

Also why are you judging him for what he decided to do? He asked for people's opinions and made a decision. The way you responded is why people hate "IT People". You know you dont always have to reply to a forum post, you can just click away or look at something else 🤦‍♀️😑

[adrynalyne]

On 25/11/2023 at 16:05, Sikh said:

What are you going on about? Are you one of those people that thinks Mac can't use standard HDMI/DP/USBC monitors? Or are you just being ignorant on purpose?

Also why are you judging him for what he decided to do? He asked for people's opinions and made a decision. The way you responded is why people hate "IT People". You know you dont always have to reply to a forum post, you can just click away or look at something else 🤦‍♀️😑

I am guessing they are referring to the very real multiple monitor limitation that Apple imposes on their non-pro SKUs. I believe that can be worked around with DisplayLink and a dock though if more monitors are needed. 
 

Also, calm down on the attacks. The OP did say they preferred Windows and appeared to lean towards being better off with a Windows machine. It was a bit of a 180, but if they want a Mac, so be it. It’s just a little confusing when you read the entire conversation. Which is also fine, they were just bouncing ideas off to come to a conclusion. 

[Good Bot, Bad Bot]

On 25/11/2023 at 18:05, Sikh said:

What are you going on about? Are you one of those people that thinks Mac can't use standard HDMI/DP/USBC monitors? Or are you just being ignorant on purpose?

Also why are you judging him for what he decided to do? He asked for people's opinions and made a decision. The way you responded is why people hate "IT People". You know you dont always have to reply to a forum post, you can just click away or look at something else 🤦‍♀️😑

I asked a legit question and gave an alternative suggestion. That a problem? I didn't say anything about what a Mac can or can't do. It was the OP who said needed the Pro to run 2-3 monitors which adrynalyne confirmed. I was surprised needed to spend that much money and actually questioned it. Poor reading comprehension there huh?

We are done here and you can get lost now.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Good Bot, Bad Bot

[Sikh]

On 25/11/2023 at 18:25, adrynalyne said:

I am guessing they are referring to the very real multiple monitor limitation that Apple imposes on their non-pro SKUs. I believe that can be worked around with DisplayLink and a dock though if more monitors are needed. 
 

Also, calm down on the attacks. The OP did say they preferred Windows and appeared to lean towards being better off with a Windows machine. It was a bit of a 180, but if they want a Mac, so be it. It’s just a little confusing when you read the entire conversation. Which is also fine, they were just bouncing ideas off to come to a conclusion. 

That's a M* series(not pro/max/ultra) limitation that has been explained by many people on why its a thing, its not "Apple imposing it". Even people that run multiple monitors on M* series Macs have shown the performance hit they take doing so. 

As for attacks, is calling ignorant really an attack? I didnt think calling someone ignorant is an attack but if it is, thats news to me and I'll do better next time.
 

Quote

It was a bit of a 180, but if they want a Mac, so be it. It’s just a little confusing when you read the entire conversation. Which is also fine, they were just bouncing ideas off to come to a conclusion. 

I dont know about you but this whole page (2) has made it clear that he has been considering getting a Mac and just weighing options between air and pro. I dont know how its confusing anymore when its pretty clear whats going on. 


 

Quote

It seems like most people here said not to do it. LOL I am so confused on why you spent $2700 on a freaking Mac when said prefer Windows. You need to spend that much for multi-monitor support on Mac!? Is that even legal?

There is nothing "legit" about either of these questions but tell yourself whatever you need to. 

 

Quote

but I see adrynalyne already explained to you the limitation with Macs and multiple monitors.

Its not all Macs, its the standard M series. I run a M Series Mac with 3 monitors without any issues and no work arounds. It's ok if you dont understand the technology but making a blanket statement as above makes you seem uneducated and foolish, food for thought.

[adrynalyne]

On 25/11/2023 at 20:55, Sikh said:

That's a M* series(not pro/max/ultra) limitation that has been explained by many people on why its a thing, its not "Apple imposing it".

It’s 100% Apple imposing it by making it a hardware limitation. Also read where I said non-Pro SKUs. So you aren’t telling us anything that wasn’t already known or even stated. Nothing about the word imposed means it’s a software or company policy. Apple made a conscious decision to limit the hardware in a manner to force higher end model sales and/or make people look for workarounds. Nobody else shares the blame on this but Apple. It’s their SoC, and their decision. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by adrynalyne

[WITHOUT-ME]

its garbage, get win11 23h2 machine for a half price

[adrynalyne]

On 26/11/2023 at 18:46, KZ7S2zj9XS2MKs5 said:

its garbage, get win11 23h2 machine for a half price

Did you not have time to explain yourself, or were you unable to due to not actually knowing?

[Sikh]

On 25/11/2023 at 22:14, adrynalyne said:

Apple made a conscious decision to limit the hardware in a manner to force higher end model sales and/or make people look for workarounds.

This is a statement you are making. There's no proof that they did this on purpose. There's a lot of evidence showing its a technical limitation of the platform that makes sense as the chips scale. The chips scale in specs Just like you expect from Intel i3, i5 and i7's and AMD's x600 / x700 / x800 / x900. They all have specific limitations that people have to be aware of and make decisions based off of. We have been doing this in computing since Core I / Ryan 1xxx series and I dont see it changing.

[Jose_49]

Thanks everyone for the help so far 🤗! 

This topic has caught fire, but I never wanted to create another Windows vs Mac debate.

I wanted to give some additional context:

1. I move a lot.
2. I do programming work, mostly web dev and react-native (iOS and Android development - Having a Mac is a plus). I tend to spin a couple of docker containers.
3. I have high RAM usage.
4. I don't have CPU usage except for sporadic translation and compilation spikes.
5. Not all the places that I move have electrical outlets. Battery life is precious to me. I'm looking for something that can hold me for 4 - 6 hours on a single charge (With Video calls, video playbacks, and VS Code)
6. I take international flights from time to time between Spain and the Dominican Republic (Important for the "Possible Macbook sale" section below).
7. I live in a 550 ft² apartment with my wife (49 m²). I don't have space. I have two portable 14" monitors that I try to fit in as needed.

 

The Remote Server Option:

Having a small desktop as a remote server

1. Unfortunately, I have restricted physical space, and I'd push it too far even by having a small desktop around the house (Maybe a NUC).
2. I don't want to deal with the availability of the machine (power outages, random disconnections, and more)

The remote server option - Using AWS/GCP

1. This put my brain juices flowing.
2. I spun up a Virtual Machine in Google Cloud. I connected via SSH and offloaded my programming work there (just as a proof of concept).
3. I connected my Dell XPS 7590 directly to it. (9750H i7 - Max TDP 45 W; undervolted)
4. It worked well. It disconnected twice when the computer turned off the display, and I had to restart VS Code (Lost unsaved work once) manually. But nothing major.
5. CPU usage was slow but bearable.
6. Computer resource usage halved. I maintained a low processor usage (Around 13 - 20%) and the processor's power draw under 20W (according to HWInfo), lending me to 4 - 6 hours.
7. Unfortunately, I began receiving video calls and doing other work with the PC, and the CPU spiked. Battery life got impacted and lasted me around 3.5 hours.
8. I did a real-world test scenario today in which I programmed remotely, attended 2 video calls, and had an external video playback. I was able to get 3 hours. Note that the XPS has a 97Whr battery (70% of design capacity due to wear)
9. GCP can get expensive under specific workloads (Higher RAM usage).

Why a $2650 Macbook?

1. I need a computer that can hold battery life under CPU spikes. Most Windows laptops can't,
2. M series Apple Computers are doing well.
3. Snapdragon X won't come until 2024, and:
   1. It probably won't be cheap
   2. It's unknown if Windows on ARM support will be good (I have read mixed and limited reviews on Reddit).
4. I buy a computer for the longest use life as possible.
5. I triangulated all of the available Mac machines + prices + available years of support (estimated).
6. I want something with a big screen. As mentioned, I don't have the space for an external monitor.
7. I felt I was constantly losing in the face of Apple's upselling mastery.
   1. 24GB would be the minimum regardless of the remote server option, as the computer must be future-proofed. 16GB is not enough.
   2. The 24GB 15-inch Macbook Air with M2 was $1,900.
   3. The 14-inch Macbook Pro with M3 Pro was $1,800.
   4. The 14-inch had a higher tier and newer processor.
   5. I wanted a bigger screen, so that pushed me to the 16-inch Macbook Pro.
   6. But 18GB wouldn't be enough for my current usage or future-proofing, so I pushed it to 36GB
   7. The problem is that Apple charges you an insane $400 for doubling the memory.
   8. I wouldn't need the power of an M3 Pro, but yes the Memory
   9. I want to have the capabilities to connect to 2 external displays (WTF Apple)
   10. Why doesn't a $1,000+ computer allow that? The same reason the iPhone 15 and older don't support USB 3.
8. It has excellent battery life in bright settings.
9. This computer will hold part of its value many years from now.

Possible Macbook sale

1. I considered selling the Mac if the remote option was fruitful.
2. I got the Macbook from the US market at a $250 discount ($2,650 + tax = $2860)
3. I could sell it in the Spanish market for a profit (The same Mac costs $3,859,9 MSRP + Taxes) . A whopping $1,000 difference!

Some thoughts:

1. I think the power efficiency of the M3 Pro still has the upper hand.
2. I'm hacking my environment too much for my day-to-day work.
3. I'd be down to go through the hoops and loops if it was a hobby, side hustle, or project that I'm doing, but this isn't the case.
4. The thin client and offloading to cloud computing is a real thing.

After today's trial, I think I'm keeping the computer.

[adrynalyne]

On 28/11/2023 at 20:28, Sikh said:

This is a statement you are making. There's no proof that they did this on purpose. There's a lot of evidence showing it’s a technical limitation of the platform that makes sense as the chips scale. The chips scale in specs Just like you expect from Intel i3, i5 and i7's and AMD's x600 / x700 / x800 / x900. They all have specific limitations that people have to be aware of and make decisions based off of. We have been doing this in computing since Core I / Ryan 1xxx series and I dont see it changing.

How can they not have done it on purpose, they literally designed the hardware. I could believe that it was not intentional with M1, but how can you excuse M2 and M3? This was a design decision, just like with Intel and how they limit their hardware by sku, they chose to implement it with that limitation. Apple has no one to point fingers at other than themselves. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by adrynalyne

[adrynalyne]

On 28/11/2023 at 21:38, Jose_49 said:

Thanks everyone for the help so far 🤗! 

This topic has caught fire, but I never wanted to create another Windows vs Mac debate.

I wanted to give some additional context:

1. I move a lot.
2. I do programming work, mostly web dev and react-native (iOS and Android development - Having a Mac is a plus). I tend to spin a couple of docker containers.
3. I have high RAM usage.
4. I don't have CPU usage except for sporadic translation and compilation spikes.
5. Not all the places that I move have electrical outlets. Battery life is precious to me. I'm looking for something that can hold me for 4 - 6 hours on a single charge (With Video calls, video playbacks, and VS Code)
6. I take international flights from time to time between Spain and the Dominican Republic (Important for the "Possible Macbook sale" section below).
7. I live in a 550 ft² apartment with my wife (49 m²). I don't have space. I have two portable 14" monitors that I try to fit in as needed.

 

The Remote Server Option:

Having a small desktop as a remote server

1. Unfortunately, I have restricted physical space, and I'd push it too far even by having a small desktop around the house (Maybe a NUC).
2. I don't want to deal with the availability of the machine (power outages, random disconnections, and more)

The remote server option - Using AWS/GCP

1. This put my brain juices flowing.
2. I spun up a Virtual Machine in Google Cloud. I connected via SSH and offloaded my programming work there (just as a proof of concept).
3. I connected my Dell XPS 7590 directly to it. (9750H i7 - Max TDP 45 W; undervolted)
4. It worked well. It disconnected twice when the computer turned off the display, and I had to restart VS Code (Lost unsaved work once) manually. But nothing major.
5. CPU usage was slow but bearable.
6. Computer resource usage halved. I maintained a low processor usage (Around 13 - 20%) and the processor's power draw under 20W (according to HWInfo), lending me to 4 - 6 hours.
7. Unfortunately, I began receiving video calls and doing other work with the PC, and the CPU spiked. Battery life got impacted and lasted me around 3.5 hours.
8. I did a real-world test scenario today in which I programmed remotely, attended 2 video calls, and had an external video playback. I was able to get 3 hours. Note that the XPS has a 97Whr battery (70% of design capacity due to wear)
9. GCP can get expensive under specific workloads (Higher RAM usage).

Why a $2650 Macbook?

1. I need a computer that can hold battery life under CPU spikes. Most Windows laptops can't,
2. M series Apple Computers are doing well.
3. Snapdragon X won't come until 2024, and:
   1. It probably won't be cheap
   2. It's unknown if Windows on ARM support will be good (I have read mixed and limited reviews on Reddit).
4. I buy a computer for the longest use life as possible.
5. I triangulated all of the available Mac machines + prices + available years of support (estimated).
6. I want something with a big screen. As mentioned, I don't have the space for an external monitor.
7. I felt I was constantly losing in the face of Apple's upselling mastery.
   1. 24GB would be the minimum regardless of the remote server option, as the computer must be future-proofed. 16GB is not enough.
   2. The 24GB 15-inch Macbook Air with M2 was $1,900.
   3. The 14-inch Macbook Pro with M3 Pro was $1,800.
   4. The 14-inch had a higher tier and newer processor.
   5. I wanted a bigger screen, so that pushed me to the 16-inch Macbook Pro.
   6. But 18GB wouldn't be enough for my current usage or future-proofing, so I pushed it to 36GB
   7. The problem is that Apple charges you an insane $400 for doubling the memory.
   8. I wouldn't need the power of an M3 Pro, but yes the Memory
   9. I want to have the capabilities to connect to 2 external displays (WTF Apple)
   10. Why doesn't a $1,000+ computer allow that? The same reason the iPhone 15 and older don't support USB 3.
8. It has excellent battery life in bright settings.
9. This computer will hold part of its value many years from now.

Possible Macbook sale

1. I considered selling the Mac if the remote option was fruitful.
2. I got the Macbook from the US market at a $250 discount ($2,650 + tax = $2860)
3. I could sell it in the Spanish market for a profit (The same Mac costs $3,859,9 MSRP + Taxes) . A whopping $1,000 difference!

Some thoughts:

1. I think the power efficiency of the M3 Pro still has the upper hand.
2. I'm hacking my environment too much for my day-to-day work.
3. I'd be down to go through the hoops and loops if it was a hobby, side hustle, or project that I'm doing, but this isn't the case.
4. The thin client and offloading to cloud computing is a real thing.

After today's trial, I think I'm keeping the computer.

You get it this week, right? I’m curious to hear back on how you like it. 

[Dick Montage]

On 26/11/2023 at 03:55, Sikh said:

its not "Apple imposing it"

Look… as a staunch Apple USER (not a fan, not a fanboy, not an advocate, but as a user who benefits from their products)…

Apple makes the hardware, designs the chips, has absolute control of the OS and all tech involved.

It is, in every conceivable way, “Apple imposing it”.

And yeah, I run a multi monitor setup on my M-series MBP.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

On 29/11/2023 at 04:38, Jose_49 said:

I live in a 550 ft² apartment with my wife (49 m²).

Good lord, don't tell her you said that - she'll crucify you!

Sorry, I couldn't help myself...

[Jose_49]

On 29/11/2023 at 00:56, adrynalyne said:

You get it this week, right? I’m curious to hear back on how you like it. 

Yes! Today at night or tomorrow. 

[Joni_78]

I hate Apple as a company but I do like some of their products.

I bought two 16" MBP's in 2019 and I think that this has been the best laptop I've ever had. Previously I've been using HP EliteBook laptops and for some reason Windows laptops always seem to have really cheap display panel and small battery.

I think that this cost about 3000€ in 2019 and I still hate the fact I gave that much money to Apple even though I like this laptop so much. I would say it's worth it but then again there might be better Windows laptops these days.