Zombie9920 Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by irdawood see you guys cant even take it that AMD is better and other people suppost AMD over crappy Intel lol lol i dont need to create a second ID i can take all you guys on single handed coz i have facts and you guys have opinions What? I have posted a few facts in this debate. Most of your posts that I have read have been opinion or misguided facts(like that video..it is a fact that the AthlonXP thermal Diode can work BUT you need special hardware for it to work and it will not work on current retail solutions because of the lack of the special hardware). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typh0n Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Very few people in architecture use Mac's (almost to the point that its insulting to hear that). Mac's are for desktop publishing and photoshop type graphics. Animation is done on Windows, Linux, and Unix. We use AutoCAD 2000i for CAD. There is no huge difference between a PIII and a P4 for doing 2D CAD work. The big difference is when you do 3D (which isn't CAD). 3D Studio does take advantage of SSE. But SSE doesn't make that big of a difference, I don't think. The cache size makes a huge difference because all the textures, shadows, and radiosity tend to clog up the processors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie9920 Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Fact - irdawood types like an uneducated fool. I have a feeling that you are a kid because you don't spell properly and you don't seem to be familiar with proper sentences. This isn't meant to be a blow. It is only a fact. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H. Veteran Posted February 21, 2002 Veteran Share Posted February 21, 2002 if this was an IRC chatroom we'd all get kicked for flooding... yikes! This is so funny. LOL.... sometimes i can't help but laugh at how silly some of you people are. I'm not a genius but i know for sure that some of the things both AMD and Intel "supporters" say are totally wrong, but yet the argument goes on. I bet the mods and admins are sitting here just laughin their ass off how big this thing has got :) so to close this out.... Intel is good and AMD is good. The End. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdawood Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 look does it even matter about that??? my athlon is yet to leave the 40 mark and its running way faster then the rated speed im a kid????....i dont think so.. you and your mates must be the kids you guys cant even build computers that remain cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie9920 Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by SHoTTa35 Intel is good and AMD is good. The End. Agreed. There is nothig wrong with using AMD or Intel. Some people just go out of thier way trying to make people think Intel is crap. A healthy debate never hurt anyone. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dysan Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by Zombie9920 Well, it may not run that efficiently but still, the Athlon MP is at a clear advantage. Especially since the MP has SSE, 3DNow, 3DNow+, MMX and MMX+ on top of the fact that it is a newer processor. The main reason that AthlonXP/MP are the CPU of choice for 3d and CAd users is because the Athlon has a superior FPU. It is a known fact that P4 FPU is much weaker than Athlon's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by Typh0n Very few people in architecture use Mac's (almost to the point that its insulting to hear that). Mac's are for desktop publishing and photoshop type graphics. Animation is done on Windows, Linux, and Unix. We use AutoCAD 2000i for CAD. There is no huge difference between a PIII and a P4 for doing 2D CAD work. The big difference is when you do 3D (which isn't CAD). 3D Studio does take advantage of SSE. But SSE doesn't make that big of a difference, I don't think. The cache size makes a huge difference because all the textures, shadows, and radiosity tend to clog up the processors. The whole design/architecture department at Iowa State uses Mac. You won't find a pc in the lot. Couple of my architecture friends bought pc's....only because they were cheaper. Most buy the new G4's....one even got a dual G3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyder Veteran Posted February 21, 2002 Veteran Share Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by SHoTTa35 I bet the mods and admins are sitting here just laughin their ass off how big this thing has got :) Are you watching me!? :paranoid: :paranoid: :paranoid: hehe j/k :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdawood Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 yeah our DBA has got a G3 for the secondary network server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bormooski Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 irdawood... nice rig, but that is sick. i thought i had issues. ;) someone said if you like intel stick with intel, and if you like amd then stick with amd. i cant agree more. but like i said, clock cycle for clock cycle, the amd is faster. and yes (to ease the mind of the intel pansies) the amd's to have heat issues. so what? put a fan or two, and your fine. your car has heat issues to. as long as it has a radiator, a fan, and coolant... its fine. so whats your point? so the amd runs hot. simple solution... cool it. duh! i dont see what the big deal is, unless you wanna run it in a 1U case.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typh0n Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by superfula The whole design/architecture department at Iowa State uses Mac. You won't find a pc in the lot. Couple of my architecture friends bought pc's....only because they were cheaper. Most buy the new G4's....one even got a dual G3. Schools buy Mac's becuase they get them at a huge discount. Apple has been doing that since I was in grade school in the 80's. Doesn't mean squat when you get into the real world. What makes the most money is what is used. Business is all about the ROI (Return on Investment). We have a couple of Mac's here, they are used for marketing (again desktop publishing and photoshop work) and nothing else. The only firms that I know using Mac's for architecture are doing elevation and perspective views of proposed buildings (using Quark, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. all of which I agree run better on Mac's), but not for CAD and animation work. I've been in the industry for over 10 years and the Mac's died in the CAD and animation industry about 6 to 8 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=NickJ= Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 you CANNOT just say "$$$ = quality" I work for Sony, i know how utter sh*te half their stuff is (i have to sell it, ain't that a b*tch), yet its sold 4x the price of the Panasonic system down the road, and why? Cos it has the letters S O N Y on it. Intel are being so ignorant, they think that just because of their name and their Hi-Street popularity, they can hike their prices. All this post has come down to now is people trying to slag off people's ages with moronic generalisations such as "all AMD owners are stupid" or "all AMD owners are immature 14year olds". Well then good on those 14year olds, one for knowing to how build a PC properly and two for having a couple of hundred extra ? in their back pocket (just for the record, i'm 18 and have 6 offers from top universities in the UK to study Computer Science commencing 2003 - just to give my post a bit of credability:)) And who do the Intel hypocrites think they are saying benchmarks don't matter? Up until AMD started wh00ping intel's a$$, benchmarks were all Intel fans quoted. Processors aren't like humans, they dont run out of energy after a lot of work, if one processor runs faster than another over a period of 20secs then its certainly going to do it over a longer period of time as well! All that happens is that the greater the time, the biggerthe difference between the two. Why is it the second something comes along thats better, people are too reluctant to give in and just admit that they're wrong and could've bought something better and saved a lot of money in doing so? My AMD system doesnt even have a case fan, just a HSF, runs as quiet as anything and at a nice temperature as well. None of this "airport in my back yard" nonsense (although Irdawood blatantly went ott with his fans, it is quite obvious to the knowledgable reader that this is simply an aesthetical modification rather than a necessary one). I agree, Intel's have a far better way of dealing with heat, but Intel threw out their new technology too quickly, and as many people have said, the performance increases that benefit from the technological advances Intel have made (netburst etc) will only start noticing around higher Ghz ratings (somewhere between 3 and 4 Ghz i believe). Until that point, I thank AMD for providing a faster alternative for the current x86 technology and only hope my ?102 goes towards helping them stay ahead with their own technologies as well. May the Intel and AMD saga continue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdawood Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 very well said nick im doing pharmacy at uni what uni u applied to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typh0n Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 BTW, its great to finally have a discussion in here that I have some working knowledge of. Gotta love Neowin for bringing together such a mixuture of different people and different backgrounds. Thanks guys and gals of Neowin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtgriffith Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 BTW, its great to finally have a discussion in here that I have some working knowledge of. I'm happy to know that I ma not the only person to try the dual Athlon MP for 3D rendering. So far my users have been very happy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by Typh0n Schools buy Mac's becuase they get them at a huge discount. Apple has been doing that since I was in grade school in the 80's. Doesn't mean squat when you get into the real world. What makes the most money is what is used. Business is all about the ROI (Return on Investment). We have a couple of Mac's here, they are used for marketing (again desktop publishing and photoshop work) and nothing else. The only firms that I know using Mac's for architecture are doing elevation and perspective views of proposed buildings (using Quark, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. all of which I agree run better on Mac's), but not for CAD and animation work. I've been in the industry for over 10 years and the Mac's died in the CAD and animation industry about 6 to 8 years ago. Well they haven't died at all. In fact, its not because of hardware that Mac isn't the popular choice. It's because AutoDesk?s AutoCAD and Bentley?s MicroStation stopped making a Mac version. But it seems from what i have read and heard, Mac is the preferred industry choice. Yes the schools do get Mac discounts, but not enough to even the price with the PC. The school buys all Macs because that is the future of the architecture/design industry (according to the 2 friends I have emailed....the other 5 haven't gotten back to me). Granted what I know comes from friends and reading over the past 20 minutes. In most cases, it seems to be the same old Mac vs PC arguement. Those whole like pc, buy pc. And those who like Mac, buy Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Sony makes the best consumer products out there. Easily better than Panasonic. Portable cd players, home stereo, etc especially. They don't make the best car stereos or speakers, or home speakers though, but the price reflects that. They definately make the best game machine in the Playstation 2. Gosh...go peruse some reviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typh0n Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by superfula Well they haven't died at all. In fact, its not because of hardware that Mac isn't the popular choice. It's because AutoDesk?s AutoCAD and Bentley?s MicroStation stopped making a Mac version. But it seems from what i have read and heard, Mac is the preferred industry choice. Yes the schools do get Mac discounts, but not enough to even the price with the PC. The school buys all Macs because that is the future of the architecture/design industry (according to the 2 friends I have emailed....the other 5 haven't gotten back to me). Granted what I know comes from friends and reading over the past 20 minutes. In most cases, it seems to be the same old Mac vs PC arguement. Those whole like pc, buy pc. And those who like Mac, buy Mac. Are your friends working in the industry or attending college getting prepared to enter the industry? I read several different Architectural, CAD, and 3D Graphics magazines every month. Those magazines are always talking about current and future trends. I haven't seen but maybe 2 or 3 articles about Mac's in these magazines in the last 2 years or so. AutoDesk and Bentley left the Mac's and Unix behind because their user base was so small compared to DOS and Windows. About the only major 3D programs I can think of that are used on Mac's are FormZ and Maya. Both of these have a large user base for both Mac and Pc. I don't know of any large CAD user base that uses the Mac's. If your friends could tell you the software they are talking about I would greatly appreciate hearing more as its my job to look into other avenues when it comes to software and hardware. Btw, the biggest trend coming to architecture is parametrics simliar to what mechanical engineers have had for a decade. The software I've seen incorporating parametrics are mostly for the PC ie: Revit, Architectural Desktop, ArchiCAD (only one that is available for Mac's too) and some others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=NickJ= Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Jesus i work with the stuff, i know how much they rip the customer off. I'd only buy the stuff cos i get it for trade price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDQuiksilver Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Originally posted by bubka The only reason the Intel fanboys are so mad is because the payed the big money for their P4s so they have to back it up with something. Hey, if I payed 1,000 more for a system with less perfomance, I would be mad too. They got those "Dell systems with Intel P4... which is so nice" lol Yeah so nice because it costs $53 to make and we sell them at $400+. Go to www.anandtech.com and check out any current review to see what is the best, those guys dont care what brand anything is, as long as it has the best performance. Also, the Athlon XP uses .15m technology, Intel even took apart an XP and said it was smaller than .18. Just wait tell then Fall when its Hammertime. Intel has been at .13 for sometime buddy.. which is smaller than .15 (obviously).. oh and by the way, my 2.2 P4-based system didn't even scratch near $1000... probably about $750 for it, the mobo, vid card, p/s, and RDRAM. It's amazing what deals you can find when you actually try to find them. I don't think anybody is mad about spending what they did here, I know Im not. I'm very happy with my purchase because I know I have great expandability and such for the future :) You probably by prebuilts from Gateway anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H. Veteran Posted February 21, 2002 Veteran Share Posted February 21, 2002 yeah.. i agree NICK... Sony stuff looks good but other than that they don't offer much. They are good in alot of areas and they get praises for that but don't say they are better than BOSE or JBL or anyone of the other high ends... They sell their stuff at super high prices though and they can get away with it because... as Nick says, the letters, S O N Y appear on the front and people automatically think since it's a Sony and it's more expensive then that means it's good. Alot of other examples can be made... like clothing, come on.. $1,000,000 for a kcufing BRA from Victoria Secret? HAHA... and that doesn't come with the panties which are i think $800,000. :) There's the hip-hop clothing line like Sean Johns and i know it doesn't cost f*cking $100 to make and ship a damn T-shirt!!!! but yeah.. getting off the point... AMD chips run hot, big deal. Intel chips have a new chipset... big deal.. :) If you like what you have then be happy with it. /edit what expandability? When intel comes out with a newer chipset they change the chipset and the board accordingly so more than likely you can only upgrade couple more CPUs and then you'd be out of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdawood Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 best thing u have said shotta...thought u wernt gonna give up lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Most of the people i know in architecture are still in school. A couple just graduated and got jobs. Well the beginning courses use FormZ. But thats 3D stuff. For the more advanced courses, ArchiCad and VectorWorks are the two big ones. And to a lesser degree PowerCADD. Didn't ask what they use with PC's... And to the Sony guy...read some reviews bud. Yeah, compared to some high-end only companies it doesn't quite match up. but compared to panasonic and pioneer (home hardware), sony is hands down better. Bose or infinity are tops in the home speaker realm...I'm a Bose fan myself. For car audio, pioneer and clarion are tops. Car speakers....rockford fosgate, infinity, bose, or blaupunkt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDQuiksilver Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 my pr0n downloads faster then yours! ooooh! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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