Aaron Veteran Posted March 18, 2004 Veteran Share Posted March 18, 2004 Why don't we just create a "Pay Neowin Day" and everyone agree to click on three ads on that day. Should set them up for the year I would guess. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDogsBed Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I block all ads, popup or not. I grew sick and tired of yellow highlighted words which when clicked on took me somewhere entirely commercial and often unrelated to what I was looking at. Even if it was related, the relationship was that obscure you'd need a MENSA brain to figure the connection. Is it unethical? I don't feel it is. No more unethical than utilising my bandwidth trying to sell me products or services that I don't want or have absolutely no interest in. With relation to Neowin, I don't recall seeing any agreement to accepting ads as part of the signup deal, any more than I recall seeing anything that stated I wouldn't be subjected to them either. I could be wrong but I'm sure there was no mention of ads at all. Now, as cold and as selfish as it sounds, if Neowin doesn't have the revenue to maintain the site, that is not my problem. Conversely, what is Neowin without its Members? Nothing but a few news snippets each day. And yet, are Members permitted to advertise freely in return for their personal investment? Of course not. So blocking the ads seems no more unethical or parasitic than a site's ability to use the resource of its Members and visitors, while giving them relatively little in return. And before the flames jump up, I'm not having a pop at Neowin - far from it. Just using it as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowimnothing Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 So blocking the ads seems no more unethical or parasitic than a site's ability to use the resource of its Members and visitors, while giving them relatively little in return. I would say that the utility i receive from neowin far outweighs the utility they receive by having me as a member. I might go have a look at the agreement you accept when you sign up to see if there's anything in there about ads... i doubt there is, but it'd be interesting to know for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDogsBed Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I would say that the utility i receive from neowin far outweighs the utility they receive by having me as a member. A an individual member, perhaps. But you're not, well you are, but you're not. lol You are a part of what makes up the 'Membership', without which, there is no Neowin. So I would argue that you are every bit as important. In fact, I've seen many a site that forgets that fact and they generally end up quite dormant. But going waaaaay off topic now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowimnothing Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 i actually was trying to say "but i see what you're saying" and then say what you just stumbled over there. i couldn't figure out how to word it so i just left it off :) and i did go look at the agreement. nothing in there about ads. its actually kinda a lame agreement :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Veteran Posted March 18, 2004 Veteran Share Posted March 18, 2004 I block all popups and 95% of ads with Firefox, but I'm not depriving anyone of anything. I have never and will never purchase anything from an ad. If I need something, then I look for it and buy it. I do not want it stuck in my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuka_t Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 he is not aliing about depriving the advertisers. he means that wwe shouldd go thorough ads in order to pay back neowin for bandwidth and moderation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDogsBed Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 he means that wwe shouldd go thorough ads in order to pay back neowin for bandwidth and moderation. To which I reply that if Neowin didn't have its Members there isn't an advertiser in the world who would be interested in advertising on Neowin. And what exactly is there to "pay-back"? Let's be brutally frank here; as many fans as it has, and I count myself as one of them, it is nothing more than a second-hand news relay service and a forum, is it not? My personal view is that if the site wants to make money then it needs to start adding some "value added" services. I don't know the revenue stream that Neowin achieves via ads but it isn't going to increase as browsers get better and better at blocking ads without any real user intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravager Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I pay $25 CAN each month for my internet access. I don't need to have to sacrifice my own convenience when I can have a clean and friendly browser experience. Pop up ads don't care if you've seen the ad once already, and I sure don't appreciate having ads pop up each time I refresh a webpage. Neowin, however, I feel on a more personal level with, so I'm all for supporting the site by clicking on ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylene Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I pay $25 CAN each month for my internet access. I don't need to have to sacrifice my own convenience when I can have a clean and friendly browser experience. Pop up ads don't care if you've seen the ad once already, and I sure don't appreciate having ads pop up each time I refresh a webpage.Neowin, however, I feel on a more personal level with, so I'm all for supporting the site by clicking on ads. I agree with you, but the internet is just like anything else you pay for. You pay for cable/satellite, you pay for the newspaper, you pay for magazines. They all have ads in them, and no one seems to complain about it. The problem with ads on the internet is they are ALL over. Practically every large website has atleast one. Ad companies have made popup hads so annoying, with ones that open more popups, or those fullscreen popups, and adware and all of that "fun stuff". But really, I believe if we are paying for our services/goods, we shouldn't have to see an ass load of advertisements. Beings that I'm not the King of the World, it doesn't go that way, but it would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravager Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I agree with you, but the internet is just like anything else you pay for. You pay for cable/satellite, you pay for the newspaper, you pay for magazines. They all have ads in them, and no one seems to complain about it. The problem with ads on the internet is they are ALL over. Practically every large website has atleast one. Ad companies have made popup hads so annoying, with ones that open more popups, or those fullscreen popups, and adware and all of that "fun stuff". But really, I believe if we are paying for our services/goods, we shouldn't have to see an ass load of advertisements. Beings that I'm not the King of the World, it doesn't go that way, but it would be nice. But you only have to see the ads in magazines, newspapers, etc only once. If you return back to the sports page and you threw out the ad, you don't have to see it again. ;) Imagine having a paper ad fly out at you each time you return to the Sunshine girl page. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylene Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 But you only have to see the ads in magazines, newspapers, etc only once.If you return back to the sports page and you threw out the ad, you don't have to see it again. ;) Imagine having a paper ad fly out at you each time you return to the Sunshine girl page? :p Exactly. That's what I was getting at with how annoying alot of ads are, with the popups that open more popups, and the fullscreen popups, and adware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Taking this argument into a different environment then Is it unethical that people dont sit and watch the credits of a movie? Hundreds of people put their soul and time and finaces into a movie, and most people never even watch the credits, so is that ethical? Or TV, by this logic if I watch a TV show, and flick it over to another show whilst the ads are on. am I being unethical? Better yet, whats your solutions to this, to begin regulating and attempting to coerce what software can and cannot be used on the internet. Granted you just raised the question in search of opinions or possible solutions, but no realistic ones have been posed as of yet, so im just wondering if the author of the thread had any solutions in mind when he raised the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuka_t Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Is it unethical that people dont sit and watch the credits of a movie? Hundreds of people put their soul and time and finaces into a movie, and most people never even watch the credits, so is that ethical?Or TV, by this logic if I watch a TV show, and flick it over to another show whilst the ads are on. am I being unethical? . credits: the cinemas turn the lights on when the credits start. they dont expect you to watch them and we shouldnt be expected to. its not like im going to go out and hire the makeupartist number 45 from movie x because i see the credits. they are there more for "my friends name is on the credits list of movie x" than for advertising. TV: most sites allow you to pay membership and get adfree and dedicated dl servers and a bunch of other junk. we pay for tv monthly and the cable channels we pay for (not the local channels) seem to have the most ads. its rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winky Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Should the use of an e-mail spam blocker be punishable by fines and or imprisonment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangm Supervisor Posted March 19, 2004 Supervisor Share Posted March 19, 2004 I block them. No excuses, no pathetic little attempt at justifying myself. If there is an ad, it gets blocked. Not blocking ads tells the advertiser that the ad was viewed, thus, it accomplished at least part of its purpose. I seek to deny them of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I dont like intrusive popup ads, ad banners on the top of a page are fine, but not ones plastered in with text, and/or at the side of the screen, No need to bombard people with ads, if they want to click them they will, wether theres 1 or 10 ads on a page. I block majority of ads, but i do click to help some of the sites i frequent, like Neowin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksoul Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 Taking this argument into a different environment thenIs it unethical that people dont sit and watch the credits of a movie? Hundreds of people put their soul and time and finaces into a movie, and most people never even watch the credits, so is that ethical? Or TV, by this logic if I watch a TV show, and flick it over to another show whilst the ads are on. am I being unethical? Better yet, whats your solutions to this, to begin regulating and attempting to coerce what software can and cannot be used on the internet. Granted you just raised the question in search of opinions or possible solutions, but no realistic ones have been posed as of yet, so im just wondering if the author of the thread had any solutions in mind when he raised the question. I actually responded to this in my original post but i will reiterate. No, not watching movie credits is not unethical because they got paid whether or not you watch the credits. My whole issue is blocking ads/pop ups prevents them from showing and most of web ads are payed by the impression or click through so you are getting the content of the page without "paying" for it. TV shows and magazines have all of their ads prepaid so the fact that you are watching the station of looking at the mag is all the advertiser paid for, they assume the risk of people not paying attention to the ads. Also ad you can be used as one of the people who looks at the TV show/magazine so they can use you to sell more prepaid ads. Do you remember when steven king was writing a book and you could download the chapters for free but he would stop writing if less then 75% of the people paid? This is a similar thing, no they can't prevent you from blocking the ads, that is what makes it an ethical issue as apposed to a legal one, but you are benifiting from the content so shouldn't you be "paying" for it by not blocking the ads? Steven King did stop writing the book because not enough people paid and the same might happen here, if to many people block the sites ability to make money they will have to either find another avenue for funds (likely a membership deal) or close the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksoul Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 I block all popups and 95% of ads with Firefox, but I'm not depriving anyone of anything. I have never and will never purchase anything from an ad. If I need something, then I look for it and buy it. I do not want it stuck in my face. have you ever purchased anything through a TV ad or a magazine ad? does that mean they are worthless? You see these ads every day, so when you start looking for something to buy the companies are at the front of your subconscience. The companies are paying to hold that spot in the front of your subconscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtyVolts Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Generally, ads that are on the actual page are fine. Unless they block the entire content that you are trying to see, such as the flash ads that are on GameSpy-run websites. Advertisements that consist of a simple picture or text don't bother me. Advertisements are needed, and will always be around, unfortunately. No one likes looking at them, but they are here to stay. Newspapers, radio, television, theaters, billboards, ads on taxis and buses, etc have advertising and will continue to have advertising, even if you pay for the service. In the case of most sites on the internet, the money generated from havings ads, usually goes to site costs, not a profit for the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksoul Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 But you only have to see the ads in magazines, newspapers, etc only once.If you return back to the sports page and you threw out the ad, you don't have to see it again. ;) Imagine having a paper ad fly out at you each time you return to the Sunshine girl page. :p why are you going back to the same website unless there is somthing new you want to see? It is much like a newspaper, yesterdays paper had ads in it and you can bet when you pick up todays newspaper it will have both new content and new ads. If you don't like the ads you shouldn't visit the site. The argument that people pay for internet so they shouldn't have to look at ads is not a well thought out argument either. Do you pay for cable or satilite TV? But those TV stations have ads on them... This is because you are paying for the connection to the content and the delivery mechanism for the content not the content itself. Do you think AOL pays neowin when an AOL user goes to neowin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksoul Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 Generally, ads that are on the actual page are fine. Unless they block the entire content that you are trying to see, such as the flash ads that are on GameSpy-run websites. Advertisements that consist of a simple picture or text don't bother me. Advertisements are needed, and will always be around, unfortunately. No one likes looking at them, but they are here to stay. Newspapers, radio, television, theaters, billboards, ads on taxis and buses, etc have advertising and will continue to have advertising, even if you pay for the service. In the case of most sites on the internet, the money generated from havings ads, usually goes to site costs, not a profit for the owner. I agree, and when did we see these flash and lead in page ads that block content? I believe it was around the time pop up blockers became mainstream (coming with internet connections and with major products like googles search bar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmak Administrators Posted March 19, 2004 Administrators Share Posted March 19, 2004 You have to be aware that we don't like ads either. We managed to get by without ads for quite some time and after that we always made sure ads were reduced to a minimum and that they were carefully placed. But servers cost money and I think we already paid enough out of our own pockets (back in the days :) ). I still don't get paid for any of this even though I spend hours each day working on Neowin. All we want is to provide you a decent service, we're not in it to make a profit. We just bought an extra server (you may have noticed the speed increase already) so we will add an extra ad on the comments / articles pages. The main pages and the forum will be unaffected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PseudoRandomDragon Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Unlike most web pages, Neowin is reasonable about the ads, though there are reports of drive-by downloads for people with ActiveX on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxikk Veteran Posted March 19, 2004 Veteran Share Posted March 19, 2004 i use firefox. adblocking is enabled by default. as it is in the new internet exploer bundled in the xp sp2 betas. besides, if companies didnt put malicious behaviors or try to run java ads all the damn time, i would disable it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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