I'm converted! (windowblinds)

[RoP]

I like WB as well :) - safer more easy to use that msstyles

btw - those who say wb is slow, it's NOT. I had a win98 266 mhz pentium II and used WB for a while... it worked fine

However, beware of some wb skins... they are really harmful to the eyes ;)

In other words, they are very poorly made... when you go to wincustomize, instantly change order of wb skins to 'by rating'

Also, one more thing that I find interesting about wb... a while ago, some user named Transcendence began blasting the poorly made skins - I agree, some of his/her arguments were rather harsh but what he/she was saying was inherently true. msstyle skinners often get this wave of hatred towards they work when they produce a bad visual style... though negative, it helps them improve. I never see this happen at wincustomize. Everyone is looking ONLY or positive comments and well, they get it because they give out postive comments only too... everyone just wants to be popular. I know my opinion is probably worth very little :( BUT I urge wincustomize to have some sort of quality control.

Windowblinds have a bad name because of the many bad skins on wincustomize. People churn out terrible skins. This factory mentality causes many people to look at ALL blinds w/ dislike.

[addressing Stardock] Just imagine if the only skins on wb were classy ones - Morphium's work, Pixtudio's work, adni18's blinds, etc. no one would look at windowblinds as a bad way of skinning... people would just say that they like most of the skins, though some don't suit their style, INSTEAD of now, when people say that they dislike wb simply because all it's skins are bad

Stardock - please do something to change this attitude :) People need to realize that wb skins are really awesome - you just have o dig for them

[Redestium]

I like WB as well :) - safer more easy to use that msstyles

btw - those who say wb is slow, it's NOT. I had a win98 266 mhz pentium II and used WB for a while... it worked fine

However, beware of some wb skins... they are really harmful to the eyes ;)

In other words, they are very poorly made... when you go to wincustomize, instantly change order of wb skins to 'by rating'

Also, one more thing that I find interesting about wb... a while ago, some user named Transcendence began blasting the poorly made skins - I agree, some of his/her arguments were rather harsh but what he/she was saying was inherently true. msstyle skinners often get this wave of hatred towards they work when they produce a bad visual style... though negative, it helps them improve. I never see this happen at wincustomize. Everyone is looking ONLY or positive comments and well, they get it because they give out postive comments only too... everyone just wants to be popular. I know my opinion is probably worth very little :( BUT I urge wincustomize to have some sort of quality control.

Windowblinds have a bad name because of the many bad skins on wincustomize. People churn out terrible skins. This factory mentality causes many people to look at ALL blinds w/ dislike.

[addressing Stardock] Just imagine if the only skins on wb were classy ones - Morphium's work, Pixtudio's work, adni18's blinds, etc. no one would look at windowblinds as a bad way of skinning... people would just say that they like most of the skins, though some don't suit their style, INSTEAD of now, when people say that they dislike wb simply because all it's skins are bad

Stardock - please do something to change this attitude :) People need to realize that wb skins are really awesome - you just have o dig for them

I think people just hate the idea of paying for anything?they want everything for free.

[RoP]

Mav Phoenix - I dont know. People spend money for themselves - little things that they believe will keep them amused. WB could be considered one of these things... People don't mind paying to make their environment more pleasing.

I knwo this is offtopic - BUT I need to respond :)

[Redestium]

Mav Phoenix - I dont know. People spend money for themselves - little things that they believe will keep them amused. WB could be considered one of these things... People don't mind paying to make their environment more pleasing.

I knwo this is offtopic - BUT I need to respond :)

Many people don't view software like that though, sadly.

[Wannes]

i love windowblinds. currently i am using vector cell and before that i had opulence, 2 themes that are not bloated at all (who is saying wb is bloated). also when running opulence my wbload.exe was using .... 512k on the taskmanager which isn't much is it? it all depends on how you use it!

wb is great, full stop! :D

[Redestium]

,May 7 2004, 01:21] i love windowblinds. currently i am using vector cell and before that i had opulence, 2 themes that are not bloated at all (who is saying wb is bloated). also when running opulence my wbload.exe was using .... 512k on the taskmanager which isn't much is it? it all depends on how you use it!

wb is great, full stop! :D

Those are my two new favs. (Y)

[Wannes]

I think people just hate the idea of paying for anything?they want everything for free.

true, i like stuff free but all my software on my computer is legal. its the same as stealing, when you rip software you steal and also where will the creators get the money from to continue developping the area:no:o:

I do agree with MacThemes, those skins are awesome and i have a powerbook myself. I use a nice simple on the eyes theme there because its used at the office.

I also have a PC at the office, where i run classic on with a 3DC scheme, easy for me to work on.

but when you come home you will see window blinds, changed icons, etc just because i like changing my desktop. i never wanted to pay for customizing until i found out about windowblinds, its just great that i had to buy it. yes tehre arent that many good visual styles, but once you found a good one you're most likely gonna stick to it (no offence knightsen:p:p).

has any of those "hate wb" users checked out the guio site? if they havent they should, not all skins are bloated there, and if they have they can in no circumstances claim that wb skins aronlyb> bloated. that would not be true.

stardock is a great company, making great free and paid software. they are also not scared of piracy since they offer trial versions, these could easily be hacked, but no they let users test the software firsts and then the user's honesty will but and not pirate.

in conclusion, i love windowblinds. its just a matter of find the right skin. also remember that a wallpaper, icons, scripts can make a theme/skin look sooo much better;);)

Mav Phoenix- same here, b0se is a great skinner, and its hard to believe those were his first 2 wb skins:D:D

[insurektion]

The question is....What dows fitt's law have to do with this thread?

The answer: NOTHING!

In a perfect world, everything would exactly the way we want it.  But nothings perfect and we just have to deal with that.

As other people have said, if standard MS visual styles or WB thmes don't suit you because of not following fitt's law....then by all means design one that is.

But until you try and create one that conforms to your standards....don't knock other themes.  Everyone has their own personal taste.

What might be stress free and useable to you....might be very cumbersome and clumsy to someone else.

hahahaha

Posting doesnt make you right.

1. Fitts law has alot to do with design. WB skins dont follow this law (all the time) UCTheme do. next

2.If you dont do anything then things will work perfect. Thats right Classic is perfect. Just not pretty. next.

3. IT HAS BEEN PROVEN (read that like 5 times until you understand) that Fitts law increases productivity. Poor memNoc. Did he get restricted from this thread. Cause if he did way to go mod (Im assuming its the one he was arguing with). Good flexing you awesome mod muscles. nothing like a long day at bestbuy and being able to restrict someone for making decent points each post. My respect for you = 0 (but your too cool to care.)

[ForeverUnknown]

wb does rub me right. i've tried it before and a lot of the theme's i've seen/tried werent my style. msstyles just seems so much easier for me. also i dont like paying just for looks. but hey that's my opinion. (Y) to those who use it

[dividebyzero]

Poor memNoc. Did he get restricted from this thread. Cause if he did way to go mod (Im assuming its the one he was arguing with). Good flexing you awesome mod muscles. nothing like a long day at bestbuy and being able to restrict someone for making decent points each post. My respect for you = 0 (but your too cool to care.)

Just so you know - the beef with memNoc and the mod was with memNoc becoming abusive in trying to make his point. Sure - he had a point about fitzz' law, but he (c|w)ouldnt understand that one's man fugly and cumbersome skin is another man's beautiful showcase. Show the mods some respect - they're doing there jobs, and he stepped in when things were getting ugly.

I agree that _alot_ of WB skins are really really :x but, all a person needs to do is go look at the 2K4GUIO and that should change their mind - the signal to noise ratio wrt quality of skins is through the roof.

Personally - I'm kinda getting sick of all the minimal Luna and Mac looks - WB at the GUIO is a breath of fresh air. I'm saving up to get WB4.3 and I'm gonna ditch msstyles.

So - I think we can all at least agree to disagree, let memNoc stick to his VS' that adhere to the law, and if and when he finds a nice WB skins that does the same for him - we'll welcome him into the WB fold. Cos we're all grown-up's, right? ;)

[#Michael]

hahahaha

Posting doesnt make you right.

1. Fitts law has alot to do with design. WB skins dont follow this law (all the time) UCTheme do. next

2.If you dont do anything then things will work perfect. Thats right Classic is perfect. Just not pretty. next.

3. IT HAS BEEN PROVEN (read that like 5 times until you understand) that Fitts law increases productivity. Poor memNoc. Did he get restricted from this thread. Cause if he did way to go mod (Im assuming its the one he was arguing with). Good flexing you awesome mod muscles. nothing like a long day at bestbuy and being able to restrict someone for making decent points each post. My respect for you = 0 (but your too cool to care.)

Why bring that stupid argument back up? If you look about 3-4 pages back you will see that we settled it by agreeing to disagree.

The point that everyone including me was trying to make is that fitt's law wasn't the point of this thread and shouldn't be discussed here.

I have no problem arguing about it in a thread dedicated to it, but keep this one on topic.

And I will not get drawn back into a useless argument of fitt's law. I have found loads of WB and msstyles that are very useable and easy and loads that are big/bloaty/ugly/cumbersome. So stop beating a dead horse and let it go.

[greenreaper]

,May 7 2004, 05:28] stardock is a great company, making great free and paid software. they are also not scared of piracy since they offer trial versions, these could easily be hacked, but no they let users test the software firsts and then the user's honesty will but and not pirate.

Hehe, well . . . the trial version of WB also comes with a few fewer features, just in case they do manage to crack it. ;-)

To be honest, most "cracking" nowadays is just getting a fake credit card using it to purchase a serial. Not a huge amount that can be done about that, although it's relatively easy to prevent those users getting updates.

[Spyder Veteran]

Poor memNoc. Did he get restricted from this thread. Cause if he did way to go mod (Im assuming its the one he was arguing with). Good flexing you awesome mod muscles. nothing like a long day at bestbuy and being able to restrict someone for making decent points each post. My respect for you = 0 (but your too cool to care.)

You're incorrect in your assumption that bangbang had anything to do with memnoc's restriction.

btw.. because of your little outburst..

my respect for you = 0 (but your too cool to care.)

[Frogboy Administrators]

Both BangBang and I independelty concluded he needed restricting.

As for Fitts law, Fitts law is only applicable for maximized windows. It's not really relevant to this discussion. That said, only WindowBlinds is capable of making the perfect Fitts law GUI because it can have title bar buttons that use the entire title bar height and are on the extreme right. Also, WindowBlinds allows users to make right clicking on a title bar perform an additional action (such as minimizing).

So anyone trying to argue ergonomics should be recommending WindowBlinds. If ergonomics is a concern, WindowBlinds is clearly the superior choice.

[Redestium]

Both BangBang and I independelty concluded he needed restricting.

As for Fitts law, Fitts law is only applicable for maximized windows. It's not really relevant to this discussion. That said, only WindowBlinds is capable of making the perfect Fitts law GUI because it can have title bar buttons that use the entire title bar height and are on the extreme right. Also, WindowBlinds allows users to make right clicking on a title bar perform an additional action (such as minimizing).

So anyone trying to argue ergonomics should be recommending WindowBlinds. If ergonomics is a concern, WindowBlinds is clearly the superior choice.

Indeed, WB is a tool; it's up to the architect to make it conform to laws of usability.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

Indeed, WB is a tool; it's up to the architect to make it conform to laws of usability.

finally, someone see's the point 100% clearly

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I just read back the pages i missed while i was off the net and it seems alot of people are very defensive about the theming software they use, i pretty much got called stupid a few times so lets make this clear.

I didnt say anything bad about WindowBlinds, what i said was my opinion, if you disagree with it fine, just dont argue with me over it. I never bad-mouthed anyone or anything in this thread but alot of people bad-mouthed me. Again, if you use WB fine, it doesnt affect me, so dont argue with me over a (really) pointless thing, yes some wb skins suck and are a memory hog, but so are some msstyles skins, and i said that, im not a msstyles fanboy, i used to use WB but stoped after i found a msstyles skin i liked.

So please lets stop this argument once and for all, in the scheme of things it really doesnt matter at all.

[Wannes]

Indeed, WB is a tool; it's up to the architect to make it conform to laws of usability.

well said man, absolutely well said. (Y)

[#Michael]

I just read back the pages i missed while i was off the net and it seems alot of people are very defensive about the theming software they use, i pretty much got called stupid a few times so lets make this clear.

I didnt say anything bad about WindowBlinds, what i said was my opinion, if you disagree with it fine, just dont argue with me over it. I never bad-mouthed anyone or anything in this thread but alot of people bad-mouthed me. Again, if you use WB fine, it doesnt affect me, so dont argue with me over a (really) pointless thing, yes some wb skins suck and are a memory hog, but so are some msstyles skins, and i said that, im not a msstyles fanboy, i used to use WB but stoped after i found a msstyles skin i liked.

So please lets stop this argument once and for all, in the scheme of things it really doesnt matter at all.

Well said......this whole argument was pointless.

[Frogboy Administrators]

WindowBlinds users are much MUCH more tolerant than MSStyle "advocates".

If you disagree, try this: Go over to the Windows XP completed skins area and start saying "This skin would have been better as a WindowBlinds skins, Uxtheme patch SUUUUCKKKS!" and see how they react. And while you're at it, make things up about uxtheme cracking like saying it will make your computer unstable, slows your computer to a crawl, "bloats" things up.

Then repeat it over and over and over.

Bear in mind, we have these debates here on the WindowBlinds forum. WindowBlinds users, and they are legion, aren't trolling over in every msstyle thread saying "Bleh, another plain old recolored Luna." Or "Yuck, another generic looking GUI with the same 3 pixel borders and simplistic design philosophies."

[AgEnTsMiTh]

WindowBlinds users are much MUCH more tolerant than MSStyle "advocates".

If you disagree, try this: Go over to the Windows XP completed skins area and start saying "This skin would have been better as a WindowBlinds skins, Uxtheme patch SUUUUCKKKS!" and see how they react. And while you're at it, make things up about uxtheme cracking like saying it will make your computer unstable, slows your computer to a crawl, "bloats" things up.

Then repeat it over and over and over.

Bear in mind, we have these debates here on the WindowBlinds forum. WindowBlinds users, and they are legion, aren't trolling over in every msstyle thread saying "Bleh, another plain old recolored Luna." Or "Yuck, another generic looking GUI with the same 3 pixel borders and simplistic design philosophies."

Well said!!!

I use both, and love them both. But I lean to WB more because its simply more complete.

No excuse to bach WB what so ever. Its pointless and you have no real ground to stand on.

[#Michael]

WindowBlinds users are much MUCH more tolerant than MSStyle "advocates".

If you disagree, try this: Go over to the Windows XP completed skins area and start saying "This skin would have been better as a WindowBlinds skins, Uxtheme patch SUUUUCKKKS!" and see how they react. And while you're at it, make things up about uxtheme cracking like saying it will make your computer unstable, slows your computer to a crawl, "bloats" things up. 

Then repeat it over and over and over.

Bear in mind, we have these debates here on the WindowBlinds forum. WindowBlinds users, and they are legion, aren't trolling over in every msstyle thread saying "Bleh, another plain old recolored Luna." Or "Yuck, another generic looking GUI with the same 3 pixel borders and simplistic design philosophies."

While that is so true to a degree, I do feel that most people could honestly caree less what someone else uses to skin windows.

If zealots of both ways want respect for the programs, then we need to end this pointless arguing. It does no one any good and just goes to prove both sides point.

I guess in the end we all agree to disagree. We will never be able to change their minds about using msstyles and they will never change our minds about WB.

[GreenSkid]

Pointless arguing? - Don't be so pessimistic. There could have been at least one person who read the arguments put forth, thought about it and was enlightened. It is not a simple choice between the 2. I myself have used both and understand the value of each as do some people on this thread. Many people read without adding comments - so I would like to encourage the sensible intelligent people to leave their mark - the Ignorants are obvious to spot when the Wise is near by.

Now, I hear that WB 4.3 + SkinStudio will allow me to port MSStyles to WB! Now this would be soo cool! I totally prefer MSStyle themes like Aluminum Alloy, Milk, etc. than most WB themes. GUI Olympics has some good fresh new WB themes though.

To enjoy GUI on the next level buy WB 4.3 then download the themes from the GUI Olympics

------------

[#Michael]

Pointless arguing? - Don't be so pessimistic. There could have been at least one person who read the arguments put forth, thought about it and was enlightened. It is not a simple choice between the 2. I myself have used both and understand the value of each as do some people on this thread. Many people read without adding comments - so I would like to encourage the sensible intelligent people to leave their mark - the Ignorants are obvious to spot when the Wise is near by.

Now, I hear that WB 4.3 + SkinStudio will allow me to port MSStyles to WB! Now this would be soo cool! I totally prefer MSStyle themes like Aluminum Alloy, Milk, etc. than most WB themes. GUI Olympics has some good fresh new WB themes though.

To enjoy GUI on the next level buy WB 4.3 then download the themes from the GUI Olympics

------------

Sorry about the pessimism, this arguing over the last two weeks has really started to get to me.

Wb+skinstudio is doing an awesome job of importing msstyles on the fly. :yes:

[Davebo]

WindowBlinds users are much MUCH more tolerant than MSStyle "advocates".

I'll agree with that statement, if you qualify it by adding "here at Neowin".

If I tried to put down WindowBlinds over at WinCustomize, I'd get the same amount of childish posts that you'd get in Neowin's Windows XP Completed Skins. Of course, I would never do that, as I find WindowBlinds to be quite useful these days. It's the extreme pro and con people that drive me nuts. And yes - people that defend software too strongly are almost as bad as the people who bash it IMHO.

Idiots abound, Brad. They're everywhere... :/