after fallout Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 After reading some on this forum it occurred to me that some of the people here seem to think that PCI express is just the new way to connect your graphics cards. PCI express is a bus, just like AGP, CMR, PCI, and ISA. It is serial in nature(think firewire, usb, your mouse/keyboard). You can think of this as if it transmits one command at a time, rather than parrallel(many commands at the same time). PCI express is designed to replace both AGP and PCI. It will replace AGP, not because it is faster(although it has potential to become much faster), but because it is more flexible. The difficulties involved in putting more than one AGP port on a motherboard are staggering(on the other hand one may question why more than one would be needed). The new bus isn't expected to replace PCI right away. In fact, its designers expect PCI to be around for a while still. This is because most hardware doesn't currently need nearly the bandwidth that PCIe provides. They think PCI will stick around untill the next widely used form factor is created. Because of this, they made PCIe so that it is exactly the same from a programming standpoint. There is no difference in creating a driver for a PCIe board than there is to create a PCI board. This is so that makers of current PCI cards can switch over to PCIe with little hassle when they decide to do so. There are many uses for PCI express. Graphics is one, of course, but sound could easily eat up some more bandwidth. Gigabit ethernet is already right near the limit of what PCI can do, so imagine 10Gb ethernet or even near the limit of PCIe: 100Gb ethernet. For more reading try these(and don't ignore the links on those sites): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-Express http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.html?i=1830 http://www.pcisig.com http://www.intel.com/technology/pciexpress/devnet/ ps: sorry for the disconnected nature of this post, I have had 5 hours sleep in the past 13 days. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
oVerboosT Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Sweet man, great introduction to PCIe :D Learned more than I thought it originally was for! Thanks! :D Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2389208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsity Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Only question now is when and how much. ;) And get some sleep! :o Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2389623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Floyd Veteran Posted June 30, 2004 Veteran Share Posted June 30, 2004 thanks (Y) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2391021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radium Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Parallel interconnect does not mean that it sends multiple commands at the same time. Commands come after each other 32-bit PCI transfers 32 bits in parallell. If it want to transfer 128 bits then it has to transfer 32 bits 4 times. The previous command must be transferred before the next one, that applies to PCI, PCI-X, PCIe, AGP, ISA etc. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2391453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 thanks :D Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2392053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 A Article with some more information: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2394453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nX07 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Cool scan man' It's a good read :) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2405905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANova Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 It will replace AGP, not because it is faster(although it has potential to become much faster), but because it is more flexible. It's replacing AGP because it's faster, being more flexible is just an added advantage. If it weren't faster they wouldn't be using it. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2406058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adnan248999 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 It's replacing AGP because it's faster, being more flexible is just an added advantage. If it weren't faster they wouldn't be using it. I agree its simple if its faster then why not? I don't think I agree with: "(although it has potential to become much faster)" It doesn't have the potential to become faster its already at a specified rate of data transfer. Hence the 1, 4, 8 and 16x physical connectors. x1 500MB/s x4 2 GB/s x8 4 GB/s x16 8 GB/s Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2427985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Still some things could have been added but all in all for a quick overview of it. Was informative. cheers mate. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2428613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
icenet Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I agree its simple if its faster then why not? I don't think I agree with:It doesn't have the potential to become faster its already at a specified rate of data transfer. Hence the 1, 4, 8 and 16x physical connectors. x1 500MB/s x4 2 GB/s x8 4 GB/s x16 8 GB/s It Transfers 8GB/s in both Directions at the same time. AGP 8x transfers nearly as much - but only in one direction, from Mainboard to the Card. In the other direction the transfer is between 256 and 512 MB/s (if I remember right). PCI Express also alows to add an 4x1, 2x2 or 1x4 Lane connections ... there are eaven boards with more - 1x16 Lanes an 1x8 Lanes on the Boards needed for the SLI solution from nVidia. Its a bit sad that we all have to buy new Hardware - but I'm exited about it! But remember - only start buying PCIExpress Cards, when they are native! Bridged cards are't faster... just like the SATA Harddisks ... ;) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2440265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurmoth Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Interesting :yes: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2441940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3thal Veteran Posted July 8, 2004 Veteran Share Posted July 8, 2004 Good bye AGP :( Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2442836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
icenet Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 There's no need to be sad ;) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2443156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
null_ Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Alot of useful information in this :) Thanks. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2443384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
icenet Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 One thing no one has mentioned yet is, that AGP only transfers 25 Watt - the reason for the additional cables on ATI 9800 pro/5900XT and higher. PCI Express with 16 Laners transfers 75 Watt. Not enough for the fastest Cards - but enough for the most ones ... :) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2443554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1o9 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Fantastic; thanks for the links mate. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2475976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzo Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 They think PCI will stick around untill the next widely used form factor is created. You're referring to the BTX (Balance Technology eXtended) form factor. Since this article was released, PCI Express has become a lot closer to us. In fact, Dell is already shipping PCs with PCIe cards and Intel's Grantsdale chipset. I was suprised that the Grantsdale chipset mobos came out as ATX form factor, thinking PCIe and BTX would be released at the same time. Where's BTX? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2488439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero1 Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 PCI Express 16x = 16 lanes with a throughput of 80GB/s. PCI = 133MB/s "In practice, due to embedded clock overheads, the 16x interface gives 8GB/s graphic data throughput in comparison to AGP's 2.1GB/s". That 8GB/s is divided into 2 sets of 4GB/s (one going in each direction), so the max you will be getting out of your gfx card (data wise) will be just about double what you would get out of a AGP card. It should be a lot faster, although mentioned in the article of the magsaine i got this out of it says that CPU's are the limiting factor at the moment, not the method of transport to and from the graphics card. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2489188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickFinlay2 Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 interesting and thanks for the info Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2489204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
after fallout Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 PCI Express 16x = 16 lanes with a throughput of 80GB/s.PCI = 133MB/s "In practice, due to embedded clock overheads, the 16x interface gives 8GB/s graphic data throughput in comparison to AGP's 2.1GB/s". That 8GB/s is divided into 2 sets of 4GB/s (one going in each direction), so the max you will be getting out of your gfx card (data wise) will be just about double what you would get out of a AGP card. It should be a lot faster, although mentioned in the article of the magsaine i got this out of it says that CPU's are the limiting factor at the moment, not the method of transport to and from the graphics card. That was what I thought too. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2489252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivek7 Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 excellent introduction! :yes: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2489518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
icenet Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 @ Zero1: It's 8GB/sec @ 2,5 Ghz with 16 Lanes @ 8 Bit per Lane (512MB/Sec per Lane) - not 80GB/sec (in each direction). That is more than twice as fast as AGP 8x (downstream more than 4 times faster). Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2491484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
futb0l Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Nice, great explanation... I guess I am gonna wait till PCI Express is more universal before I upgrade my computer. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/184435-pci-express/#findComment-2503069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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