"I never stay outside for `God Bless America,'"

[threetonesun]

I'm seeing a lot of confused people here. Read about Vieques, not just Puerto Rico. It's been a big topic for a few years now, basically the US Army is completely destroying half of an island, ruining its ecosystem, and has accidentally killed quite a few Puerto Ricans in the process, and blow up some houses. Delgado has every right to protest it, many people have.

And A1Capone, if you're actually in Puerto Rico now, you'd realize a) you don't pay crap for taxes compared to most Americans, b) you're country is exploited by every US business, and c) I'd be right ****ed about this as well if I were you, and give Delgado some credit.

[bayrider]

uhmm correct me if i am wrong but he has the right not be there when god bless america plays right? its a lil' thing called freedom, be-it religious, political or ideological reasons he doesnt wanna be there for the song, its his right to do so. Its the same 'freedom' your president is waging war for over seas.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

Why is this becoming anti-american? Let's get some facts straight

1) "God Bless America" is not our national anthem and does not contain any lyrics about war

2) There is never any war hate spread at baseball games. They simply sing God Bless America and ask us to remember "those fighting in Iraq". They never ask us to support it or say it's the right thing. Whether you agree with the war or not, you should hope for everyone's safe return.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

uhh and various other places for the past 30 years or so not just iraq. and its not like they are nuclear or bio-warefare or anything just regular missles and bombs, so i see no fuss over it...especially if the pureto rican government allows us to use the island

Depleted Uranium was tested there. That's a serious health concern. There is mounting evidence to suggest that DU is not as safe as the US military would like us to believe.

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/du/s...p?sub=Editorial

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994004

[Fred Derf Veteran]

But, if the song is pro-military, then the national anthems are as well, the US anthem and the Canadian Anthem. They're pro-American and pro-Canadian, Just like God Bless America is.

Except for the minor difference that Canada's anthlem is about love and America's anthem is about bombs. That difference is also reflected in our foreign policies.

[A1Capone]

I'm not american, and this is quite confusing to me...

A) Hawaii and Puerto Rico are USA states? :huh:

B) "God bless America" is your 2nd anthem or something? :unsure:

A. I do believe Hawaii was the 50th State to join the Statehood. (or the 49th) Puerto Rico might not be a State, but the Puerto Ricans are US Citizens since 1918, after the Panamerican War, (1898) and as tiagosilva29 just pointed out, the US invaded Puerto Rico and took possesion of the Island as a war spat over Spain.

B. I don't think God Bless America is a second amthem!!

PS:And cut me some slack, I am 30y/o and I wasn't good at history either! :whistle:

[A1Capone]

What a D-bag. I wish he wouldn't be able to play American baseball.

And why is that? ;) He has his right as long as he is apt to play on the Mayor Leagues! :shifty:

[A1Capone]

I'm seeing a lot of confused people here. Read about Vieques, not just Puerto Rico. It's been a big topic for a few years now, basically the US Army is completely destroying half of an island, ruining its ecosystem, and has accidentally killed quite a few Puerto Ricans in the process, and blow up some houses. Delgado has every right to protest it, many people have.

And A1Capone, if you're actually in Puerto Rico now, you'd realize a) you don't pay crap for taxes compared to most Americans, b) you're country is exploited by every US business, and c) I'd be right ****ed about this as well if I were you, and give Delgado some credit.

Vieques is a small island off the coast of the main Island, Puerto Rico,about 8 miles. on this map what is on the square is where the Puerto Ricans use to live,and still, Aren't allowed to live outside because of the contaminations. Outside the square was Property of the US Marine Corps, and the US NAVY, now, its Property of the Interior Dept. ... anyway... to the point...

threetonesun I do pay as much taxes as you do on the mainland, only that we don't see it as you do, I culd say even more, for example, when you go to Burger King, I pay $3.15 for a #1 combo, you pay probably(depends on where you live) $2.90+tax we end up paying kindda the say anyway, if you go to pay for a PS2, you pay probably $149+ tax, down here it cost $160, so, you see, we do pay, It's just that it is already taxed!, on the other hand, so, you can see it clearlier, we do pay 6.8% for luxury tax, (i.e.) when you go pay a gold chain,or necklace, you pay your $300 + your 6.8% over the price. If you go buy a BMW a Mercedes Benz,we pay as much as probably $8,000 over you guys pay on the states!! or even a Toyota with leather seats, you pay over those leather seats, why?... because it's a luxury, it's not needed to be a basic for the car... so there you go, we do pay taxes, but it's already on the price!!.. If you don't believe me... Pay a visit down here, and you'll be surprise to pay straight $24 for a game that it will cost you $19.95+tax on the states!!

[threetonesun]

Vieques is a small island off the coast of the main Island, Puerto Rico,about 8 miles. on this map http://www.casa-ladera.com/imgs/unzoomedmap.jpg what is on the square is where the Puerto Ricans use to live,and still, Aren't allowed to live outside because of the contaminations. Outside the square was Property of the US Marine Corps, and the US NAVY, now, its Property of the Interior Dept. ... anyway... to the point...

threetonesun I do pay as much taxes as you do on the mainland, only that we don't see it as you do, I culd say even more, for example, when you go to Burger King, I pay $3.15 for a #1 combo, you pay probably(depends on where you live) $2.90+tax we end up paying kindda the say anyway, if you go to pay for a PS2, you pay probably $149+ tax, down here it cost $160, so, you see, we do pay, It's just that it is already taxed!, on the other hand, so, you can see it clearlier, we do pay 6.8% for luxury tax, (i.e.) when you go pay a gold chain,or necklace, you pay your $300 + your 6.8% over the price. If you go buy a BMW a Mercedes Benz,we pay as much as probably $8,000 over you guys pay on the states!! or even a Toyota with leather seats, you pay over those leather seats, why?... because it's a luxury, it's not needed to be a basic for the car... so there you go, we do pay taxes, but it's already on the price!!.. If you don't believe me... Pay a visit down here, and you'll be surprise to pay straight $24 for a game that it will cost you $19.95+tax on the states!!

I know where Vieques is, but arguing US testing down there is alright and good is like the residents of Nevada saying they should resume nuclear testing.

As far as taxes go, I'd much rather pay an inflated sales tax than my federal income taxes. And luxury taxes can't really be that big of a problem, how many people regularly make purchases down there that are considered a luxury?

[Fred Derf Veteran]

threetonesun I do pay as much taxes as you do on the mainland, only that we don't see it as you do, I culd say even more, for example, when you go to Burger King, I pay $3.15 for a #1 combo, you pay probably(depends on where you live) $2.90+tax we end up paying kindda the say anyway, if you go to pay for a PS2, you pay probably $149+ tax, down here it cost $160, so, you see, we do pay, It's just that it is already taxed!, on the other hand, so, you can see it clearlier, we do pay 6.8% for luxury tax, (i.e.) when you go pay a gold chain,or necklace, you pay your $300 + your 6.8% over the price. If you go buy a BMW a Mercedes Benz,we pay as much as probably $8,000 over you guys pay on the states!! or even a Toyota with leather seats, you pay over those leather seats, why?... because it's a luxury, it's not needed to be a basic for the car... so there you go, we do pay taxes, but it's already on the price!!.. If you don't believe me... Pay a visit down here, and you'll be surprise to pay straight $24 for a game that it will cost you $19.95+tax on the states!!

Those aren't taxes. They are likely just the costs associated with shipping product to an island.

[Ayepecks]

Actually, now that I read what you said a second time, how is the National Anthem not pro-military? With lines like:

Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight, ...

And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, ...

Not to mention, let's get those two unsung verses in there too:

I know what you're saying, but the National Anthem most definately is a military song ;)

Tell me you're joking... it's about how America won its independence and that war in particular.

[Ayepecks]

Except for the minor difference that Canada's anthlem is about love and America's anthem is about bombs. That difference is also reflected in our foreign policies.

...it amazes me how people will talk about something they know nothign of and assume they're right about it. :no:

[A1Capone]

Those aren't taxes. They are likely just the costs associated with shipping product to an island.

SO, you're saying, if we do become a State? We are gonna endup paying more on s/h + taxes also?? Dude, we do pay the same as you on mail services, none more, none less!! $3.95 Priority Mail!! he he he

Anyway, I am not here to talk about politics, if I wanna to do that, I probably turn on my TV!!

threetonesun, I am not saying that everything has a luxury tax, but as much as you see, everything is a little bit expensive on what you are buying! anyway... let's get back to the subject, please?!my neurons are burning as far as politics go!! ;)

[threetonesun]

Tell me you're joking... it's about how America won its independence and that war in particular.

Tell me your joking, not only did I post a quote above to its origin, I would hope most Americans would know that the National Anthem has nothing to do with the Revolutionary War, and does have everything to do with a battle.

[Ayepecks]

Tell me your joking, not only did I post a quote above to its origin, I would hope most Americans would know that the National Anthem has nothing to do with the Revolutionary War, and does have everything to do with a battle.

http://www.gbjann.com/anthem/history.htm

"The War of 1812 had been a particularly nasty conflict with the British. They had burned down the Capitol and White House in Washington, and were set on taking the port of Baltimore, which was protected in part by Fort McHenry. After an initial land attack had been thwarted, 16 ships of the British fleet positioned themselves for a massive attack on the fort."

The song is not about war. It's about that war in particular. I thought you would've learned that in Middle School.

Just in case you don't get it, I'll break it down for you: the national anthem is about American spirit. It's not about endorsing war. It says nothing at all about endorsing war. It was written during a war and has parts from the war in it because it was so awe-inspiring to Francis Scott Key.

Here's another link: http://www.usembassy.de/usa/government-anthem.htm

Mind telling me exactly how it's endorsing war and the military again? It's about the American spirit.

Edited July 6, 2004 by Scorpio

[Fred Derf Veteran]

...it amazes me how people will talk about something they know nothign of and assume they're right about it. :no:

It's not hard to see the difference between:

"Our home and native land!

True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,

The True North strong and free!" - http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/anthem_e.cfm

and

"Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,

O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?

And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,

Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there. " - http://www.bcpl.net/~etowner/anthem.html

The US national anthem has just a wee tad bit more violence in it than the Canadian one does.

[Ayepecks]

IT HAS MORE VIOLENCE IN IT BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN DURING A WAR! IT WAS ABOUT THE AMAZING SIGHT OF STILL SEEING THE FLAG WAVING IN THE AIR! THE BOMBS BURSTING IN AIR WERE A BEAUTIFUL SIGHT FOR KEY TO BEHOLD!

My gosh, seriously... It doesn't freaking say "and we will slaughter the enemy", "we'll drink their blood for dinner" or anything like that. So it has information about a battle in it. IT WAS A FREAKING DEFENSIVE BATTLE.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

IT HAS MORE VIOLENCE IN IT BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN DURING A WAR! IT WAS ABOUT THE AMAZING SIGHT OF STILL SEEING THE FLAG WAVING IN THE AIR! THE BOMBS BURSTING IN AIR WERE A BEAUTIFUL SIGHT FOR KEY TO BEHOLD!

My gosh, seriously... It doesn't freaking say "and we will slaughter the enemy", "we'll drink their blood for dinner" or anything like that. So it has information about a battle in it. IT WAS A FREAKING DEFENSIVE BATTLE.

The Battle of Baltimore may have been defensive, by necessity, but the Americans had already declared War on England and invaded what is now Canada.

Canada has altered its national anthem several times to make it more inclusive and to reflect our values.

[threetonesun]

http://www.gbjann.com/anthem/history.htm

"The War of 1812 had been a particularly nasty conflict with the British. They had burned down the Capitol and White House in Washington, and were set on taking the port of Baltimore, which was protected in part by Fort McHenry. After an initial land attack had been thwarted, 16 ships of the British fleet positioned themselves for a massive attack on the fort."

The song is not about war. It's about that war in particular. I thought you would've learned that in Middle School.

Just in case you don't get it, I'll break it down for you: the national anthem is about American spirit. It's not about endorsing war. It says nothing at all about endorsing war. It was written during a war and has parts from the war in it because it was so awe-inspiring to Francis Scott Key.

Here's another link: http://www.usembassy.de/usa/government-anthem.htm

Mind telling me exactly how it's endorsing war and the military again? It's about the American spirit.

Yeah, thanks, I know what the war of 1812 was. It certainly wasn't a battle for independance. In case you don't get it, what about these lines?

 

    Their blood has wiped out their foul footstep's pollution.

Or even better:

    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,

    And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."

Oh sure, we don't sing those parts, but they are part of the Star Spangled Banner. ;)

[Ayepecks]

The Battle of Baltimore may have been defensive, by necessity, but the Americans had already declared War on England and invaded what is now Canada.

Canada has altered its national anthem several times to make it more inclusive and to reflect our values.

Your changing the topic now (although I did contribute to that, sorry)... you stated that the anthem was supporting wars. That the anthem was a military anthem.

[Ayepecks]

Yeah, thanks, I know what the war of 1812 was. It certainly wasn't a battle for independance. In case you don't get it, what about these lines?

Or even better:

Oh sure, we don't sing those parts, but they are part of the Star Spangled Banner.  ;)

Yes, and if you know the story behind 1812 then you know what it was about and that those lyrics seem fair, correct? If not, try these links: http://www.multied.com/1812/declares.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~gfeldmeth/chart.1812.html

Oh yeah, or this one: http://www.rootsweb.com/~kyharris/1812war.htm

;)

[Toxikk Veteran]

uhh guys, this is the sports forum.

not the friggin national anthem discussion forum.

get on topic or its closed. simple.

ps, i got plenty of warnings to issue if you all want some.