Leo Natan Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Hey all! I was wondering what you guys think about the situation between Israel and the Palestinians, and the involvment of US. Since I live here in Israel, I'd like to know who do you think is right, and what should be done to stop the conflict. Thanks, Leo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcrad Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 well i dont believe in "the involvment of US". it is none of their bussiness imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagueWielder3k Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Well, Im going to tell you this from the start lol. YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT STARTED THIS THREAD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aem4162 Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 the us needs to mind its own business and let them fight their own fights. the money spent over there is needed over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3ta Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 well i dont believe in "the involvment of US".it is none of their bussiness imo. Agreed - Also the U.S. Administration needs to stop providing aid to Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3ta Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Well, Im going to tell you this from the start lol. YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT STARTED THIS THREAD! Why not? We're all entitled to our opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearded Kirklander Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I heard a dude on TV once who said we should simply ask all the people of Isreal to migrate here to the US and provide them with land and resources (equivalent to the foreign aid we normally provide them with each year) and have the Arabs purchase the land that was formerly Isreal lock, stock and barrel. I've heard of worse ideas. But in regards to an above post, it is our business if Isreal asks for our help. Much like the Kuwait invasion became our business when Saudi Arabia asked for our help to protect them from being invaded as well. At least, that is how I feel about part of it. Not sure how I feel about all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Natan Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 I live here in Israel, and I believe US should assist whenever needed, but not dictate us how to make peace. About the money, I can't give you objective opinion. On one hand, US spends much money here in the Middle East (part of it is from American orthodox jews, but not all), and sure it isn't fair to US citizens. On the other hand, with the current economic condition of Israel (because of a corrupt government), it need money, and hey, US helps, and it helps to an extent. YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT STARTED THIS THREAD! Why not? I'm interested in people's opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayrider Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 USA needs to get the hell out of there and 're-think' and re-write its foreign policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagueWielder3k Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Why not? Do a search and you will see... Anyway, on one hand the US needs to get out of here and on the other it has to stay here... after all the US always wants to show its power and its part of whats keeping it here as well as the Jewish community in the US. Also one more thing about peace, the US should not tell us or any other country how to make peace since it itself has no idea. The way I see it is that if the US wants something it sends in an army and gets it. No peace talks or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSammyx Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 i think that if it was up to normal citizens of both the palestinians and the israelis, this conflict would be solved a lot quicker. people like sharon, arafat and bush are only causing obsticales. my personal belief is that there should be one state including both israelis and palestinians and it shouldnt be affiliated to any particular religion. eventually as the pressure is relieved from the palestinians and their frustrations are relieved, the attacks will stop against the israelis, and the israelis will have no reason to attack the palestinians. but the israelis should stop with this wall nonsense, it is only going to isolate them further more, and sharon should stop making comments like telling jews in france to flee to israel. i think that the having one state will stop the conflict because the palestinians are not in a good economical position, where as the israelis are. the root of this conflict is not any particular religion, it is economical frustrations, and ignorance on behalf of both groups of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagueWielder3k Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 i think that if it was up to normal citizens of both the palestinians and the israelis, this conflict would be solved a lot quicker. people like sharon, arafat and bush are only causing obsticales. my personal belief is that there should be one state including both israelis and palestinians and it shouldnt be affiliated to any particular religion. eventually as the pressure is relieved from the palestinians and their frustrations are relieved, the attacks will stop against the israelis, and the israelis will have no reason to attack the palestinians. but the israelis should stop with this wall nonsense, it is only going to isolate them further more, and sharon should stop making comments like telling jews in france to flee to israel. i think that the having one state will stop the conflict because the palestinians are not in a good economical position, where as the israelis are. the root of this conflict is not any particular religion, it is economical frustrations, and ignorance on behalf of both groups of people. A couple things about your post: The problem has been solved by "normal people" from both sides already. One state will never happen in my opinion since there will always be the small group that wants the whole thing and I dont mean just Palestinians. There are many Israellis that would want the whole thing.. hint settelments. How can we stop with the "wall"? It has proven itself very effective in the places that it is completed and we see it as the only way of stopping them. Yes it will isolate us but we dont care as long as it stops the suicide bombings. We (Israellis) are in no way, shape or form in a good economical situation. Sure there are a couple of very very rich people here (most in the government which is why its bad partly) but the majority is poor. Do you have any idea of the percentage of unempoyment here? Do you have any idea of how much money we owe to the USA (which will never be payed lol.. its too much)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSammyx Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 you say that the wall is effective, but just think of the palestinians who have to walk kms a day just to get their schools, jobs and etc.. it might be effective in the sense of protecting you from attacks, but it is destroying palestinian's lives.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digipoi Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I live here in Israel, and I believe US should assist whenever needed, but not dictate us how to make peace. ??? Statements like this really make me want the US to leave that section of the Mideast alone. We should help out with whatever is needed but have absolutely no input. Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Natan Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 you say that the wall is effective, but just think of the palestinians who have to walk kms a day just to get their schools, jobs and etc.. it might be effective in the sense of protecting you from attacks, but it is destroying palestinian's lives.. Yes, this wall, or as Sharon wants it to be called, the "fence", is one of the biggest problems. Israelis don't understand that the terror attacks are because of the desperation of the palestinians. However, many of their problems are caused by Arafat, which is corrupt, and takes all of US and Israeli help monie to himself. Statements like this really make me want the US to leave that section of the Mideast alone. We should help out with whatever is needed but have absolutely no input. Right. You want to help, help. It is up to us to figure how to sort it out, not by any "Road Map". We have to figure how to solve the problems with the Palestinians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagueWielder3k Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 you say that the wall is effective, but just think of the palestinians who have to walk kms a day just to get their schools, jobs and etc.. it might be effective in the sense of protecting you from attacks, but it is destroying palestinian's lives.. Really?? I thought they went to their own schools, and about jobs, the ones that leave on the Palestinian side also work on that side. There are plenty of Arabs in Israel that work here with no problem and even Israellis buy stuff from them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritalin Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 The wall is like having harsher boundaries. the main problem with the damn wall is that it's in the middle of palestinian teritory... its location is terrible but the idea isn't that bad because the results are here... less bombings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Natan Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 Really?? I thought they went to their own schools, and about jobs, the ones that leave on the Palestinian side also work on that side. There are plenty of Arabs in Israel that work here with no problem and even Israellis buy stuff from them... You are mistaken, my friend. The Israeli arabs are not Palestinians. They are arabs, who lived here when Israel was founded. They don't live in Gaza, under the "regime" of Arafat. Most of them are based here for generations, and the majority are rich. Palestinians are all but rich. Every penny of theirs is stolen by Arafat. And then there's the wall, that keeps them from working, meeting with family members, denies access to schools. If we, Israel, want peace, than we should consider the Palestinian side also, not think only about ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagueWielder3k Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Maybe the ones that live in Tel Aviv are rich like the rest of the people there but the ones that live in my area are far from being rich. And I never said we shouldnt consider their side.. just kind of hard when they wont stop suicide bombings. Also about Arafat, like I said do a seach. Ive said the same things in older threads where Arafat just takes the money to himself yet no one here believes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Natan Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 All the people here are rich?! That's just stupid thing to say!! It's the same ignorance that is causing the conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagueWielder3k Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Ok maybe not all but most of the people there have more money than in other parts of Israel! You want proof just look at their cars and compare to other places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolando Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I believe it is the corruption in leadership which is causing this conflict... both Arafat and Sharon are wrong. Israelis need to withdraw to the 1967 borders... and Palestinians would most definately stop their attacks. Yet I would point a bigger part of the blame on Sharon since he was elected and is considered a representation to all the Israeli people, where as Arafat doesn't represent the Palestinian people. The involvement of the US is only making it worse because it is a biased/prejudiced involvement. The US back up Israel with weapons, machinery, and money... and then say they want peace. It's sad to see the US backing up Israel so much lately because both candidates want to win the votes of the jewish people in the US. and about the wall... The World Court has ruled that Israel must immediately stop its construction of the West Bank barrier, saying it is tantamount to annexation and in violation of international humanitarian law. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7C0...B2CE321A7A4.htm Personally I believe that peace is possible... but only if both sides are really willing to, and without the involvement of the US. The US must know that they can't make peace if either sides don't want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Natan Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 I believe it is the corruption in leadership which is causing this conflict... both Arafat and Sharon are wrong. Israelis need to withdraw to the 1967 borders... and Palestinians would most definately stop their attacks. Yet I would point a bigger part of the blame on Sharon since he was elected and is considered a representation to all the Israeli people, where as Arafat doesn't represent the Palestinian people. The involvement of the US is only making it worse because it is a biased/prejudiced involvement. The US back up Israel with weapons, machinery, and money... and then say they want peace. It's sad to see the US backing up Israel so much lately because both candidates want to win the votes of the jewish people in the US. and about the wall... The World Court has ruled that Israel must immediately stop its construction of the West Bank barrier, saying it is tantamount to annexation and in violation of international humanitarian law. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7C0...B2CE321A7A4.htm Personally I believe that peace is possible... but only if both sides are really willing to, and without the involvement of the US. The US must know that they can't make peace if either sides don't want it. You talk about peace, yet you seem only to find the Israel's/US' fault. You should also look at the Palestinians' faults (also many). US backs Israel up with money and weaponry, but Palestinians are backed by other Arabic countries, which also say they want piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSammyx Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 You talk about peace, yet you seem only to find the Israel's/US' fault. You should also look at the Palestinians' faults (also many).US backs Israel up with money and weaponry, but Palestinians are backed by other Arabic countries, which also say they want piece. the palestinians are unfortunatly not supported by other arab countries, most other arab countries are all talk about action but are unwilling to do any thing. the only countries helping the palestinians are Iran, Lebanon and Syria imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoDaddy Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 The wall/fence/barrier - Haven't the suicide attacks gone down since it's been built? US assisting Isreal - I think that all the nations that criticize us for our shortcomings/mistakes should be quiet until they help out. I think we are there because we see a problem and are trying to help. Isn't that what Americans have always done? Same thing for Iraq. The one thing you have to give Bush credit for, regardless of whether you think he is right or not, is that he is sticking with what he thinks is right. And that is a leader. Don't think anyone will say Kerry would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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