The Middle East Situation

[Starcom826]

You talk about peace, yet you seem only to find the Israel's/US' fault

[sarcasm]Don't you realize? Everything is the U.S's fault.[/sarcasm]

Personally, I wouldn't really mind an American return to isolationism, just to prove how disasterous it will be. Isolationism made the U.S. the richest nation in the world while everyone else fought two world wars that it was eventually sucked into. If the U.S. turns in on itself again, it'll become much more powerful while everyone bickers and fights. Its the truth, and strangely everyone seems to want it.

[xSammyx]

i think that america should either interven all the way or not intervene at all, i think their position in this conflict has been more favorable for the Israelis, but america has not been involved as much as they should be if they really wanted to help.

[Starcom826]

The problem with U.S. intervention lies pretty much back at home. Many politicians are either Jewish themselves, or are appealing to some Jewish base. The influence of the Jewish power is greatly disproportionate to its population. They wish to aid israel, but any full scale intervention is nothing short of political suicide.

[PlagueWielder3k]

Rolando, it pretty obvious that you say that and you are totally wrong at that as well. We need to withdraw to the 1967 borders? Why? They attacked us and we took their land because of it. Is it our fault that they attacked? NO. They should have known what would have happen!

Sharon is not a represenative of every single Israelli in Israel just like Bush doesnt represent every US citizen. He represents the people who voted for him just like Bush and every other leader in the world. It DOES NOT mean that every citizen here agrees with his actions or his views on cirtain things.

Of course you say the US involvement is biased and blah blah blah but you know what? You are biased as well. We all are and you cant do a damn thing about it. The US does what it wants to do just like every other person/country, it might be out of interest or anything else but it doesnt matter.

Now about he world court: You just showed to us all how stupid you are. If you do a little research on that "world court" you would find out that there are a lot of arab countries in it, more than western for that. Now if you would have done even more research you would have found that a lot of countries dont give a sh*t about it's decisions (US, Britain just to name two). Also, what exactly can a court do to us to make us do what it wants? The US doesnt agree with it which is the main support for Israel so whatever it does will not affect us. The world hates us as it is and its not going to change and its not because of land or anything stupid like that, its because we are Jewish.

About your last comment: We DO want peace, just a little hard to accomplish when the other side wont even want to talk.

xSammyx: They may not be supported by COUNTRIES but they are supported by very very powerful people in those countries. Also, what country will tell you that they support terrorists???

JoDaddy: The wall is very effective in the areas that it has been built. No, NO, suicide bombers have been able to get into Israel from those areas. But then again, people here and in the "world court" dont seem to see it and I wonder why...

[Starcom826]

There's a common misconception that a 'world court' or a UN decision is right and just. In reality, they are just nicer fields for countries to pit interests against each other instead of armed conflict. Don't forget the U.S. provides the most money and troops for the UN.

[Leo Natan]

Rolando, it pretty obvious that you say that and you are totally wrong at that as well. We need to withdraw to the 1967 borders? Why? They attacked us and we took their land because of it. Is it our fault that they attacked? NO. They should have known what would have happen!

You don't want to go in that direction. If it is Israel's right to be in a conquered land, than it is the Palestinian's right to be in Israel, because they conquered it in ancient times.

As you can see from my sig., I'm not a big believer, and I am not familiar with the whole "Promised Land" idea, so explain again, why is Israel the country of the Jewish nation? [sARCASM]It was promised by.... God??[/sARCASM] By your explanation, the conquerer has the privilege to keep, so why are Israelis taking it? It's not theirs...

[PlagueWielder3k]

Well if you go back enough into the bible you will see that it was our land in the beginning.

"why is Israel the country of the Jewish nation?" Thats whats Hertzel wanted and many more.

"By your explanation, the conquerer has the privilege to keep, so why are Israelis taking it? It's not theirs..." I dont understand what you are saying... They attacked us and should have known the consequences... we won and took the land.

Why is the US taking Iraqi oil? Its not theirs either... Hell, why do Americans live in north america? Indians lived there in the beginning and then unaccepted English people moved there and pushed the Indians aside.

[Leo Natan]

Well if you go back enough into the bible you will see that it was our land in the beginning.

"why is Israel the country of the Jewish nation?"  Thats whats Hertzel wanted and many more.

"By your explanation, the conquerer has the privilege to keep, so why are Israelis taking it? It's not theirs..."  I dont understand what you are saying... They attacked us and should have known the consequences... we won and took the land.

You are contradicting yourself. You say, because they attacted, and we conquered, it's our land. It doesn't metter they were here before. Then you say, that in the bible, we were here first.... So what? They took it from us, so it's theirs, is it not??

Why is the US taking Iraqi oil?? Its not theirs either...? Hell, why do Americans live in north america?? Indians lived there in the beginning and then unaccepted English people moved there and pushed the Indians aside.

Well, I didn't say what Americans did back then is OK (It wasn't at all), and I never agreed to the war in Iraq (IMO, the real motivation to go in Iraq was oil).

[PlagueWielder3k]

You are contradicting yourself. You say, because they attacted, and we conquered, it's our land. It doesn't metter they were here before. Then you say, that in the bible, we were here first.... So what? They took it from us, so it's theirs, is it not??

Well, I didn't say what Americans did back then is OK (It wasn't at all), and I never agreed to the war in Iraq (IMO, the real motivation to go in Iraq was oil).

But then it was given to us by the UN.

Also, there wasnt only one war in the bible...

[Leo Natan]

Oh, really? And who gives the UN the right to take Palestinina land and give it to Israelis?

[PlagueWielder3k]

Why are you asking me that? Im not the UN.

[Leo Natan]

You seem to aprove their actions. Shouldn't you know such question, before you use the UN?

[PlagueWielder3k]

Ah.. no. And I never said I approved of their actions, you said I said it.

[nuka_t]

Well, Im going to tell you this from the start lol. YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT STARTED THIS THREAD!

im going to tell you from teh start, the only reason these threads get locked/closed/whahtever is cuase of your racist bull****. one peep out of you and you get reported.

oh, and its NOT HAVE, not HAVE NOT. we need to work on your grammar mister.

what do i think abou it? it sucks. im a palestinain and for the wast couple of weeks ive been trying to get and israeli ID card cause i live in Jerusalem(we only came to get the IDcard then were getting hte hell out of here back to the US). DAMN, it is such a pain in the ass. EVERYTHING here is a pain in the ass. even the DSL is slower than in america :p . its a million times worse if youre a palestinian.

we went to the beach a couple days ago in tel aviv and here is a pic i took of an israeli oil tanker reaping hte rewards of the war in iraq. there was also a destroyer(either american or american made) next to it. i took my camera to take pictures of the beach, not israeli military equipment, but thats just how much living here sucks. according to my geography teacher (who was israeli BTW) when i was still living here, the only way for israel to get iraqi oil is by putting a european flag on their ships and pretending to be foreigners. its just one more reason whhy israel was s osupportive of the iraq war. people in america dont know whit about what goes on here. how do i know this? cause i lived there and i had no way of knowing what goes on in israel. since coming back though, i actually hear about how many people die every day and what really goes on. every day palestinian cities are bombed and about 20 civilians die. every single day. of course, if youre plaguewielder, that dosent matter to you. cause afterall, palestinians are just sub-human scum. isnt that right my friend?

" Oh, really? And who gives the UN the right to take Palestinina land and give it to Israelis?"

america/britain. who else?

"You are contradicting yourself."

ya, he does that a lot.

[Island Dog]

What does an Israeli oil tanker have to do with anything? Oh I forgot, it's part of the "we hate anything that has the word oil in it" mandate.

[PlagueWielder3k]

im going to tell you from teh start, the only reason these threads get locked/closed/whahtever is cuase of your racist bull****. one peep out of you and you get reported.

oh, and its NOT HAVE, not HAVE NOT. we need to work on your grammar mister.

what do i think abou it? it sucks. im a palestinain and for the wast couple of weeks ive been trying to get and israeli ID card cause i live in Jerusalem(we only came to get the IDcard then were getting hte hell out of here back to the US). DAMN, it is such a pain in the ass. EVERYTHING here is a pain in the ass. even the DSL is slower than in america :p . its a million times worse if youre a palestinian. 

we went to the beach a couple days ago in tel aviv and here is a pic i took of an israeli oil tanker reaping hte rewards of the war in iraq. there was also a destroyer(either american or american made) next to it. i took my camera to take pictures of the beach, not israeli military equipment, but thats just how much living here sucks. according to my geography teacher (who was israeli BTW) when i was still living here, the only way for israel to get iraqi oil is by putting a european flag on their ships and pretending to be foreigners. its just one more reason whhy israel was s osupportive of the iraq war. people in america dont know whit about what goes on here. how do i know this? cause i lived there and i had no way of knowing what goes on in israel. since coming back though, i actually hear about how many people die every day and what really goes on. every day palestinian cities are bombed and about 20 civilians die. every single day. of course, if youre plaguewielder, that dosent matter to you. cause afterall, palestinians are just sub-human scum. isnt that right my friend?

" Oh, really? And who gives the UN the right to take Palestinina land and give it to Israelis?"

america/britain. who else?

"You are contradicting yourself."

ya, he does that a lot.

Im racist? Look at you little ******. Get to hell out of here. You have been banned for this once and will be again so stfu. Report me, please do. Just show me one thing that I can get banned over you little idiot.

And sorry that English isnt my first language but I dont think it really matters how I wrote that sentence since its right anyway you little 2 year old.

If you want I can help you get out of here if you even are in Israel. Just tell me and Ill buy a rocket launcher from your friends and shoot you to hell.

So you saw an oil tanker, so what? What if its Egyptian? Ha? You are so amazingly idiotic its not even funny anymore.

You know what as well, every day you send people to kill 20 people a day. So again, STFU.

Why do you want to go to the US if you hate it so much? Oh yeah I know.. you are making this whole story up to amuse us. Get over yourself.

Show me where I contradicted myself else?

BTW, you have more grammer errors in your post than mine idiot.

[Dave Veteran]

Im racist? Look at you little ******. Get to hell out of here. You have been banned for this once and will be again so stfu. Report me, please do. Just show me one thing that I can get banned over you little idiot.

And sorry that English isnt my first language but I dont think it really matters how I wrote that sentence since its right anyway you little 2 year old.

If you want I can help you get out of here if you even are in Israel. Just tell me and Ill buy a rocket launcher from your friends and shoot you to hell.

So you saw an oil tanker, so what? What if its Egyptian? Ha? You are so amazingly idiotic its not even funny anymore.

You know what as well, every day you send people to kill 20 people a day. So again, STFU.

Why do you want to go to the US if you hate it so much? Oh yeah I know.. you are making this whole story up to amuse us. Get over yourself.

Show me where I contradicted myself else?

BTW, you have more grammer errors in your post than mine idiot.

5 No Flaming, Personal attacks such as flaming, instigating "flame bait", verbal abuse or mocking of members in forum posts are not tolerated at Neowin. Such posts will be deleted on sight and moderated accordingly. If you are a long standing member, act like one. Lead by example and assist other newer members rather then attacking them. We look upon our veteran members to use this opportunity to teach the newer members the appropriate way to use these message boards.

I believe the term "stepped in it" applies nicely here.

[Rolando]

You talk about peace, yet you seem only to find the Israel's/US' fault. You should also look at the Palestinians' faults (also many).

US backs Israel up with money and weaponry, but Palestinians are backed by other Arabic countries, which also say they want piece.

Arabs try to support Palestinians... yet Israel has them isolated and interrupts all cash flow to Palestine. Palestinians barely have rocket launchers... and they're fighting against a very well-equiped army. The US backs up Israel with nukes, apaches, and f16s where as Palestinians get a few AKs. You can't really tell me that the 2 supporters are equivelant.

Rolando, it pretty obvious that you say that and you are totally wrong at that as well.  We need to withdraw to the 1967 borders?  Why?  They attacked us and we took their land because of it.  Is it our fault that they attacked? NO.  They should have known what would have happen!

Sharon is not a represenative of every single Israelli in Israel just like Bush doesnt represent every US citizen.  He represents the people who voted for him just like Bush and every other leader in the world.  It DOES NOT mean that every citizen here agrees with his actions or his views on cirtain things.

Of course you say the US involvement is biased and blah blah blah but you know what?  You are biased as well.  We all are and you cant do a damn thing about it.  The US does what it wants to do just like every other person/country, it might be out of interest or anything else but it doesnt matter.

Now about he world court:  You just showed to us all how stupid you are.  If you do a little research on that "world court" you would find out that there are a lot of arab countries in it, more than western for that.  Now if you would have done even more research you would have found that a lot of countries dont give a sh*t about it's decisions (US, Britain just to name two).  Also, what exactly can a court do to us to make us do what it wants?  The US doesnt agree with it which is the main support for Israel so whatever it does will not affect us.  The world hates us as it is and its not going to change and its not because of land or anything stupid like that, its because we are Jewish.

About your last comment:  We DO want peace, just a little hard to accomplish when the other side wont even want to talk.

Israel took Palestinian land THEN the Palestinians started their attacks... Why would the Palestinians attack if they weren't trespassed, it's not in their best interest. Palestinians started attacking Israel because Israel invaded Palestinian land... and don't try to twist it the other way around.

The World Court can't force you to take action... but they can prove that Israel's actions are wrong and that what you're doing is illegal. And that's what they did. The judge who made the verdict wasn't an Arab, he's from east Asia.

The US involvement is biased, everybody knows that... simply because both Bush and Kerry want to win the votes of the jewish community in the US. They don't care about peace.

[PlagueWielder3k]

Actually NO. The land was given to us, we didnt take it in 1948. And then they attacked us. You are trying to twist the fact not me.

What the world court said means nothing. Why? Because they already had an opinion about Israel before it even started, because they have more represenatives of Arabic countries than any other!

And yes, Palestinians have rocket launchers and much more. I posted pictures in older threads!

Also, its funny how you say that we isolate them from funding yet somehow they still get weapons and tons of money to do all the terrorist attacks.

[Leo Natan]

What the world court said means nothing. Why? Because they already had an opinion about Israel before it even started, because they have more represenatives of Arabic countries than any other!

Oh, for crying out loud, don't start with the antisemitic bullsh1t!!! I'm sick of it. The best Israelis can do is cry "antisemitism, antisemitism". Have you ever asked yourself why Europeans like the Palestinians more?

Actually NO.  The land was given to us, we didnt take it in 1948.  And then they attacked us.  You are trying to twist the fact not me.

Given? So it isn't Israeli land? Or perhaps it is god's will to give us the "promised" land...

[nuka_t]

Im racist? Look at you little ******. Get to hell out of here. You have been banned for this once and will be again so stfu. Report me, please do. Just show me one thing that I can get banned over you little idiot.

And sorry that English isnt my first language but I dont think it really matters how I wrote that sentence since its right anyway you little 2 year old.

If you want I can help you get out of here if you even are in Israel. Just tell me and Ill buy a rocket launcher from your friends and shoot you to hell.

So you saw an oil tanker, so what? What if its Egyptian? Ha? You are so amazingly idiotic its not even funny anymore.

You know what as well, every day you send people to kill 20 people a day. So again, STFU.

Why do you want to go to the US if you hate it so much? Oh yeah I know.. you are making this whole story up to amuse us. Get over yourself.

Show me where I contradicted myself else?

BTW, you have more grammer errors in your post than mine idiot.

yes.

one thing that can get you banned. hmmmmmmmmmmm...... maybe saying "you little idiot"?

english isnt my first language either. and its not right anyway. its wrong.

oooooooooooooh, racist comment.

ya, cuase egyptian oil tankers just go park out at tel-aviv beach on vacation right?

i never said i hated it. i hate bush and his little gang of idiots. what whole story? its this type of ignorance that ****es me off so much.

in another thread, i dont have to show you.

"than mine idiot"

ok class, today, we learn about the comma. can everyone say "comma?"

[nuka_t]

Actually NO. The land was given to us, we didnt take it in 1948. And then they attacked us. You are trying to twist the fact not me.

What the world court said means nothing. Why? Because they already had an opinion about Israel before it even started, because they have more represenatives of Arabic countries than any other!

And yes, Palestinians have rocket launchers and much more. I posted pictures in older threads!

Also, its funny how you say that we isolate them from funding yet somehow they still get weapons and tons of money to do all the terrorist attacks.

ok, it was given. on what grounds though? is it because israelis are better than everyone else? or is it because "god" said so? either one isnt even worth the time of day.

there is a reason why people are pro-arab. ITS CAUSE THE ARABS ARE RIGHT.

oh, and israel dosent? whats your point?

you do isolate them from funding, you just dont do a very good job of it, thats all. and it dosent take a lot of money to strap some C4 on you and go blow yourself up. not anywhere near the amount of money used by israel to bomb palestinian cities everyday. what ****es me off the most though is that my tax dollars and sheckels (god damn, im getting ripped off from both sides here) are going to pay for those bombs. in the fist intifada when palestinians refused to pay taxes to israel, they jus eiterh killed em or put em in jail.

[JoDaddy]

ok, it was given. on what grounds though? is it because israelis are better than everyone else? or is it because "god" said so? either one isnt even worth the time of day.

there is a reason why people are pro-arab. ITS CAUSE THE ARABS ARE RIGHT.

oh, and israel dosent? whats your point?

you do isolate them from funding, you just dont do a very good job of it, thats all. and it dosent take a lot of money to strap some C4 on you and go blow yourself up. not anywhere near the amount of money used by israel to bomb palestinian cities everyday. what ****es me off the most though is that my tax dollars and sheckels (god damn, im getting ripped off from both sides here) are going to pay for those bombs. in the fist intifada when palestinians refused to pay taxes to israel, they jus eiterh killed em or put em in jail.

It was given because the Jews had just survived the Holacaust and were scattered all over the globe. It wasn't given becuase God said so (not directly, anyway), but becuase nations all voted to give it to them.

[o_87]

I have a simple solution for Palestinians:

Get rid of Arafat.

[Leo Natan]

I have a simple solution for Palestinians:

Get rid of Arafat.

That may solve many problems. Actually they are working on it right now. They are rebelling.