Bush Or Kerry?

[raggety]

All I need to know is when Clinton was incharge America was in the best economic state ever. Sinse Bush took over...crash!

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actually, look at the record. the crash/recession happened 4 months before bush took office. that means it happened under clinton. the tech industry was strong during that time but it wasnt because of clinton. the tech sector investors was investing in a new technology called the internet and they were willing to invest in any idea that involved the internet. they didnt care if it produced revenue or not or produced a product or not as long as it involved the internet. when they realized that they werent making a profit off their investments, they pulled all the venture capital from the market and guess what, its called a recession.

so no, bush has nothing to do with that. he actually took over the mess from clinton and has had to do the job of rebuilding the economy which i would say he has done a decent job of. he actually has turned the economy around in 3 years which has never been done by a president before. we are on a path for growth and gaining more jobs. check the numbers by the fed.

[anamericangod]

Saddam was not a treat to anyone, least of all to the US. Saudi Arabia is more of a real threat to the US since most of the 9/11 terrorists came from there and so did bin Ladin as well. One thing you don't hear is that Iraqi women were far safer under Saddam, even with his sons' rape rooms, then they are today. Crime in Iraq is far worse now to. Plus, the world is worse off now since the US invaded Iraq.

584742877[/snapback]

"Saddam was not a threat to anyone"

Good one buddy, let's tell that to the tens of thousands of innocent civilians he murdered. Poison gas, beating to death, shooting, burying people in mass graves, chaining women to walls while they are on their period, carrying out numerous political assassinations, throwing people feet first into giant plastic shredders, abusing members of his Olympic team, launching SCUDs, and defying international laws and treaties.

Your logic just baffles me, I am truly in awe.

Yes, Saudi Arabia is a pretty corrupt country on the verge of collapse. But yeah, most of the "terrorists" on the planes were labeled using stolen Identity cards. So thats right, we don't know everyone that went on those planes!

Oh that's right, you watch CNN and listen to Al Franken, you wouldn't know about factual information.

[OPaul]

a more accurate poll would be along the lines of this:

I'm voting Bush

I'm voting Kerry

I'm not voting

I'm voting other

I can't vote but I would vote Bush

I can't vote but I would vote Kerry

584742923[/snapback]

There have been many of those. This thread was for non-Americans only.

[Foub]

this thread really reinforces the fact that non-americans have no idea what is best for america. thank you

584742886[/snapback]

That would mean something if it weren't for the fact that most Ameircans don't even know what is good for them and how their actions truly affect the rest of the world. USA 5% of the world's population and uses over 30% of its resources.

[xSammyx]

That is a myth and a lie. Everytime the Min wage has gone up in Canada there wasn't a raise in unimployment either. You're so use to being lied to that you'll believe whatever they tell you.

584742894[/snapback]

it is not a myth. there have been numerous models showing a variety of consequences which arise from raising minimum wage. unemployment is just one of these consequences.

[xSammyx]

a more accurate poll would be along the lines of this:

I'm voting Bush

I'm voting Kerry

I'm not voting

I'm voting other

I can't vote but I would vote Bush

I can't vote but I would vote Kerry

584742923[/snapback]

this thread was made for non americans, so technically no one could vcote any ways. i was just to give the opinions of the non americans.

[SoNiCfReAk]

I can't believe there are probably 150 Americans or more that will vote for Bush! How can they be so stupid? And he is proud of his record. Proud of all the things that have gone wrong in the past 4 years! Pfft.

[anamericangod]

Thats everyone who is black or poor in the us then.

584742937[/snapback]

Lol, that's awesome. So, so true.

[OPaul]

it is not a myth. there have been numerous models showing a variety of consequences which arise from raising minimum wage. unemployment is just one of these consequences.

584742946[/snapback]

Models vs. Real life. Personally I'm going with the real life example.

[xSammyx]

Models vs. Real life. Personally I'm going with the real life example.

584742973[/snapback]

ok show me real life example then. show me an example where minimum wage was raised for the country and the "economy was stimulated".

[BigCheese]

I can't believe there are probably 150 Americans or more that will vote for Bush!? How can they be so stupid? And he is proud of his record.? Proud of all the things that have gone wrong in the past 4 years!? Pfft.

584742963[/snapback]

I would say something, but I would just get flamed and maybe reported.

[allfive6]

Kerry cause Bush is a moron

I am Canadian but have dual citizenship though I would never live in the US and nomal would never tell anyone I am a US citizen mainly because of what Bush has done.

[SoNiCfReAk]

I would say something, but I would just get flamed and maybe reported.

584742986[/snapback]

I won't flame you as long as you don't flame me. If what you have to say is intelligent then I'll respect and decypher it, which ever way it sways!

[aldo]

u dont understand business then. its not that simple. if minimum wage goes up, the businesses will raise their prices which means that cost of living will go up as well as inflation. businesses will pass along the cost of doing business to their customers (which happens to be u and me) and that means less money in our pockets for everyday items we need (i.e. food, clothing, etc).

u might wanna take a few business courses at the community college (BTW thanks to bush and pell grants) before u say something like that.

584742880[/snapback]

Sorry, but you are assuming that the minimum wage makes up a great deal of the economy, and that labour is a very large part of the economy. Both of which are untrue.

Imagine a factory assembling printed circuit boards (if such thing exists in the US - anymore). Let's say they pay everyone minimum wage because it's really simple to slot a component in and turn it over and solder it, especially if you do the exact same thing thousands of times a day.

I'd guess that their minimum wage labour costs are less than 10% of their costs. Most will probably go in machinery, parts, middle management, rent, utilities, shipping and marketing.

Now let's assume that these types of factory produces 1% of the USAs (totally insane, I know) wealth. That would mean inflation would rise 0.1%. Really, quite insignificant compared with the amount of money that increased minimum wage saves in crime reduction, social welbeing, more money in the hands of the poorest etc etc etc.

In the UK the minimum wage is now ?4.85/hr which is just under $9/hour. The government has raised it nearly year on year, and no-one complains. Infact, inflation is at it's lowest for many, many years.

Of course, minimum wage doesn't really pay very much in the scheme of things. A rise of 0.25% on the federal intrest rate would probably increase inflation by 0.5%, which makes 0.1% look tiny.

[ev0|]

basically you got a bunch of crazy religious (all religion is crazy as far as i'm concerned : it just isn't true and really brings out the worst in people) ignorant fvcks in the midwest and south who will all vote for bush and say " Git her done " when they do it.

Then you have the west coast (california) and the east coast and north that want to vote for kerry. So to sum up : if you plan to live in US, try to live anywhere but Midwest or South.

[Foub]

"Saddam was not a threat to anyone"

Good one buddy, let's tell that to the tens of thousands of innocent civilians he murdered.  Poison gas, beating to death, shooting, burying people in mass graves, chaining women to walls while they are on their period, carrying out numerous political assassinations, throwing people feet first into giant plastic shredders, abusing members of his Olympic team, launching SCUDs, and defying international laws and treaties.

Most of which was done over a decade ago and while he was still an American ally and with WMDs given to him by the US. The Us government was all to willing to look the other way then as long as they got what they wanted. It is no different today with Pakistan and Saudi Abraia. Now, Saddam's military machine is full of rust. And of course there are no WMDs there.

Your logic just baffles me, I am truly in awe.

Even his neighbors say that he wasn't a real threat.

Yes, Saudi Arabia is a pretty corrupt country on the verge of collapse.  But yeah, most of the "terrorists" on the planes were labeled using stolen Identity cards.  So thats right, we don't know everyone that went on those planes!

They were later identified as Saudis. There is no doubt that bin Ladin was a Saudi.

Oh that's right, you watch CNN and listen to Al Franken, you wouldn't know about factual information.

584742943[/snapback]

Actually I haven't seen his show at all. Unlike you I get my information from many different sources.

[jackwanders]

I like Kerry because for one he is willing to raise minimal wage which I believe will help stimulate the economy. I also agree with his views on several things such as homosexuality being genetic and not choice.

584742741[/snapback]

You're looking at this incorrectly.

Raising minimum wages (especially combined with higher taxes for businesses) has traditionally lead to a drop in the number of jobs being created. Why? If each employee costs you more, and your company is being taxed more, you have less money to hire new employees with. Many minimum wage employees also lose their job when the wage is increased for similar reasons.

[aldo]

ok show me real life example then. show me an example where minimum wage was raised for the country and the "economy was stimulated".

584742983[/snapback]

Raising minimum wage is not really designed to stimulate the economy. It is designed to reduce poverty and stop social problems.

Considering year on year the USAs real poverty level (ie: people that can't afford to even eat) is rising, something needs done.

[Foub]

it is not a myth. there have been numerous models showing a variety of consequences which arise from raising minimum wage. unemployment is just one of these consequences.

584742946[/snapback]

Models? We're talking about the real world here and in the real world it is a different story. Those models are based on lies.

[SoNiCfReAk]

Sorry, but you are assuming that the minimum wage makes up a great deal of the economy, and that labour is a very large part of the economy. Both of which are untrue.

Imagine a factory assembling printed circuit boards (if such thing exists in the US - anymore). Let's say they pay everyone minimum wage because it's really simple to slot a component in and turn it over and solder it, especially if you do the exact same thing thousands of times a day.

I'd guess that their minimum wage labour costs are less than 10% of their costs. Most will probably go in machinery, parts, middle management, rent, utilities, shipping and marketing.

Now let's assume that these types of factory produces 1% of the USAs (totally insane, I know) wealth. That would mean inflation would rise 0.1%. Really, quite insignificant compared with the amount of money that increased minimum wage saves in crime reduction, social welbeing, more money in the hands of the poorest etc etc etc.

In the UK the minimum wage is now ?4.85/hr which is just under $9/hour. The government has raised it nearly year on year, and no-one complains. Infact, inflation is at it's lowest for many, many years.

Of course, minimum wage doesn't really pay very much in the scheme of things. A rise of 0.25% on the federal intrest rate would probably increase inflation by 0.5%, which makes 0.1% look tiny.

584743007[/snapback]

The UK also has extremely high cost of living. The extra few dollars an hour that a guy earns at McDonalds in the UK is going to pay for his more expensive flat and tea and crumpets! j/k but cost of is higher in the UK!

[OPaul]

ok show me real life example then. show me an example where minimum wage was raised for the country and the "economy was stimulated".

584742983[/snapback]

The example was just given of Canada where no bad consequences arise when they raise their minimal wage. And I don't recall anything bad happening the last time minimal wage was raised here in the U.S. I think it's worth the risk.

EDIT

Well according to Jack31081 then the last time it was raised here it lowered the job market, but personally I don't think it can get any worse.

[aldo]

You're looking at this incorrectly.

Raising minimum wages (especially combined with higher taxes for businesses) has traditionally lead to a drop in the number of jobs being created.  Why?  If each employee costs you more, and your company is being taxed more, you have less money to hire new employees with.  Many minimum wage employees also lose their job when the wage is increased for similar reasons.

584743019[/snapback]

Where did you pull that from?

Clinton traditionally raised taxes and raised minimum wage, yet more jobs were created in that period than in any other 8 years in the USA's history.

You are woefully wrong if you think that increasing the absolutley meagre minimum wage would really effect anything.

[xSammyx]

Raising minimum wage is not really designed to stimulate the economy. It is designed to reduce poverty and stop social problems.

Considering year on year the USAs real poverty level (ie: people that can't afford to even eat) is rising, something needs done.

584743021[/snapback]

yes i know that raising minimum wage doesnt stimulate the economy. this was what i said in the begining. it was Opaul who said it does.

otherwise i agree with what you are saying. it is basic economics.

[arsekicker]

I miss placed it

I meant to say He (probly) brought it to US

don't hate me cause misstypos Im not better then you or your not better then me I just listen to what they have to say and bush said make a world better place but that doesn't mean kerry will do the same thing he did say he agreed with bush to make the world a better place in the speech

it was on the debate with both of them speaking together.

584742872[/snapback]

Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner. If we held a vote for a supermod for neowin and everyone voted like Bush supporters in this "election" this guy would get elected. I mean, just because he has no grasp of the situation, communicates poorly, and may be snorting coke right now doesn't mean he couldn't run neowin right? Guys? Hello?

[SoNiCfReAk]

Where did you pull that from?

Clinton traditionally raised taxes and raised minimum wage, yet more jobs were created in that period than in any other 8 years in the USA's history.

You are woefully wrong if you think that increasing the absolutley meagre minimum wage would really effect anything.

584743039[/snapback]

It's too bad our health care system may go down the drain though, we will need more money in our pockets to pay for that! :(