official World of Warcraft

[gregb0b]

2 new pvp mounts are back in the game. Hopefully they dont cause crashes now =P

[Golferjim]

2 new pvp mounts are back in the game. Hopefully they dont cause crashes now =P

Do you know what the new mounts are going to be?

[Dotdot]

Do you know what the new mounts are going to be?

ALLIANCE

HORDE

[Miuku.]

Heh, another mount that tauren can't ride but oh look at the surprise - on the alliance side everyone can use their respective mount.

Much like with the undead mount Blizzard declared that tauren couldn't ride them because there were graphical issues - surprisingly enough you can actually ride an undead horse on a tauren - either the Baron drop or Attumen and there are no clipping issues or otherwise.

Also you can use the model viewer to mount one on the warstrider and there are no graphical issues there either. Sigh, it's just typically retarded from them and all they can come up with are lame excuses.

It can't. Really wanting that new badge gear.

One of the worst mistakes Blizzard ever made - it makes raiding for us old timers completely void of any reason. I've seen old time raiding guilds break because of "ezmode" welfare epic hunting or the arenas where you can just take the necessary matches and idle at AV later to gain top end gear for absolutely no effort at all.

Killing Illidan once was fun, after the tenth time it started to "get a bit boring" just to get that one item all the arena kids can get for practically free.

Edited March 4, 2008 by daPhoenix

[Slane]

I don't like the PvP system, makes it too easy to get epic's but they had to do something to combat raiders destroying PvPer's. Granted I didn't like the badge gear. I mean I though badge gear should only stay at kara level to help people progress and maybe one or two items that are on par with the higher raids, but not tons of gear. The new warrior stuff is near T6 equilvant for 75-100 badges. Which with badges from bosses and dailies isn't hard to get.

I plan on picking up the new belt (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34941) and maybe the legs, and use them to help my guild progress. A well geared MT can help with encounters.

[the evn show]

One of the worst mistakes Blizzard ever made - it makes raiding for us old timers completely void of any reason.

If you're raiding for gear, you've been wasting your time. I like to raid for a combination of the story-line content, the challenges of completing encounters, and the social aspect. My character gets to look pretty cool, but I was never under any impression that my fancy gear would be amazing for any length of time.

Raid guilds failing isn't anything new. How many guilds did Vael destroy? The state of raiding with Gruul/Mag 1.0 wrecked one of mine raid guilds, SSC trash+TK attunements killed another. Twin-emps and Patchwerk (and Naxx's requisit pre-raid farming) did a number on raiders back in the day too.

I've seen old time raiding guilds break because of "ezmode" welfare epic hunting or the arenas where you can just take the necessary matches and idle at AV later to gain top end gear for absolutely no effort at all.

I've seen just as many "would never raid past karazhan" guilds crack in to 25-man content because they're not forced to spend months hoping for upgrades that may-or-may-not drop.

Killing Illidan once was fun, after the tenth time it started to "get a bit boring" just to get that one item all the arena kids can get for practically free.

That's not a problem with raiding vs. welfare, it's a problem with raid itemization and the random loot tables. I'd like to see:

• AQ-style weapon token drops
  
• 1 of each of the 3 set-piece token from Tier-N bosses
  
• Head-quests for trinkets, rings, etc. from some bosses
  
• Rep rewards for some items (back, second trinket, ring)
  
• BOE crafted items requiring boss-drops for other slots (bracers, belt, boots).
  
• Each boss dropping 1-2 pieces of "random" loot from their table that can be exchange (similar to sunwell gear).
  

I totally agree that farming the hell out of old content for one or two items sucks. The fact that for some of us (about 5%) there's simply nothing else to do right now just makes the problem even more pressing. Once Hyjal/BT are done for the week there's no way to upgrade your character until next Tuesday.

Edited March 4, 2008 by the evn show

[SMELTN]

You know I am not looking forward to 2.4 except the new content.. Really just ****es me off how Blizz is dumbing the game down.

I mean I know why they are doing it, and it makes sense, so that everyone gets to see the content they worked so hard at creating, but still sucks for us top end guilds that did all the work for nothing it seems.

[the evn show]

You know I am not looking forward to 2.4 except the new content.. Really just ****es me off how Blizz is dumbing the game down.

Exactly what percentage of your fun is "unhad" by letting terrible players (relatively speaking) kill easy-mode magtheridon and farm heroic badges until their eyes bleed for a piece of gear that you and I have had access to for months?

Likewise, there's nothing stopping me making use of those exact same easy-mode rewards to gear up my alts or to fill holes in my gear where the RNG hasn't been kind (I know for certain if I buy the heroic badge chest, the very next week I'll get a T6 token from Illidan or the Sunwell trash-pattern: this game has it out for me). Does anybody really expect a Lurker + Voidreaver (or worse) guild to get past that last-trash pull before Naj'entis? Likewise, if they can't spread out after shatter, what chance to they have against Death n' Decay and/or Carrion Swarm?

On the off chance a guild does manage to skip most of Tier 5 and still kill Illidan: grats to them. Most of Tier 5 sucks (if it didn't raid guilds won't swear off the zones as soon as they had 25 people attuned for Tier 6).

Just for the sake of argument, lets assume Johnny Q. Karazhan decides he or she wants the iLevel 128+ badge gear.

Pants: 100

Chest: 100

Ring: 60

Cape: 60

Gloves: 75

Main-hand: 150

Offhand: 35

Bracers: 35

That's 615 badges. Assuming a heroic Mechanar every day, they'll complete the set by the time I'm upgrading to Tier 8 (assuming the next expansion drops in 4 months). Add in full clears of Karazhan and keep running heroic Mechanar every day and they're still looking at taking until expansion to get all those pieces. If anybody is willing to do 150 clears of Mechanar and spend one full week of real-life time farming Karazhan they can have their welfare gear.

What are they going to do when they finally get it? Farm more Karazhan and heroic Mechanar? Get Primal life 5% faster?

[Sethos]

Edit: Disregard this.

[Slane]

Evn right. I don't see how removing attuments matters to anyone else. Blizzard is just trying to allow everyone to see content. In a few months, this content will be useless, as the expansion will drop, and the cycle will continue in WotLK. Getting upset about it, doesn't do anything.

Top end guilds, got there rewards and e-peens stroked (not attacking anyone) when they were some of the first in the world/server to experince content, grab the loot, and show everyone else what the fights were like, etc. etc. Most guilds I know who have the content on farm, don't really care that they removed attuments. Because the most a Kara/Gruul guild might be able to do in BT/MY is kill trash, and why would they farm trash for gear when that time would be better spent progressing on there level.

The only thing the attuments removal means is that the current content is getting ready to be forgotten, and they won't to allow everyone to see as much as possible. Just like how they are bringing back Naxx in WotLK.

[Miuku.]

Exactly what percentage of your fun is "unhad" by letting terrible players (relatively speaking) kill easy-mode magtheridon and farm heroic badges until their eyes bleed for a piece of gear that you and I have had access to for months?

Because they don't really have to farm any of that, instead they can use an hour a week (or usually less since on our battlegroup the arena times are sub 1 minute during weekends) to get the same gear we had to pioneer for, farm pots, gold and spend hours on end wiping on bosses they couldn't down even if they just stood still doing nothing.

Do tell me, what sense is there going to Gruul/Mag/SSC and TK when you can get superior gear for less than a percent of the time and effort required to clear any of those instances?

What annoys me is Blizzards constant punishiment of raiders and favoring the PVP crowd at the expense of the core game - I guess the whole "omg arena purplz craze" adds longeviity to the game and thus more dollars to their pocket.

"

[Bawx]

Was just asking in town if anyone can pick a box for me, someone random dude PM'd me tro get a Rogue, I was like thanks, will do. Then a min. later whispers me and is like, what gear do you need? Blah blah..

Ended up giving me all this gear, making me a bunch of things, rings, shirts, necklace, enchants my Illusionary Rod, hops on his 70 helps me kill Galgrosh (i think his name, 42 elite).

So random and nice. He was like "I help a lot of people, I hope you do the same and be nice to others".

[the evn show]

Because they don't really have to farm any of that, instead they can use an hour a week (or usually less since on our battlegroup the arena times are sub 1 minute during weekends) to get the same gear we had to pioneer for, farm pots, gold and spend hours on end wiping on bosses they couldn't down even if they just stood still doing nothing.

I hated the required consumables raiding that was around 2.0. Nobody wants to farm for 3+ hours to spend a night raiding and anything they do to reduce the burden on people new to raid content is a good thing in my opinion.

Does Macroing a Super Mana potion to my Greater heal button or being the most efficient flower-picker make me a better healer?

Do tell me, what sense is there going to Gruul/Mag/SSC and TK when you can get superior gear for less than a percent of the time and effort required to clear any of those instances?

Because PvE content is fun? If people don't think PVE is fun, why should they feel compelled to do it?

What annoys me is Blizzards constant punishiment of raiders and favoring the PVP crowd at the expense of the core game - I guess the whole "omg arena purplz craze" adds longeviity to the game and thus more dollars to their pocket.

Letting more people experience content I've been done with doesn't punish me in the slightest, nor does letting them have access to passably good gear without 25-man raiding. I guess I don't follow the argument that in order for Tier 6 to be fun, people should be forced to slog through Tier 4 & 5 first, nor the argument that for Tier 6 to be fun a significant portion of the population has to be in substantially worse gear than me.

I wouldn't say getting the new badge-reward weapons are "easy" (3 months of karazhan clears for 1 slot!), the content might be easier, but farming that stuff for a single item that long is soul-crushing on a level equal to SSC 1.0 trash.

[gregb0b]

Yeah I am kind of p'oed about the tauren mount issues again, but any ways check out my druid I'm speed leveling... I literally got to 60 with level 20 and 30 blue gear haha. Now I'm replacing all the gear with the outlands stuff check out my helmet....

My brother says it looks like a trash bag :(

My /played is at 4 days 17 hours @ level 61 :).

[Art3x]

You're bad Mr Smeltn ;p

[Miuku.]

Because PvE content is fun? If people don't think PVE is fun, why should they feel compelled to do it?

You're missing the point - most of the PVE content *isn't* fun because it's, especially for relatively poorly equipped players, a more of a hit and miss where a single unlucky hit can wipe your entire raid - not to mention the time vs rewards is poorly balanced - gear that you get from BT *should* be much better than you can get anywhere else in the game because to get there you have spent countless hours in steady progression.

I guess I don't follow the argument that in order for Tier 6 to be fun, people should be forced to slog through Tier 4 & 5 first, nor the argument that for Tier 6 to be fun a significant portion of the population has to be in substantially worse gear than me.

That's not my point - my point is that the people who have not invested the same time and effort as I have into the game should not, not now or ever, have the same quality of gear as I do. I know the old argument is "but they're paying the same monthly fee!" but on the other hand there should be a clear cut line between time invested and rewards - not giving everything to the kids for free like they are doing now.

I wouldn't say getting the new badge-reward weapons are "easy"

They're not easy - they're afk-lol-easy. You can solo heal Karazhan all the way to Prince and heroics are nothing more than a joke but you're still missing the point - people don't even need to go to heroics as they can use a little bot program to gain similar gear in PVP.

Now that the bosses will actually drop MORE badges, the time to gain them is even less than before.

[Spookie]

not to mention the time vs rewards is poorly balanced - gear that you get from BT *should* be much better than you can get anywhere else in the game because to get there you have spent countless hours in steady progression.

It still is. You still have the t6 sets. You still stand out. You still have randoms stroking your e-****. They will be running around with badge loot.

If you took a step back. You'd see it would be amazing for guilds who have progressed far and have players looking to take a break from their mains. But don't want to loose the player behind the keyboard. Now, in their own time, they can get geared up. To a point, then join the rest of the raid in 25 mans and essentially pick up where their main left off.

I know the old argument is "but they're paying the same monthly fee!"

How about the other old argument: "paying ?8.99 a month doesn't get you on the board of directors".

They're not easy - they're afk-lol-easy. You can solo heal Karazhan all the way to Prince and heroics are nothing more than a joke but you're still missing the point - people don't even need to go to heroics as they can use a little bot program to gain similar gear in PVP.

You can't solo heal Kara. Not if you're talking about your average pick up group player. PvP gear doesn't even compare to PvE. You don't see 'end game guilds' saying: 'LF T6 Protadin PvP S3 gear also acceptable'.

If this post seems hostile. It's because it is. The whole elitist attitude about this opening of instances and welfare epics annoys the living daylights out of me.

[gregb0b]

I agree with Spookie. The countless hours of raiding a dungeon only effects the top 3 progressing guilds. Like Nihilum EU, DnT US, Aurora US, etc. After that, many strategy's are posted and content becomes some what easier for every one to clear. When you pvp in the arena and have a reputable arena rating, every single game is different even if you're playing the same team. Thats why arena to me is far more superior to raiding now.

Heres an example: If you look at boss killers there is definitely a pattern to boss kills on both EU and US servers. It only took a guild on my server 2 weeks to clear up until Illidan the 1st time they steped foot into BT.

Now, with badgeable gems(15 badges for BT Gems), badgeable gear and more arena season gear, the only reason to PvE is to fulfill the desire you have to down bosses based on lore and as a whole group of 25 people. Even then I still had more gratitude to kill **** with 40 people.

Edited March 5, 2008 by gregb0b

[Miuku.]

It still is. You still have the t6 sets. You still stand out. You still have randoms stroking your e-****.

Not really - if you haven't seen, the vengeful set is 1:1 with the T6. Incidentaly, I've been mostly idling at the Arenas and I now have a full set and I'm a Shaman. Ding ding, perhaps the worst possible class for 2v2 and 3v3 and yet I've managed to scrape every single PVP reward there is to get and I've invested less time in the arenas or BGs than I did learning the?boss?fights?in?TK.?

How about the other old argument: "paying ?8.99 a month doesn't get you on the board of directors".

Don't know - looking at your gear I'd say you've been absolutely nowhere and done absolutely nothing in the game to warrant any opinion of yours being worth anything - sounds more like you're one of the people who feel your few pounds entitle you to everything in the game for no effort of any kind.

Why don't they just let you push a button and gear you up with the best stuff in the game - then you can go "pwn" in the arenas and BGs. Wouldn't that be nice - that is, after all, what you people expect?

You can't solo heal Kara.

Just did last weekend - also had the tank gear up in 60s gear to give the place a little "difficulty curve" - admittedly we did have SPs with us but still.

If this post seems hostile. It's because it is. The whole elitist attitude about this opening of instances and welfare epics annoys the living daylights out of me.

Why?do?you?think?people?in?the?UK?complain?about?chavs??Because?they?don't?have?to?do?anything?to?gain?the?same?benefits?as?everyone?else - ring a bell?

When you pvp in the arena and have a reputable arena rating, every single game is different even if you're playing the same team.

Of course. Except most of the matches are already determined before the first hit falls depending on what combination of classes you're facing this time.

"Oh but skill.." has nothing to do with most of the outcomes on the arena. Even Blizzard has admitted that some classes are simply not suitable for the arena with certain talent combinations. Ironically our little druid friend a few posts up is a prime example of a completely useless class in anything above 2v2 and even there only as a resto. Other than that I laugh myself to tears everytime some boomkin or feral tries to kill me.

[Spookie]

Not really - if you haven't seen, the vengeful set is 1:1 with the T6. Incidentaly, I've been mostly idling at the Arenas and I now have a full set and I'm a Shaman. Ding ding, perhaps the worst possible class for 2v2 and 3v3 and yet I've managed to scrape every single PVP reward there is to get and I've invested less time in the arenas or BGs than I did learning the boss fights in TK.

But it's still not the PvE T6 am I correct? You still get the rare mounts, loot, bonuses and you still get to see and attempt the content most will never see beyond boss slayings on youtube?

Don't know - looking at your gear I'd say you've been absolutely nowhere and done absolutely nothing in the game to warrant any opinion of yours being worth anything - sounds more like you're one of the people who feel your few pounds entitle you to everything in the game for no effort of any kind.

Why don't they just let you push a button and gear you up with the best stuff in the game - then you can go "pwn" in the arenas and BGs. Wouldn't that be nice - that is, after all, what you people expect?

I can quite easily say I've cleared nearly all Pre-TBC (Four Horsemen on my Troll Priest) content and now I'm back playing TBC, working my way throughly through the new content on another toon than the one in my signature. My opinion, if anything, is more valid! At least I can see the forest from the trees. :)

The fact of the matter is, blizz is a company. They don't care about your ego or your guild, they want your money. If it means ****ing off the, vocal, less than 10% who can end game raid. So that the 90% who will never see BT get something enjoyable to do. That's their choice. Does it not occur to you that you getting upset about a game does not show signs you yourself need a break from the 25 mans?

Why do you think people in the UK complain about chavs? Because they don't have to do anything to gain the same benefits as everyone else - ring a bell?

WoW is a game. Kindly get a grip. They are nothing alike.

[Bawx]

Yeah I am kind of p'oed about the tauren mount issues again, but any ways check out my druid I'm speed leveling... I literally got to 60 with level 20 and 30 blue gear haha. Now I'm replacing all the gear with the outlands stuff check out my helmet....

My brother says it looks like a trash bag :(

My /played is at 4 days 17 hours @ level 61 :).

Please tell me how you level'd so fast. :( That's depresseing.

[gregb0b]

Joana's leveling guide :). I've have used it for 4 of my characters now

http://www.joanasworld.com/ It's 100% Legal, Its basically a step by step guide on what quests to do etc.

[+orgitnized Subscriber¹]

Bawx, are you Horde or Alliance?

I use Jame's Horde Leveling Guide which is totally free and absolutely fantastic and very very quick. If you are looking for something free now, and easy to print out and understand, grab it.

Here's the Alliance version

[Noveed]

just got the trial online but it wont let me invite people into my group which is a bit rubbish, i need to make it into a full one but it says i need a Retail Authentication Key, where can i get one from its late and all the shops are shut what is this key anyway? Cant i just give my credit card details and they change trial into fulll?

[Prosidius]

On the off chance a guild does manage to skip most of Tier 5 and still kill Illidan: grats to them. Most of Tier 5 sucks (if it didn't raid guilds won't swear off the zones as soon as they had 25 people attuned for Tier 6).

I just would like to say that Tier 5 itself doesnt suck but rather the zones the gear is in do. We're on kael and I cant wait till kill him and slowly phase out SSC and later tempest keep. We've actually gotten to the point where our alts will be coming in for some of the Tier 5 drops.