World of Warcraft

By Redestium
in PC Gaming

 Share

Recommended Posts

Grand Master

Noveed

Posted
Posted

spending more and more time on the ptr, it seems BM hunter damage is insane, way overpowered. Stack Mastery and with decent gear its easy to reach 52-60% more pet damage.

Currently pet is doing around 8k dps whilst the bm hunter is doing 4-5k dps. Its insane, ive seen KC crit for 58k. One shotting Plate wearers in duals, frost mages are still having my life but you know... they are mages.

Experienced

I am Redbeard

Posted
Posted

I for one, after completing Loremaster of Outland, and all but Zul'Drak and Icecrown for Northrend, think that Northrends quest were much more fun. Borean and the D.E.H.T.A (sp?)?? Sholazar and Hemet Nesingwary again?? dragonblight and the famous chain I can't think of the name ?? Grizzly Hills and it's beauty??

Haha, I don't know. My opinion I guess. I just got sick of the nethery-ness of Outland.

Grand Master

treemonster

Posted
Posted

except for the samll short zone with the nesingway quests, i found wotlk land to be incredibly boring and poorly designed over all. there was an interesting quests here and there, and the quest where you drive some kind of vehicle with it's own skillset was fun the first couple times.

but i disliked how you had to spend so much gold at 65 to be able to fly again and you couldn't fly over wintergrasp so you spent a long time flying around it( i didn't have an epic flying mount either, which didn't help) how there were only a few quests in certain zones that didn't even last a whole level, but you spent like 3 or 4 levels in that dreary grey coloured troll themed zone that all teh quest hubs were scattered all over teh place so you spent tonnes of time running around, and how early on in wotlk, if you don't do at least 90% of the previous zone's quests by the time you reach 78 there are slim picking in the 78-80 zones against mainly level 80 mobs(at least this happened to me, my bro told me to grind dailies to 80)

it just didn't feel as well designed as tbc land, or have as good a flow with lots of overlap between teh zones and an abundance of quests even after hitting 70 so if you just wanted to do regular quests at endgame for extra gold instead of dailies you could.

i think another thing that annoyed me about wotlk, was in tbc i got some really cool spells after 60 on my mage, and cool talents such as the temp summon in teh frost tree, but in wotlk all i got was a conditional 3 second stun and a spell that did about the samount of damage as my frost bolt for more mana cost(?) and no slow effect but acted as either frost or fire depending on what the mob was resitant to. no idea if it was ever useful in pve raids or not, but as a world pvper it was useless to me.

i never got to try wintergrasp, as it was always the wrong time of day when i want to play, and i never felt like semi afking until it started. and from what i hear it was massively laggy even after they imposed the 200 player limit and the vehicle combat kinda sucked. also it seemed to be a poor excuse for world pvp, and might as well have been totally instanced like AV, with a constant queue and so on.

i did have fun in the DK starter zone, but early on wotlk you could just tell they were so OP, and playing the class felt like i was just pressing random buttons and winning everytime. the pull spell that grabs a target and brings it to you was so OP in pvp it wasn't funny, as it was both an interupt and a way to isolate a player from his party and out of range of his healers and also prevent him from healing. from what i hear DKs dominated in arena for a long time before getting nerfed as well.

overall wotlk just felt subpar to me. most of the zones used alot of grey and brown in their colour scheme so it kinda felt like i was playing WAR again. imho :p

Grand Master

the evn show

Posted
Posted

but i disliked how you had to spend so much gold at 65 to be able to fly again and you couldn't fly over wintergrasp so you spent a long time flying around it( i didn't have an epic flying mount either, which didn't help)

Minimum flying level was 70 in TBC and 78 in WoTLK, you could fly for free if you were willing to tollerate "old crappy mcweaksauce" in WoTLK. The majority of PVE content was blocked in TBC if you weren't prepared to shell out for a flying mount - that's no longer the case.

how there were only a few quests in certain zones that didn't even last a whole level, but you spent like 3 or 4 levels in that dreary grey coloured troll themed zone that all teh quest hubs were scattered all over teh place so you spent tonnes of time running around, and how early on in wotlk, if you don't do at least 90% of the previous zone's quests by the time you reach 78 there are slim picking in the 78-80 zones against mainly level 80 mobs(at least this happened to me, my bro told me to grind dailies to 80)

I hate questing. I only do the minimum amount required to level and I've never been a "quest for gold" type because I've had a 5 or 6-figure bank balance since before 99.9% of the players could even step foot into Tier 5 content.

  • 105/105 Howling Fjord
  • 150/150 Borean Tundra
  • 130/130 Dragon Blight
  • 75/75 Sholozar Basin
  • 1/75 Grizzly Hills
  • 23/100 Zul'Drak
  • 46/100 Storm Peaks
  • 66/140 Ice Crown

That's roughly 270 'free' quests available at level 80 not counting any of the daily quests.

it just didn't feel as well designed as tbc land, or have as good a flow with lots of overlap between teh zones and an abundance of quests even after hitting 70 so if you just wanted to do regular quests at endgame for extra gold instead of dailies you could.

I hated questing at 60 too, and in TBC I did the bare minimum number required to hit 70 and become attuned to end-game content (IE: you couldn't zone into Black Temple without doing the Gorefiend's Armor quest chain).

The only exceptions would be unlocking the daily quests at blades-edge mountains and Netherwing ledge in order to gain access to the mounts from those factions. It's reasonable to use my quest history as an approximation of the minimum amount of work you had to do in order to level from 60-70 in TBC.

  • Hellfire: 64/90
  • Zangarmarsh: 41/54
  • Terokkar: 48/68
  • Negrand: 68/87
  • Blades edge: 86/86
  • Netherstorm: 70/120
  • Shadowmoon Valley: 81/90

That's about 140 free quests at 70. There were nearly twice as many left-over quests at 80 than there were at 70 assuming you did the minimum amount required to experience all of the content in the game. WoTLK also has substantially more daily quests than TBC if you're into grinding.

i think another thing that annoyed me about wotlk, was in tbc i got some really cool spells after 60 on my mage, and cool talents such as the temp summon in teh frost tree, but in wotlk all i got was a conditional 3 second stun and a spell that did about the samount of damage as my frost bolt for more mana cost(?) and no slow effect but acted as either frost or fire depending on what the mob was resitant to. no idea if it was ever useful in pve raids or not, but as a world pvper it was useless to me.

Frostfire bolt slows the target by 40%. I can understand that you might not get how it interacts with frost and fire talents but to miss something in the tooltip…

Along with new spells (mirror images) you also gained the ability to chose bits-and-pieces from other talent trees. The additional talent points allowed for a greater variety of viable biulds in both PVE and PVP. Without them every mage would have been stuck with snare-spam specs for PVP and Fireball spam specs for PVP.

In addition to your class specific stuff we've seen the random dungeon finder, several new battle grounds, infinitely more accessible raid content, and a way for your re-rolls and alts to attain a base level of competitiveness in short order. Professions offer more variety than ever before and multiple talent specs allow you to easily experiment with PVE and PVP or different roles like healing or tanking.

Today I have 3 king slayers, 2 with ICC glory drakes and a schedule that totals about 9 hours per week. I played about the same amount of time in TBC and was probably one of 50 people on our server to have more than one toon with tier 6 set bonuses. The Odds of me ever having two characters in full best-in-slot sunwell gear were bascially zero. Today the only thing blocking me from full ICC25h on all three toons is bad luck with the RNG and the fact that our Friday night alt runs is more about having a few drinks with friends than actually killing internet dragons.

Wrath was a pretty solid expansion, certainly worth the $2 per month that it ended up costing.

Grand Master

treemonster

Posted
Posted

hmm interesting. obviously some mistakes on my end(lol@65, i meant 75, when iirc you got cold weather flying around the same time you get access to dalaran, but again i'm probably wrong).

i only spent time on my mage in wotlk around the start of wotlk so obviously i am wrong about alot of what i was qqing about above, but i am pretty sure frost fire bolt didn't slow targets down when i played. idk, maybe this was changed at some point? i remember looking at the tooltip and wonderwhat the point of it was, and then trying it out during questing and finding it useless for what it was, and going back to regular old frost bolt.

as for number of quests, i'm sure they added some since then, but back then i either had lower level quests i didn't want to do for some reason, or had quest against level 80 mobs, at 78. in tbc at 70 i had lots of quest left in the purple zone even after questing 2-3 days a week there after hitting 70, and many more in the grey and green zone with BT in it. not including attunemnt quests and quests for mounts. though i won't pretend to know the number of quests in each expansion at launch. i spent a single day doing all teh quests in the zone in wotlk with nesingway quests.

to me, tbc was just funner overall. it didn't matter that i couldn't fly until 70, but once i could i was like yeah fly forever! imho, wotlk wasn't as fun, regardless of added character progression paths or box price per day it's been out. i'm not saying for what it is if you had fun and played alot it wasn't a good value, but IMHO, I didn't like it. and given that subs peaked and likely have fallen somewhat for wow world wide early in it's life, i'm guessing i'm not the only one.

edit:after doing a bit of research i can't find anything indicating i am right at all about it once not having the slow effect, so i guess i just remember wrong. /shrug.

Grand Master

the evn show

Posted
Posted

hmm interesting. obviously some mistakes on my end(lol@65, i meant 75, when iirc you got cold weather flying around the same time you get access to dalaran, but again i'm probably wrong).

You gain entry to dalaran at level 74 by completing the "magical kingdom" quest. It's been this way since beta. Cold weather flying is purchased at level 78 and has been since beta.

The ability to buy Tome of Cold Weather flying was added in Patch 3.2, prior to that you had to level 'the hard way'.

i only spent time on my mage in wotlk around the start of wotlk so obviously i am wrong about alot of what i was qqing about above, but i am pretty sure frost fire bolt didn't slow targets down when i played. idk, maybe this was changed at some point? i remember looking at the tooltip and wonderwhat the point of it was, and then trying it out during questing and finding it useless for what it was, and going back to regular old frost bolt.

Frostfire Bolt has slowed targets since level 77 was the level cap in WoTLK beta (which is when I got my WoTLK beta invitation, it maybe have been earlier than that).

as for number of quests, i'm sure they added some since then, but back then i either had lower level quests i didn't want to do for some reason, or had quest against level 80 mobs, at 78.

I was careful to only count quests that were in the game at launch and not to count daily quests in any of my totals. Looking at my mage: it was entirely possible to level form 70-80 without even seeing a level 80 mob if you didn't want to. I have 0 quests completed in storm peaks and about 40 completed in icecrown with the equivilent of 1.5 full zones of 72-78 content I could have done instead.

In addition to the quests that were in the game at the start of each expansion there have been several that were added. You can see the new quests for each expansion by searching wowhead.

The total number of 'added' quests in TBC was 270 including the ability to turn your tanking karazahn reputation ring in to a melee dps ring if you wanted to, and some of the redundant quests for holiday events. A similar search for wotlk content puts that number at 390 (including redundant holiday quests) with the end-of-expansion quests still to come. Expect the total number to be somewhere around 425 by the time we're in Cataclysm.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to prefer TBC, but so far the reasons you've given just aren't represented in reality. I think most people that had any experience in classic or tbc are remembering them better than it was. We should go back through this thread and get opinions on the game "when it was new" and see how that matched up with what we think now.

Grand Master

treemonster

Posted
Posted

meh like i said, i seem to be remember it differently.

most of what i didn't like about wotlk is it felt slower overall, maybe because i was solo the whole time with little world pvp to break things up and no guild to talk to in vent, and the overall look and feel of each zone, which seemed to be mainly greys or browns.

i know a lot of people that didn't like wotlk as much for what different reasons as well.

Proficient

Art3x

Posted
Posted

meh like i said, i seem to be remember it differently.

most of what i didn't like about wotlk is it felt slower overall, maybe because i was solo the whole time with little world pvp to break things up and no guild to talk to in vent, and the overall look and feel of each zone, which seemed to be mainly greys or browns.

i know a lot of people that didn't like wotlk as much for what different reasons as well.

Evn is more or less correct here. I hit 80 on my dk in 4.5 days played with no heirlooms and I had only made it to Scholazar Basin. Only had ghetto flying with cold weather too.

The game is some much easier now to lvl than it's ever been.

Grand Master

MR_Candyman

Posted
Posted

You gain entry to dalaran at level 74 by completing the "magical kingdom" quest. It's been this way since beta. Cold weather flying is purchased at level 78 and has been since beta.

The ability to buy Tome of Cold Weather flying was added in Patch 3.2, prior to that you had to level 'the hard way'.

Frostfire Bolt has slowed targets since level 77 was the level cap in WoTLK beta (which is when I got my WoTLK beta invitation, it maybe have been earlier than that).

I was careful to only count quests that were in the game at launch and not to count daily quests in any of my totals. Looking at my mage: it was entirely possible to level form 70-80 without even seeing a level 80 mob if you didn't want to. I have 0 quests completed in storm peaks and about 40 completed in icecrown with the equivilent of 1.5 full zones of 72-78 content I could have done instead.

In addition to the quests that were in the game at the start of each expansion there have been several that were added. You can see the new quests for each expansion by searching wowhead.

The total number of 'added' quests in TBC was 270 including the ability to turn your tanking karazahn reputation ring in to a melee dps ring if you wanted to, and some of the redundant quests for holiday events. A similar search for wotlk content puts that number at 390 (including redundant holiday quests) with the end-of-expansion quests still to come. Expect the total number to be somewhere around 425 by the time we're in Cataclysm.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to prefer TBC, but so far the reasons you've given just aren't represented in reality. I think most people that had any experience in classic or tbc are remembering them better than it was. We should go back through this thread and get opinions on the game "when it was new" and see how that matched up with what we think now.

I know I, for one, have played this game since it came out. Yes, it is better than when it first came out. In my opinion it's not better than TBC days. The game's gotten too boring over time. They made too many changes to make it "friendly" to newbies, so any idiot can play. The classes are slowly merging together, and not being specialized. Because of that, classes don't feel unique anymore. Wrath zones are boring. While they dd make the quests a bit more interesting overall, you are forced to do FAR too many of them, so they just get repetitive, boring, and annoying.

And I don't know about the rest of you, but it really irritates me we aren't getting some classes everybody has wanted since vanilla wow (like the necromancer and perhaps Dragon Knight). Does anybody actually WANT to be a goblin aside from their racials? Worgen I can agree with, but I definitely would have prefered a new class over some new races that I can't play because we aren't getting new character slots and I don't want to nuke any of my characters :(

Grand Master

the evn show

Posted
Posted

They made too many changes to make it "friendly" to newbies, so any idiot can play.

Any idiot can play soccer, hop-scotch, or street fighter II, and that doesn't make the game less fun. IMO a good game should be easy to pick up and play but difficult to master and I think there's still some element of that left.

The major change is that there's relatively little difference between someone in a middle of the road guild (say 55th percentile) and someone closer to the top (80 percentile). In TBC that was the difference between karazhan loot and a reasonably complete set of Tier 5 with some early Tier 6, today it's going to come down to a ring and some boots. If you want to stand out in the WoTLK crowd you need to be top-10% and to be really exceptional you need to be top-1%, in that sense it's much closer to real life where nobody cares about the difference between a C- and B+ student, it's only the people with As that earn accolades. The challenging content is still there, it's just not as plentiful and for 99% of the player base it'll never matter because most of them would never have seen it anyway. If there's a complaint to be made about the difficulty of raids it's that to get to the fun stuff you have to slog through a metric ass load of trivial content but that was true for most of TBC too and it was even worse then.

The classes are slowly merging together, and not being specialized. Because of that, classes don't feel unique anymore.

That's a good thing. It's lame that the most challenging content is basically off limits to anybody lacking a disc priest and holy paladin. It sucked cancelling Sunwell because we only have 4 shaman or only 3 priests. Is playing a mage fun because you're the only one that can spell steal and tank on council? Is the fun part of being a shaman that you can hit bloodlust and nobody else can?

While they dd make the quests a bit more interesting overall, you are forced to do FAR too many of them, so they just get repetitive, boring, and annoying.

You do about 120 more quests levelling from 70-80 than you did from 60-70, that says nothing at all about the overlap of quests so lets just take the numbers at face value: there's 25% more quests to level. Of course if you dislike quests it's entirely reasonable to level exclusively in battlegrounds or in dungeons now and unlike previous expansions you can intersperse questing and battlegrounds/dungeons without being forced to stand around town waiting for a group that many never form.

After level 15 you never have to quest again if you don't enjoy it: use the dungeon finder or battlegrounds. If you don't like PVP, or dungeons, or questing - maybe it's time to find another game.

I definitely would have prefered a new class over some new races that I can't play because we aren't getting new character slots and I don't want to nuke any of my characters :(

Inserting a new class doesn't really make much sense without a roll for it to fill. If your complaint is that classes are too similar today, how does adding yet another one help that situation? It'll need to fill one of the typical rolls (healing, tanking, melee/ranged dps) and will necessarily borrow aspects from other classes.

Not that it matters, you couldn't play the new class either because you're out of character slots.

Grand Master

treemonster

Posted
Posted

just curious if anyone knows the names of region first guilds specificially in the US? not sure where to do the research on it.

there's a guild leader spamming up the swtor guild discussion forums and talking big about being hardcore in both pvp and pve and how his guild is going to be doing world and region firsts.

his recruitment thread, which is 90% him bumping his own topic with the occasional poster saying he seems confident etc, in the OP he claims a number of US firsts in wow pve raids during wotlk and tbc.

the name of his guild is Odium. i forget his forum name there.

has anyone heard of this guild in wow?

he seems to be quite ahead of himself in the planning stages for swtor, being what with what little concrete information we have on class roles, and how end game pve will be(or pvp for that matter). he also seems to have a fair number of slots open for each basic class, despite only having a 35 man vent, which seems a little small for even a very efficient hardcore raiding and pvp guild. by that i mean i've been in a guild with a sister raiding guild doing content at a casual pace that fielded 2 raid groups each week and seemed relatively small by wow standards.

if no one knows about this specifically, can you point me in the direction of a resource which would verify his claims?

EDIT: here is the claims of US firsts from the recruitment thread:

Icecrown Citadel achievements:

US First Heroic Putricide

US First Heroic Sindragosa

US First Heroic Blood-Queen

Ulduar achievements:

US Horde first Mimiron

World first General Vezax

US Horde first Yogg-saron

US First hardmode Thorim

US First hardmode Freya

US Horde first hardmode Hodir

US Horde first hardmode Mimiron

US first one watcher Yogg-Saron

Previous achievements:

US first M'uru

US Horde first Kil'Jaeden

US Horde first Malygos

US Horde first 5 Min Malygos

US Horde first 3 drake sarth

google is not helping at all, using the search times "odium wow US" brings up their swtor recruitment page but none of the guilds in wow with the name odium or similar claim to be hardcore top raiding guilds.

Rising Star

neudera

Posted
Posted

I've been playing on the PTR for a few days now, and although I don't have the Cataclysm beta, and they haven't implemented the "world changes" yet, I'm really digging the other changes like the UI. The layout makes a lot more sense now. The new spell book, character information, and talent tree windows are perfect.

I can't wait until the live servers get upgraded to 4.0!

Grand Master

Slane

Posted
Posted
Icecrown Citadel achievements:

US First Heroic Putricide Deus Vox

US First Heroic Sindragosa Premonition

US First Heroic Blood-Queen Deus Vox

Ulduar achievements:

US Horde first Mimiron

World first General Vezax

US Horde first Yogg-saron

US First hardmode Thorim Exodus

US First hardmode Freya Exodus

US Horde first hardmode Hodir Exodus

US Horde first hardmode Mimiron Vigil

US first one watcher Yogg-Saron Premonition

Previous achievements:

US first M'uru

US Horde first Kil'Jaeden

US Horde first Malygos

US Horde first 5 Min Malygos

US Horde first 3 drake sarth

Using WoW-progress dates. The ones in italic are all normal modes, where a ton of guilds killed 'em all on same day. No guild named Odium was on there. According to wow-progress, the best ranked guild called Odium is 7079. So ya, call him a dumbass would ya.

Grand Master

treemonster

Posted
Posted

Using WoW-progress dates. The ones in italic are all normal modes, where a ton of guilds killed 'em all on same day. No guild named Odium was on there. According to wow-progress, the best ranked guild called Odium is 7079. So ya, call him a dumbass would ya.

thanks man! much appreciated.

Grand Master

vip

Posted
Posted

Being on horde is just rather depressing and grim in my books. I prefer the fluffy bunnies and rainbows of Alliance laugh.gif

Well, that and I absolutely cannot stand being a blood elf (required for my Paladin).

I wiped my Desire last night though for a fresh install and forgot about the authenticator, second time I've had to email blizzard about this laugh.gif

What'd you have to do to get them to remove the authenticator from your account?

Grand Master

Lexcyn

Posted
Posted

What'd you have to do to get them to remove the authenticator from your account?

When this happened to me I had to fax Blizz a copy of my drivers license and SIN card to prove it was me, then they reset my password.

Honestly I didn't want to send them my SIN number as that is the equivalent to a social insurance number in the US, and I don't even think they are allowed to ask you for that here in Canada ... anyways, I wanted my account back so I had to do it. :(

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing