official World of Warcraft

[Bryan R.]

I hate to do this, but care to list a few that were created during Wrath and have since been removed?

You're really stretching my ability to remember specifics but one of the biggest changes was how incredibly easy they made heroic dungeons in Wrath. Going from perhaps hours in a dungeon to 15 minutes and from using strategy and skill to just tanking every mob at the end was just disheartening.

[episode]

You're really stretching my ability to remember specifics but one of the biggest changes was how incredibly easy they made heroic dungeons in Wrath. Going from perhaps hours in a dungeon to 15 minutes and from using strategy and skill to just tanking every mob at the end was just disheartening.

 

Happened in BC too. Hard at beginning, easy at the end. Also, spending 'hours' clearing a single 5 man is hardly a great use of time.

[Lord Method Man]

Heroics are intended to be pre-raid difficulty, and they were. Even the "easy" WotLK heroics were tough if you were in dungeon blues and Badge of Justice pieces. As people got to farming Raid content and geared up they continued to do heroics for their daily badges and they were suddenly too easy.

 

Then Cataclysm came out and people threw a fit because the heroics were supposedly way too hard. You just cant please anyone, ever.

[Bryan R.]

Happened in BC too. Hard at beginning, easy at the end. Also, spending 'hours' clearing a single 5 man is hardly a great use of time.

At the end of BC, certain heroic that were meant to be hard, stayed hard. Shattered Halls, Shadow Labs. Perhaps when the very last patch came out when all bosses had their health cut by 30% was it easier but the trash alone was the hard part. Crowd control is a lost art because of it. We now have players who know nothing about contributing all they can to the group and simply know "pew pew" or to stand and take hits without having to care about threat. It all stems from the same ideals of instant gratification. Blizzard wanted more subscriptions and they got them.

[Bryan R.]

Heroics are intended to be pre-raid difficulty, and they were. Even the "easy" WotLK heroics were tough if you were in dungeon blues and Badge of Justice pieces. As people got to farming Raid content and geared up they continued to do heroics for their daily badges and they were suddenly too easy.

 

Then Cataclysm came out and people threw a fit because the heroics were supposedly way too hard. You just cant please anyone, ever.

Wrath heroics and even Naxx was able to be done with previous expansion gear. That is where the line should be drawn for unacceptable ease.

[Shadrack]

Heroics are intended to be pre-raid difficulty, and they were. Even the "easy" WotLK heroics were tough if you were in dungeon blues and Badge of Justice pieces. As people got to farming Raid content and geared up they continued to do heroics for their daily badges and they were suddenly too easy.

 

Then Cataclysm came out and people threw a fit because the heroics were supposedly way too hard. You just cant please anyone, ever.

 

This is so true.  For Cataclysm on my Warlock I was having a hell of a time getting through the heroics when it first came out.  My damage output just wasn't there, despite having as good as I could get gear from the normal dungeons.  I loved the challenge!  I just wish I had 4 awesome friends to play through the challenges with me but everyone was burnt out on WoW by that point.  So the groups I was in was either full of dumbasses who were doing much worse than me, or ###### doing much better than me and kicking me out of the group.  Ended up taking a break for a few months, and when I came back the game was so nerfed and easy that THAT wasn't fun anymore either.

 

I loved Burning Crusade and WotLK, but I think a lot of that had to do with the number of friends I knew that were all playing during that time.

[Shadrack]

Wrath heroics and even Naxx was able to be done with previous expansion gear. That is where the line should be drawn for unacceptable ease.

 

Not with the crappy Karazhan gear that I had :p

 

Naxx was trivial but Ulduar was pretty challenging IMO.  It all came down to how good the other players around you were.  I got involved in a "hard core" rading guilds in WotLK and it just took way too much of my time, left me stressed, and left me feeling like WoW was a second job.  It was fun, but not rewarding enough for the amount of time.

 

Then switch to "club" guilds and everything is virtually impossible because even though the vast majority are good players, there are a handful of "people's friends" who want to play and are just terrible.

 

The last couple of times I jumped into WoW for a month, about all that I did was PvP because it was the funnest thing that I could advance in by myself.

[Lord Method Man]

Wrath heroics and even Naxx was able to be done with previous expansion gear. That is where the line should be drawn for unacceptable ease.

 

And that was to alleviate the complaints over the situation with BC where people replaced every piece of their hard earned Vanilla raid gear with Hellfire Penninsula quest rewards within the first 2 hours of being there.

[Bryan R.]

And that was to alleviate the complaints over the situation with BC where people replaced every piece of their hard earned Vanilla raid gear with Hellfire Penninsula quest rewards within the first 2 hours of being there.

There will always be a balancing act but these complaints were always pretty silly. With each expansion, mobs had different scales of health and damage. After BC, Blizzard wanted to resolve some of the chance involved of getting one shot or two shot within .2 seconds. To combat this, Blizzard increased the health pools and thus, also the overall damage output of mobs. I forgot all the math behind being two and three levels behind and how hit affects your dps to the target and also the target's ability to hit you more effectively. How anyone expects to hold gear from a previous expansion is beyond me.

 

Additionally, gear that you had which was tailored for your build and class stats could change in a new expansion. It would be foolish to keep gear out of nostalgia that wasn't optimal gear for you after balance changes (see huge changes to Paladins).

[the evn show]

Removed

[Dotdot]

Fragmentation of in game systems and an overt need to cater to everyone has in many ways ruined my own time in WOW.

MOP they really started to do a lot of weird systems and things counter-intuitive to the game.

Rep Tabards gone,

Weird use of JP and VP points, making the former useless early on.

Scenarios are the new 5 mans

Loot coins to double up loot chances.

Theres been a lot of good stuff too and thats what I guess kept me playing for the first 3 patches, but Blizzards own insistance of and attitude on many subjects this expansion has been a dictatorship of sorts, and helped along with the above to drive me out.

[Bryan R.]

Fragmentation of in game systems and an overt need to cater to everyone has in many ways ruined my own time in WOW.

MOP they really started to do a lot of weird systems and things counter-intuitive to the game.

Rep Tabards gone,

Weird use of JP and VP points, making the former useless early on.

Scenarios are the new 5 mans

Loot coins to double up loot chances.

Theres been a lot of good stuff too and thats what I guess kept me playing for the first 3 patches, but Blizzards own insistance of and attitude on many subjects this expansion has been a dictatorship of sorts, and helped along with the above to drive me out.

I agree to an extent. The loot coins just seem gimmicky. Scenarios I know little about but I didn't really like the few I did. Same for the brawler's guild. I don't need a ton of different things to keep me occupied, or distracted more so, I just need quality content with lore to back it up which I did not get at all from MoP.

 

I have issue with reputation requirements in general. Early on our small group of five did all the MoP dungeon achievements. We all got the super special mount but I could not use it because I didn't have the reputation with the Cloud Serpents or whatever. It was pretty ridiculous to me at the time. There were so many dailies to do, again, it felt like a distraction. Then to not be able to use my mount which I worked hard for, was demoralizing. I am being a little dramatic but still it was pretty messed up.

 

Edited for accuracy.

[Lord Method Man]

I agree to an extent. Removing reputation tabards and requiring you to do certain dungeons for your reputation is what the old Blizzard would have been against.

 

Huh? That's exactly what the "Old Blizzard" did. Rep tabards weren't added until WotLK, in BC dungeon rep was faction specific. Hellfire instances = Honor Hold, Zangarmarsh = Cenarion Expedition, etc.

 

They've added faction championing back in MoP too, only without the tabard requirement.

[Bryan R.]

Huh? That's exactly what the "Old Blizzard" did. Rep tabards weren't added until WotLK, in BC dungeon rep was faction specific. Hellfire instances = Honor Hold, Zangarmarsh = Cenarion Expedition, etc.

 

They've added faction championing back in MoP too, only without the tabard requirement.

Oh you're right. There's been so much back and forth over the years I confused myself. Tabards were all symbolic then rather than useful.

[Prosidius]

The championing in MoP is much more limited.  You can only champion a rep for 1 dungeon run a day.  

[Lord Method Man]

The championing in MoP is much more limited.  You can only champion a rep for 1 dungeon run a day.  

 

Didn't know that, had maxed out all my reps before they added it so I never used it.

 

Besides 5.4 is here now and the rep requirements for gear have been removed so its moot.

[firey]

Didn't know that, had maxed out all my reps before they added it so I never used it.

 

Besides 5.4 is here now and the rep requirements for gear have been removed so its moot.

Really?? This is the problem with WoW.. it's like: "Oh you don't want to work for good gear? Okay.. then wait a couple patches and you won't have to do more than login."

There is very little sense of achievement anymore in WoW.

[The Evil Overlord]

Really?? This is the problem with WoW.. it's like: "Oh you don't want to work for good gear? Okay.. then wait a couple patches and you won't have to do more than login."

There is very little sense of achievement anymore in WoW.

Agreed, I no longer play it, but my wife does and she's thinking about quitting

[Lord Method Man]

Its been a year now. Theres no point in farming rep for crappy 489 ilvl gear, thus they removed the requirement to make current content more accessible.

[firey]

Agreed, I no longer play it, but my wife does and she's thinking about quitting

My account is still active, but haven't played in over a month.  The game was good back when you had to actually do things.  I remember playing my Mage in BC and I HAD o Sheep when I was told, otherwise.. I would wipe us all.  

Now.. when you tell someone to CC.. they have no clue what you mean.. or they call you old.  There is a reason the player base is dropping, and that the game is no where near as fierce and competitive as it once was.

[The Evil Overlord]

My account is still active, but haven't played in over a month.  The game was good back when you had to actually do things.  I remember playing my Mage in BC and I HAD o Sheep when I was told, otherwise.. I would wipe us all.  

Now.. when you tell someone to CC.. they have no clue what you mean.. or they call you old.  There is a reason the player base is dropping, and that the game is no where near as fierce and competitive as it once was.

TG Fury tanking was something I missed, Embarrassed the odd Paladin in my time :p

 

Man I miss Wrath. (last time I had any real fun gearing and raiding)

[firey]

Its been a year now. Theres no point in farming rep for crappy 489 ilvl gear, thus they removed the requirement to make current content more accessible.

Thing is though.. anyone who should be running current content.. should be geared already.  They had a year to farm and build up.  The AH is 100% accessible, guilds will do runs.  It is not hard or difficult to get gear.. these requirement removals is to cater to kids and players who don't know how to play the game and need hand outs.

[firey]

TG Fury tanking was something I missed, Embarrassed the odd Paladin in my time :p

 

Man I miss Wrath. (last time I had any real fun gearing and raiding)

For me Wrath was like a break.  I didn't have to work hard, I could heal with my priest through anything.. it was like EZ Mode.  It was a nice change from the stress of TBC.. however once Cata came out.. it was like Blizz decided that everything was still too hard.. and tried to make too many people happy.. which doesn't work.

And the thing is.. blizz didn't like cookie cutter builds.. so they decide: "Lets just get rid of builds.. and give 4 options"  they take away too much from the players.. to make it easier for others.

I mean.. I have to suffer because some dudes 8yo kid made a ###### spec and was confused.

[The Evil Overlord]

For me Wrath was like a break.  I didn't have to work hard, I could heal with my priest through anything.. it was like EZ Mode.  It was a nice change from the stress of TBC.. however once Cata came out.. it was like Blizz decided that everything was still too hard.. and tried to make too many people happy.. which doesn't work.

And the thing is.. blizz didn't like cookie cutter builds.. so they decide: "Lets just get rid of builds.. and give 4 options"  they take away too much from the players.. to make it easier for others.

I mean.. I have to suffer because some dudes 8yo kid made a ****ty spec and was confused.

agreed, BC builds were better 17/44/00

[firey]

agreed, BC builds were better 17/44/00

I remember my Mage had a 40/0/21 spec.  I would do an arcane blast 3 times, then do POM + Frosbolt and Arcane Missiles if it proc'd. 

 

It was fun having rotations and things to stick to.