[Dotdot]

Well if this is for GFX as in Photoshop and such (soz didnt read first post) then Id say expect the price tag. A LOT of these systems come optimized for working with stuff like 3D Studio Max, where your needing to render like a bitch.

But it stil dont warrant a ?3k price tag in some cases neither.

Oh and as for not being the correct components, HA! you aint used 3D Studio Have You! I recently worked on a basic Tux in 3D , I had to have around 30 Tux models in one frame, for what the brief called for. On a Pentium 4 2ghz with Hyper Threading etc it took around 30 mins to calculate just the reflections that were being used in the floor of the scene.

Id say ITS DEFF spot on for what its gonna be used for, and I mean things like rendering full Office Suites so a client can see how it may look. Im talking a full render (i.e 2-5min vid) show casing a TV commercial.

Thats where the cash is going here... oh and I WANT ONE!!!

[sevastopol]

fx55 is like ?100 cheaper than Intel EE, so get it...

[Rudy]

I dont get it. 4 or 5 years ago I could've agreed that a Mac was better. But now... I just dont see why they are so better than a well built PC with the proper design software.

585257204[/snapback]

very true, 4-5 years ago, macs used to be better at graphics but this is not true anymore......the only problem is that lots of people think its still true

[blik]

very true, 4-5 years ago, macs used to be better at graphics but this is not true anymore......the only problem is that lots of people think its still true

585257581[/snapback]

Its not the case actually, PC's are a bit better than before. But essencially never will on par with mac's, the CPU architecture is completely different, the RISC processors Apples use will allways be superior for intensive maths unlike the CISC hybrids PC's use.

Apple have their market, it is proffesionals. Graphic Designers, DTP, Video etc. If PC's were capable as you say they are, Apple would go out of business tomorrow. Try working with massive files on either platform before saying PC's can do the same job.

Anyway... He wants a PC...

[zxybgsyxz]

guys he clearly said no macs, personally i'd go for the best athlon 64 on a nice mobo... i'm not that much in the knowing on what you need for graphics. i do know that currently athlon 64's beat everything-intel.

585257260[/snapback]

Wrong. Intel is better with encoding and the like. I believe I'm talking about the right thing and I'm not getting confused, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

[boocher]

I know they might not be "correct" for a design system but it sure would be a nice system  :laugh: - why can nobody let me have my fuin :-p. Anyway, a FireGL card would be preferable I think but as for the RAM that you specified -PC400 (you mean DDR400 right?????) and I think you would want ECC . You might also find thart the mainboard is limited to 6 banks @ DDR400 so your 4x512MB suggestion may not work as chances are the modules would be double banked.

585257393[/snapback]

I see the banked issue. I use this motherboard with a very similar spec to what is described. The problem with an FX55 is that it is truly an Opteron. Just rebranded and unlocked. DDR400, yes and with Opteron the memory needs to be ECC. The Tyan Dual Socket 940 could be a better solution for this however it has a couple less semi-useful featuress.

_--boocher

[jamend]

I think there are three main setups to choose from:

A) 2x Xeons, SCSI/PCIe/PCI-X motherboard, X800 XT(PE) graphics (PCIe), 2x 15K RPM SCSI drives for speed, 2x 400 GB SATA drives for storage

Advantages:

- Dual processors

- PCI Express

- SCSI

Disadvantages

- Slower processors

- DDR 2 400 memory

- No SLI

B) 2x Opterons, SCSI/AGP/PCI motherboard, X800 XT(PE) graphics (AGP), 2x 15K RPM SCSI drives for speed, 2x 400 GB SATA drives for storage

Advantages:

- Fastest dual processors

- SCSI

Disadvantages:

- No PCI Express (no SLI)

C) 1x Athlon FX 55, SLI motherboard, 2x Geforce 6800U graphics (SLI), 2x 10K RPM SATA drives for speed, 2x 400 GB SATA drives for storage

Advantages:

- PCI Express

- Fastest graphics with SLI

- Fastest for non-threading/SMP-enabled applications

Disadvantages:

- Slower SATA drives (no SCSI)

- Single processor

- Doesn't support as much RAM

All of these setups should have 4 GB of RAM or more. I would choose the dual Opteron setup (B) because it'll provide the most processing power, fast hard drive speeds, and lots of RAM. As for workstation graphics cards, I wouldn't use them unless you were specifically asked to. They're usually almost exactly the same hardware as the mainstream counterparts except for a small firmware/driver mod that makes them more accurate but slower. Workstation cards are also often a generation behind the latest mainstream cards. Of course I'm not including Wildcat cards and the like in that comparison, just FireGL/Quadro vs. Radeon/Geforce.

[DaveLegg Developer]

Take a look on alienware. I believe they do systems for graphic design.

[Hankyone]

Take a look on alienware. I believe they do systems for graphic design.

585258675[/snapback]

right what i was going to say

[theyarecomingforyou]

Would SLI even work for graphics design? Isn't it a driver function only designed for games? I know UT2004 had problems with it, so if they have trouble with that I would imagine graphics programs are further down the list of things-to-do.

As for what not do do:

No FX-series chips - these are great for gaming and overclocking, but aren't preferable for graphics design.

No X850XT's or 6800U's - you want a workstation PCI-E card, like the GL7100 (at around ?700) or the more powerful Quadro 3400 (at around ?1000 - you can even dual these cards up, but that is probably overkill and definitely over-budget).

No random gaming memory, such as PC4000 or RAM with pretty LED's - you'll want ECC memory to ensure that the data is not corrupt (this is unimportant for gaming, but crucial for top-end graphic design).

As for storage you'll probably be looking at RAID1 (data written to two hard-drives - write speed is same as that of a normal hard-drive, but reading is faster and data is protected from disk failure) or RAID5 (doesn't store redundant data, but can reconstruct information from the parity records).

We really need more information about its intended use. Are we talking professional system where the data is highly important, or someone's dad sitting on a computer attempting basic web design?

[Vice]

Wrong.  Intel is better with encoding and the like.  I believe I'm talking about the right thing and I'm not getting confused, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

585258291[/snapback]

I think you are thinking about AMD chips vs Intel chips.

Apple's G5's (made by IBM) are extremely powerful and steam through encoding with the right application taking full advantage of the chips.

For instance Pixar the biggest 3D animations studio (which make full features not special effects with CGI) use G5 Powered Macs. Not because Steve Jobs is the CEO of both Pixar and Apple but because the G5 is more suited for the job. They can encode a full scene in a few hours when it used to take days.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Apple's G5's (made by IBM) are extremely powerful and steam through encoding with the right application taking full advantage of the chips.

Yes... but it isn't relevant to the thread, as they can't be used for this system.

For instance Pixar the biggest 3D animations studio (which make full features not special effects with CGI) use G5 Powered Macs. Not because Steve Jobs is the CEO of both Pixar and Apple but because the G5 is more suited for the job. They can encode a full scene in a few hours when it used to take days.

Rubbish. Pixar used Linux and Intel Xeon processors (1024, running at 2.8GHz) for their render farm: Pixar @ CNet.com

They changed to G5 because of politics - when a guy like Steve Jobs is CEO of Pixar you don't go and adopt a Linux/Windows system, it wouldn't make sense. It in no way indicates which platform is superior.

[nerdfiles]

One more thing, if you want 'pro' advice, get yourself over to CgTalk and look in the hardware forum there.

Its one of the best communities for digital art on the net and questions like yours have been asked an answered many times, so your sure to find some help.

:)

theyarecomingforyou: you are right about the renderfarm, however 'encoding' and 3d rendering are very different things, which draw differently on the system.

I was assuming that WinMacLin was making reference to the editing etc done on g5s (which are very very fast for this), although does anyone know if that is actually done in house by pixar?

You are right however, it would make no marketing sense and show no faith in the product, if steve jobs' animation company used pcs as workstations.

Also i couldn't agree more with your comment about no x800 or 6800u cards and ram etc

Edited January 9, 2005 by nerdfiles

[Argote]

Dual Opteron with the latest Quadro card is what you NEED

[Vice]

Yes... but it isn't relevant to the thread, as they can't be used for this system.

Rubbish. Pixar used Linux and Intel Xeon processors (1024, running at 2.8GHz) for their render farm: Pixar @ CNet.com

They changed to G5 because of politics - when a guy like Steve Jobs is CEO of Pixar you don't go and adopt a Linux/Windows system, it wouldn't make sense. It in no way indicates which platform is superior.

585258909[/snapback]

I said about the G5 to simply clear up misconceptions, and even Steve Jobs himself said how it cut there render time so don't even give me that Cnet crap.

[jamend]

Steve Jobs also says that the PowerMac G5 is the fastest and first 64-bit personal computer, and also that the 3 GHz G5 comes out in half a year ago. Have you heard of the reality distortion field?

[Vice]

He said they would have a 3ghz G5 last year in june, ok IBM didn't come through they had problems getting the chips power up. ok, but I mean it was the first 64-bit PERSONAL computer. and at time that they said it was the fastest it was according to all the benchmarks atleast and if you would see the apple site it clearly says fastest in world*

*At time of print.

If it was false information I am sure they would have been sued by now over it.

[vbagaria]

mac is just fancy piece of ****, cant do work on it. Get a dual xeon if you want to do serious 3d and 2d designs, or get dual opterons if you want to crunch numbers and process transactions.

[2s2k]

why not Apple?

[notuptome2004]

Pixar stated ina interview on the making of finding Nemo that they Ran a un Renderd scene uncompressed scene of it on the MAC G5 and the a single g5 2ghz was able to render it in Real time while it was playing with no Pixle loss or frame Loss now try and do that ona dang PC. but anyways go witha singl AMD64bit system or so and get a SLi system 2x 6800ultras it will rip through 3d rendering. and since the GeForce 6 series uses www.Openexr.org ILM based technlogy it will work Well OpenEXR HDR . Now just imagine what type of graphics that movie Day after tommrow would have had if they used the 6800 ultra instead of the old Geforce 5x series

[xXTOKERXx]

God damn!!

when i saw 2 pages had developed i expected a mass list of possible system, but i got a war on Mac Vs Microsoft.

Guys, i really dont care, its not my PC, its the companys, they have asked for a WINDOWS based system, and for some reason do not want a pre built one.

Okay, they might not be the smartest of companies, i have spoke to them, suggesting, but for some reason they want this system, looking at 3k, +2k on software, total 5k for a ultimate machine, and i am going to deliver the goods.

I have seen some setups in this thread, however i havent really seen any suggestions backing them up, i would like the components to be explained, and backed up by some one! so i dont get shot in the knee caps for delivering a crap computer!

The information was useful, but only useful to me, not the company

Please keep on topic!

Thanks

[Andre]

Pixar stated  ina  interview  on the making of  finding Nemo that  they Ran a  un Renderd  scene uncompressed scene  of it on the  MAC G5 and the  a single g5 2ghz was able to render it  in Real time while it was  playing with no Pixle loss  or frame Loss  now try and do that  ona  dang  PC.  but anyways go witha singl AMD64bit system or so and get  a  SLi system  2x 6800ultras  it will rip through 3d rendering. and since  the  GeForce  6 series uses  www.Openexr.org    ILM based  technlogy  it will work Well  OpenEXR HDR . Now just imagine what type of graphics  that movie  Day after tommrow would have had  if they used the  6800 ultra  instead of the old Geforce 5x series

585260463[/snapback]

ffs.. where do people like you crawl out from.. >_<

[jamend]

Well, we could make fully-researched and documented suggestions, but you're the one getting paid for this right? =)

[xXTOKERXx]

^^ lol i hear ya!

but in honesty, you guys know more about this stuff more than me, i could go out right now and buy all the bits, but i want to be certain on what to get!

hence asking here, cause i know your all very helpful, even if you do go a bit OT at times!

[Amnesia888]

Okay, so my dad works in this company, and they were looking to pay some one a decent amount of cash if they can build a really decent system for graphics design, my dad has mentioned it to me, and spoke to his work mates, and there willing to pay me a some of money to build this computer for them.

they do a lot of printing work, graphical design, 3d modelling things like that.

Personally i know nothing about this, but i know a lot of you guys do.

I dont know what is needed, intel? amd? single proc? dual? 64 bit.

there is just too much to know what the best system will be.

Could some one piece up a decent system? or give me an idea on what to go for.

Thanks!

585256746[/snapback]

sounds like you weren't the best person to ask!! say you can't do the job you don't want to mess things up!!