Taskbar vs. Dock

[Timan Veteran]

What do you call that big long thing that went on top of the screen in the earlier mac os? THAT WAS A TASKBAR, buddy.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH The thing at the top is no taskbar buddy.

And its on every mac os.

Unless your talking about the control strip which isn't a task bar really.

[Dazzla Veteran]

Originally posted by Divide Overflow

I've seen plenty of arguments from both sides, but they're all the same. The dock looks better, the taskbar does more. To that I say this:

The dock has better special effects. Does it look better? Well that's hard to answer. The Dock itself, is nothing more than a half transparent grey area, filled with icons. It really doesn't LOOK like anything without the icons in it. On top of this, the Explorer Taskbar in XP can look like anything. I prefer Chaninja's badass "Chaninja v3.1 JTS" theme.

And to that I say this. If you are comparing the taskbar to the dock, you take both in their default state. I.e. Dock pinstriped and the taskbar as either Blue luna or classic.

If you start talking about themes then you have to take into account that the dock can be skinned, made totallty transparent, opaque, semi-transparent, blue, black, multicoloured etc etc.

As for the amount of resources it takes, it isn't a lot of memory but a hell of a lot of CPU. The quartz rendering engine is entirely dependant on the CPU. None of it is offloaded to the GPU because of the way it works, too ahead of it's time I guess you could say (you could also say they've bitten off more then they can chew). This will change on the next release of OS X in september (10.2/Jaguar) where Apple have been able to offload some of the rendering to the GPU (basic requirements AGP 2X and 32mb VRAM). You can compare this to the supposed feature of Longhorn (2003 eta) where they are integrating DirectX9 at the base level to take over some/all of the GUI. But that's another argument to be had in a few months ;)

And on a sidenote, the dock wont ever have nothing on it because the finder and trash icons are always there.

Originally posted by sp00nman

What do you call that big long thing that went on top of the screen in the earlier mac os? THAT WAS A TASKBAR, buddy.

That strip along the top is called the menubar, for good reason obviously, it contains the menu of the foremost application. The only other things it contains are the time and any programs that you may want to have up there, kinda like a systray. So it may include a volume control, chat shortcuts etc.

Good to see we're actually having a half decent debate here.

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by sp00nman

I live in America, not Japan. Their computer use doesn't concern me. If they prefer mac, then they do. Don't care.

If you don't care then why are you spouting off about how Windows is the most popular OS in the world? Or are you just not caring because more people use computers in Japan than in America?

Originally posted by sp00nman

What do you call that big long thing that went on top of the screen in the earlier mac os? THAT WAS A TASKBAR, buddy.

You mean that big long thing that still goes across the top of the screen in OS X? If thats a taskbar then we must have double the functionality of Windows.

Orignally posted by divide overflow

I've seen plenty of arguments from both sides, but they're all the same. The dock looks better, the taskbar does more. To that I say this:

The dock has better special effects. Does it look better? Well that's hard to answer. The Dock itself, is nothing more than a half transparent grey area, filled with icons. It really doesn't LOOK like anything without the icons in it. On top of this, the Explorer Taskbar in XP can look like anything. I prefer Chaninja's badass "Chaninja v3.1 JTS" theme.

It would actually be quite easy to customise the dock area just by the use of making a pdf graphic and inserting it in as the background graphic.

I've also seen a few comments on Windows and it's memory usage, and OSX and it's lack of memory usage. Also I've seen comments that the Dock is better and uses less RAM because it is a seperate application. Not true. OSX is based on FreeBSD and has that bad ass graphics engine to create those neat little effects. Like it or not, that's going to use some serious processor time and RAM. FreeBSD is a Unix-like operating system, and is meant more for servers than Desktops. It's like buying a Peterbilt instead of an F150. Sure, more power and versatility, but do you really need it?

Does that mean that people that use freebsd on their pcs are committing overkill? OS X != Freebsd. Yes it was built using the mach kernel but its not made for servers, thats there for stability and security. As for ram usage you can't argue the point either way since memory usage on a mac is ****loads different than on a pc.

Overall, Macs are easier to use, and look better in certain respects, yes. But for me, I prefer PCs. It's a personality thing. And don't go off saying that Macs are universally easier to use, because I've seen new users speak from both sides of the coin. I've seen people who try out both Macs and PCs and say that one or the other is hard to use. Unfortunately for Steve, more people out there prefer PCs. Regardless of the operating system on them, PCs are more popular. You can't deny this - more people use Windows PCs than Macs.

basic fact of human nature, once people get something that they like its hard to get them to change their preferences be it from food, cars, or even operating systems.

[sp00nman]

Originally posted by unsanity

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH The thing at the top is no taskbar buddy.

And its on every mac os.

Unless your talking about the control strip which isn't a task bar really.

Ok, I'm sorry I don't know the correct terminology (sp?) for the mac 02. I've used them off and on before, so I don't know much about what each thing is called (I admit this). It's very similar to a taskbar, In my opinion. I thought I saw a mac os where it wasn't there? Is the thing removable?

I think we can all agree that this debate will never end. Some have their docks, some have their taskbars. I personally prefer the taskbar, but there are others who prefer the dock. I'm ending any arguments here and now before I make myself look stupid! :s

Peace, Mac users? At least we don't go for linux stuff... damn rebels...

[MajorSham]

Originally posted by Wickedkitten

Does that mean that people that use freebsd on their pcs are committing overkill? OS X != Freebsd. Yes it was built using the mach kernel but its not made for servers, thats there for stability and security. As for ram usage you can't argue the point either way since memory usage on a mac is ****loads different than on a pc.

Of course OS X is not FreeBSD. But it is BASED on FreeBSD, which is a server OS. And as far as people using FreeBSD or Linux as their desktop OS, yes it is overkill. I see no need for such high levels of security on a personal computer, nor does a PC need to have all the crap that comes with these two operating systems (namely server and networking software).

Most often relativly minimal security will stop almost all threats out there. You also cannot ignore the fact that Unix and it's offshoots are meant for servers, not PCs. Besides, both Linux and FreeBSD boast of Unix lineage, when neither are based on actual Unix code, which is so secure and stable because of years and years of refinement. For this reason, I do not see how either Linux or FreeBSD (or OS X for that matter) can claim Unix security and stability when neither have had anywhere near as much development.

basic fact of human nature, once people get something that they like its hard to get them to change their preferences be it from food, cars, or even operating systems.

As I've said, I've seen plenty of people try out both Macs and PCs, having never touched a computer before. My little brother Glen and my best friend Steve. I've been to the store with both. My brother having never used a computer, my friend having used only Macs in school. Both chose PCs. This is personal experience of course, but still. . I've seen more people choose PCs than Macs. Price, performance, and ease of use have been on the side of the PC for a while. Apple on the other hand, seems more intent on looking good than getting the job done. The iLamp for instance, and the insane level of special effects in OS X which serve no other purpose than to look pretty.

[MajorSham]

One other thing, on the subject of Microsoft copying Apple. . .

Microsoft and Apple are competitors, in a field with a relatively linear and logical progression of advancement. Apple claims that Windows XP copies MacOS X. I question how? The two interfaces are fundamentally different. Mac has their "Finder" interface, which doubles as the titlebar and menu bar for whatever application has focus. Windows has everything seperated. . .

[Timan Veteran]

well this isn't a big deal but i noticed that in the MS XP Plus pack there was an Apple wallpaper in there. its the one with the earth half shown which is included with osx by default.

[Guest deadzombie]

Also if you notice in the MS XP Plus pack they have a close up picture of a tree branch that is remarkable similair to a Mac leaf desktop that has been around for a long time...so similair that it's easy to confuse the two desktops when they are in a thumbnail preview mode...

Of course, Apple Pro mouse has more than one button now...wonder where they got that idea?

It never ends...every corp steals the best ideas of their competition and 'redesigns' them as their own. The fact that this happens in the personal computer market is no more surprising than the varities of BBQ sauce you'll find at the supermarket; 20+ 'seasoned' flavors by 5 or 6 different companies, in truth you really only have about 3 variations total...mesquite, honey, and regular...

You know, Linux distros have a start menu, some have wharfs...BEOS is so easy to use because its laid out like Mac/ Windows...it all comes down to preference.

I'm still waiting for the OS GUI shown in A.I. - flying 3D objects that are voice interactive; Apple OSX probably has the closest match to this with the release of 'Jag'.

Just musing aloud...

[Timan Veteran]

Of course, Apple Pro mouse has more than one button now...wonder where they got that idea?

It does? i only see don't see any buttons on it but one big plastic round piece lol

[Ravager]

Lol. The whole mouse is one big button.

*smiles at his Intellimouse Explorer*

[Dazzla Veteran]

Yeah, can't beat the intellimouse, MS does make good hardware...

Nice to know it works sweet on my mac as well ;)

[Mark Otto]

id have to say the taskbar....just cuz i could never figure out the damn dock bar...always got ****ed over royally :(

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

i prefer using control+click anyways

[Guest deadzombie]

Originally posted by Wickedkitten

i prefer using control+click anyways

Sure, but when you add 5 buttons to ctrl+click or shift+click or alt+click (I started out years ago as a CAD guy so I live with keyboard+click) then you have 15 super options to interact with!

Screw 3 button mice!

[KoL Veteran]

taskbar :D

[MajorSham]

I just noticed I never addressed this point:

Originally posted by Wickedkitten

As for ram usage you can't argue the point either way since memory usage on a mac is ****loads different than on a pc.

How so? A book written in English and a book written in German will more than likely take up about the same amount of space, since neither language is superior to the other. The same goes for Macs vs PCs. How is RAM usage not an issue or comparable? Data is measured in Megabytes, and Macs manage memory the same way most other operating systems, Windows or otherwise, do. So where is the difference that prevents this point from being debated? Teach me, Obi Wan.

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by Divide Overflow

I just noticed I never addressed this point:

How so? A book written in English and a book written in German will more than likely take up about the same amount of space, since neither language is superior to the other. The same goes for Macs vs PCs. How is RAM usage not an issue or comparable? Data is measured in Megabytes, and Macs manage memory the same way most other operating systems, Windows or otherwise, do. So where is the difference that prevents this point from being debated? Teach me, Obi Wan.

ah my young padwan that is untrue, first off do you know how to speak german? If not here's an example:

[english = 24 letters]

my name is Catherine Cameron

[German = 27]

mein Name ist Catherine Cameron

just by that analogy your logic is flawed, A book written in German is going to take up more space as most words in the german language have longer letters than their english equivalent. Same as how most books that are written in Japanese are going to be ****loads shorter than books written in English because of the fact that in Japanese you can have one symbol for an entire word, so already your point is wrong.

Data is handled in Megabytes on both platforms yes but this isn't about Hard Drive space its about how the computer handles system ram usage and threading. Despite your usage of sarcasm and in which I have already proven your book analogy flawed I will give you a chance to google search the answer before I batter you over the head with it so you don't end up coming off like a dummy like in your last post.

[usr.bin]

Originally posted by Wickedkitten

...Despite your usage of sarcasm and in which I have already proven your book analogy flawed I will give you a chance to google search the answer before I batter you over the head with it so you don't end up coming off like a dummy like in your last post.

LOL!!!

[Guest deadzombie]

Wickedkitten;

So it's obvious that you herald many of the advantages of the Mac platform, yet how do you truly feel about WindowsXP?

Inquiring minds want to know...

[Dazzla Veteran]

Any computer user who tried to say that windows XP isn't the best version of windows made, is kidding themselves.

Microsoft have done a good job with this OS and although there have quite possibly been a record amount of security holes, when you are at the top, you are at the top to be shot down. Good to see MS are patching fairly quickly in most cases as well.

I went back to my laptop today after not using it for about a month cause I was starting to put a theme together, it did feel a little wierd as OS X had already drilled in it's little nuances and shortcuts within this short amount of time.

Surely that's a sign of a good OS when you can feel so totally at home on it within 4 weeks that Windows XP that I've been using for a year feels slightly alien...

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Originally posted by deadzombie

Wickedkitten;

So it's obvious that you herald many of the advantages of the Mac platform, yet how do you truly feel about WindowsXP?

Inquiring minds want to know...

I quite like windows xp and think its the best product that Microsoft has come out with period, even more so than encarta or MS Bookshelf. I've actually used XP since around this time last year starting with 2462.

Don't get me wrong I've got an mcse in w2k, and I've just starting really using os x since 2 months ago even though unspec got this cube way back in July of last year, and we have argued the whole wxp vs osx thing from every angle known to man since then.

Every excuse that people have used on why xp is better I have already tried using lol

[Guest deadzombie]

Anyone that knows me will tell you I love both OS platforms. Although I rarely have access to a Mac anymore (*sniff-tear*), I still keep up with current Mac news.

XP has really impressed me with what it can do graphically. I really think Microsoft left alot of XP's interface unchanged so as not to freak out joe-blow user, but everyday I am finding more and more that XP can match the OSX interface...which is very surprising. Dream-Render, for example, as a new desktop application that enables animated Open GL wallpapers on the desktop...and it takes up less than 1% of the system resources. Imagine swirling 3-D wallpapers or a full screen movie running as your wallpaper while you work...and not noticing the system resources being used!

I do believe OSX is a step ahead of the game, and being so new we have just begun to see what is capable of. XP is capable of it's own dock (regardless of the massive legal issues that would raise...) I have yet to see someone with the skills to do so put forth the effort...even Object Dock wasn't even half finished...any XP dock will have to pull from it's own HQ icon library to bypass the crappy 'stock' XP icons. Sad, but true. And OSX runs dynamic icons...having a 48x48 icon of quicktime playing The Matrix in your dock is simply mind blowing! XP can do this...but nobody has really even started coding that direction.

IMHO...

[MajorSham]

Originally posted by Wickedkitten

ah my young padwan that is untrue, first off do you know how to speak german? If not here's an example:

[english = 24 letters]

my name is Catherine Cameron

[German = 27]

mein Name ist Catherine Cameron

just by that analogy your logic is flawed, A book written in German is going to take up more space as most words in the german language have longer letters than their english equivalent. Same as how most books that are written in Japanese are going to be ****loads shorter than books written in English because of the fact that in Japanese you can have one symbol for an entire word, so already your point is wrong.

Data is handled in Megabytes on both platforms yes but this isn't about Hard Drive space its about how the computer handles system ram usage and threading. Despite your usage of sarcasm and in which I have already proven your book analogy flawed I will give you a chance to google search the answer before I batter you over the head with it so you don't end up coming off like a dummy like in your last post.

Ahh, quite a refreshing display of sarcasm and idiocy. Not to mention the fact that you sound like a complete ######.

My book analogy is not flawed, and I know well the differences between languages and how one language can have an advantage over another. This is actually my point. I was told, by you, that Macs and PCs cannot be compared. Yet somehow, memory management on a Mac is more efficient. All I ask is for you or one of your fellow biggots to explain why and how. Not for a smart ass attitude spawned from sexual frustration or mood swings due to it being "That time of the month". .

[Guest deadzombie]

Originally posted by Divide Overflow

Ahh, quite a refreshing display of sarcasm and idiocy. Not to mention the fact that you sound like a complete ######.

My book analogy is not flawed, and I know well the differences between languages and how one language can have an advantage over another. This is actually my point. I was told, by you, that Macs and PCs cannot be compared. Yet somehow, memory management on a Mac is more efficient. All I ask is for you or one of your fellow biggots to explain why and how. Not for a smart ass attitude spawned from sexual frustration or mood swings due to it being "That time of the month". .

Hiya, just wanted to ask anyone that reads that post to report it to a mod...thats just not right

[MajorSham]

Having my intelligence insulted, that's not right. I simply dish out what I recieve. Like your sig, my friend. Kinda explains why you're so offended by my post.