Is Linux nearing XP usability?

[CaKeY]

You obviously havent used Linux in years. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[markwolfe Veteran]

i have to know wheter to have lilo or grub bootloader

586252505[/snapback]

No you don't. Both work well, and usually one default is given. Go with the default.

and know what the hda0 part of my hdd so i dont wipe anything.

586252505[/snapback]

No you don't for single boot. If you have blank space, you don't for dual boot, either. If you have a different situation, this is still only a one-time issue. Once installed, you are done. Daily computing experience is not the same as a one-time install experience.

then i have to compile files to install a program, such as msn messenger.

586252505[/snapback]

No you don't. Use your package manager to install the app(s) you need.

EDIT:

in addition, i think linux is fine for making word documents and running servers, but latest games dont play, so i dont see how consumers will switch,

and using ut2004 as a game for linux doesnt really count since it was designed to run with linux.

586252519[/snapback]

If you are a teenage gamer, stick with Windows for gaming. This apparently is not getting through to you.

As for the rest of what you have to say, I no longer have interest.

[MiG-]

in addition, i think linux is fine for making word documents and running servers, but latest games dont play, so i dont see how consumers will switch,

and using ut2004 as a game for linux doesnt really count since it was designed to run with linux.

[rezza Veteran]

hang about, but there is one major flaw that is always gonna stop most entusiasts from using any form of linux.

Most enthusiasts like games, or photoshop, movie editing or whatever.

I'd consider myself an enthusiast, but none of those things are high on my list of wants when it comes to computing. I want to be able to develop in different languages, experiment with my operating system, edit the apps I use so they work exactly the way I want them to, automate repetitive tasks easily, test out different sites and/or webapps I'm developing locally before putting them live, and be able to access my machine from any other computer connected to the 'net. I haven't played games for years, never really used photoshop very much, and I've never used a video editing app in my life.

I have never seen linux running any form of adobe photoshop, adobe premier, or even macromedia flash.

Heard of wine?

Ive used linux, it may be fine for creating say a word document, checking email or watever.

I've used Windows, it may be fine for playing games and drawing pictures or whatever.

but then again, open office is a pile of crap, and then i have to learn to use a new program because linux doesnt support microsoft office.

I have to say that I think all office packages are crap, Microsoft's included, but again, have you heard of wine?

In terms of UI, linux is far more advanced than windows xp, it just looks better.

"Better" is subjective.

But then again KDE is updated a lot, whereas windows XP is becoming to age, and when longhorn is available then i think linux with neither have that advantage.

KDE is just one of many possible environments in linux.

Drivers are another enemy for linux. Windows allows you to download a driver that instantly works, and it works fine. Linux needs emulation software to let me use logitech's set-point software for my ?50 MX1000.

I agree, hardware support in linux isn't as good as windows. That's not the fault of linux developers - its simply because hardware manufacturers write windows drivers and not linux ones. However, the reason for the discrepancy is irrelevant - the simple fact is that hardware support is better on windows.

I have been using computers since a very early age, using dos, windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME and now XP.

ive tried various linux distros, and just cant see where the useability is for a enthusiast.

I have been using computers since a very early age too - using Spectrums, the original IBM PC (which booted straight into a BASIC environment), AmigaOS, Atari STs, Windows 2, 3, 95, 98, 2000, XP, 2003, Solaris 7/8/9, and various distributions of linux.

I've tried various forms of Windows, and can't see where the flexibility is for the enthusiast.

Windows is a much better gaming platform.

Agreed. Windows makes a better toy.

I see the use of a computer summarised below:

Apple Mac = Hardcore graphic designers, movie editing, basically digital editing.

Windows = Gaming, and basically everything.

Linux= cheap, but i would say just internet browsing and err. word processing.

You will not get the consumer to switch until u have programs that are advanced as microsoft office, adobe products, and also macromedia.

My vision:

Linux/BSD = Great for really cheap, really limited locked-down web-browsing and email boxen, eg for grandma. Also good for cost-effective, extremely limited (and therefore easy to administer) corporate environments.

Windows/Apple Mac = Good for intermediate tasks. Commercial stuff like photoshopping and video editing. Good for more advanced stuff too, like some development etc.

Windows = The only real choice for a hardcore gamer, unless you only play one or two games all the time.

Linux/BSD = Good for customizing, learning, developing, and being ultimately flexible. Takes more effort to do some things, but you gain the freedom of being able to do literallyanything>.

dont give me bull**** about linux being virus free, its entirely possible to write a virus for anything...

Linux is for all practical purposes virus free. The only viruses linux boxes will have on them in the wild are windows viruses, in files that are shared on a network or emailed. It is much harder to write exploitative code for linux than it is for windows due to the restrictions placed on every user account. In windows, users almost always run with full admin privileges.

at the end of the day, the consumer will miss programs such as msn messenger, as even tho there are alternatives, it will never be the same as msn messenger..

That's just the inertia of familiarity. There are plenty of apps I missed when I first switched away from windows, but that feeling of "missing" things goes away with time. Similarly there are apps I miss now when I'm forced to use a windows machine. It goes both ways.

I think Linux could become something good, but it cant get me to switch because of the lack of things i can actually do in it.

586252290[/snapback]

Good for you - stick to your guns. There are different operating systems for a reason - if there was one operating system that was better than all others in every respect, then nobody would ever use anything else. You happen to prefer windows, I happen to prefer linux. More power to us I say;))

EDIT: Damnable quoting doesn't seem to have worked with this post.

[MiG-]

how can u say i havent used linux in years, so SUSE 9.2 pro is old now is it.

I DONT WANT U TO SLATE MY WINDOWS FORUM, I DONT GO IN IT.

WAT DO OVERCLOCKERS USE, WINDOWS.

GRAPHIC DESIGNERS, APPLE MAC

i think you think your special cos u can work a os that no one else can, because windows has 2 many loop holes that make it impossible to use.

ooo it crashes all the time, u might be thinking...

BULL****.

[CaKeY]

WAT DO OVERCLOCKERS USE, WINDOWS.

I overclock pretty heavily. Got my 3200+ @ 2.5ghz. My 6600gt @ 550/1100

I dont run windows.

[markwolfe Veteran]

i think you think your special cos u can work a os that no one else can, because windows has 2 many loop holes that make it impossible to use.

586252530[/snapback]

I think I see the root of the issue here (as you switch back to flame-bait mode).

You have something against Linux users, personally. You apply your own perceptions of a "Linux user" to us, and assume that everyone who uses Linux "thinks they're special".

Yet, you continue to post here in attempts to stir up arguments (vs. discussions, which are constructive).

[MiG-]

this is bull****..

come back in 10 years and tell me who still has the market share... windows..

does linux advertise. noo. is it going 2 get users, no..

I cant be arsed with this no more...

u have to emualte software, not run games, and just sit on emulated software...

i think ill pass

Ure loss that ure using linux, not mine

[markwolfe Veteran]

MiG:uK,

With that last post, you are no longer welcome to post in this thread.

[David Scaife]

(@ MiG:uK) :blink: Huh? If I didn't know better, I'd think you were taking this personally... please, read and understand people's responses; if you don't, then this discussion will be dragged down to the level of mere mudslinging.

Linux does not depend on emulated software. Somehow I get a slight feeling that you haven't done your homework. And Linux is not a commercial endeavour; market share means next to nothing for the Linux community, though it might occasionally be used for stroking the collective ego. And it is not about making people think Linux is better than Windows, it is about correcting misinformed individuals; not only those who are intent on believing and spreading lies, but also those who are not aware of the choice.

Edit: spelling, grammar, formatting

Edited July 22, 2005 by scaife

[rezza Veteran]

how can u say i havent used linux in years, so SUSE 9.2 pro is old now is it.

I DONT WANT U TO SLATE MY WINDOWS FORUM, I DONT GO IN IT.

WAT DO OVERCLOCKERS USE, WINDOWS.

GRAPHIC DESIGNERS, APPLE MAC

i think you think your special cos u can work a os that no one else can, because windows has 2 many loop holes that make it impossible to use.

ooo it crashes all the time, u might be thinking...

BULL****.

586252530[/snapback]

Seriously man, calm down. Nobody else here is shouting, are they?

And that suggestion that overclockers use windows is laughable. I overclock my processor and video card perfectly well in linux.

And posting swearwords in capital letters really isn't helping you make your point.

What is your point, by the way? That You prefer windows? Nobody is disputing that...

[CaKeY]

Yeah man. By all means, please stick with windows.

[kirk26]

0.000000000000001% usability to Windows so far.

[CaKeY]

0.000000000000001% usability to Windows so far.

586252606[/snapback]

And how did you arrive at this figure? :rolleyes:

[ichi]

I find quite funny that some people get all angry at us just because we're using linux :p

Looks like they feel threatened or something.

[bdsams Veteran]

i would have to say that linux is on its way to being close to the usability of XP, with the progress of Ubuntu ( think thats the right spelling) there is promise but i dont believe anytime soon will we see a mainstream linux devation be competing with XP/Vista/ Microsofts desktop platfrom for the home user in the near future. First off, for the average joe user...if its not broke, dont fix it ( now i no some will argue that xp is broken and needs to be fixed but thats not the topic of discussion)

The reason i say this, as for the linux distro we still have yet to see across the board driver support and the biggest lacking feature is the double click to install... this is the key difference in my mind. when a user wants to install a program he just double clicks installs and answers a few questions about where to save the info and he is good to go. with linux you have to set permissons and allow acess and so on

i do agree that there is more customization and security and with the linux setup, BUT for the ability to achieve this you have to understand a deep knowledge of how it all works, and for this, this reason alone is why linux will never become mainstream as average joe will not want to learn how to use linux, he just wants his box to work

[metro]

Linux has come a long way, but it still has quite a bit of distance to go. The main issue I have is the array of different distro's that have different features and methods of install. Some distro's are really user friendly, and some are definitely geared for the advanced Linux user that knows what they are doing.

I just recently tried to install SuSe 9.3 Pro, specified to install to my 2nd HDD, and it wiped out both my Windows HDD and the HDD I was going to use with a format. Let's just say I wasn't too pleased with it, and it appeared that I had done nothing wrong on the install. I will give it another try on a different system, but I am not the average consumer. If I can struggle with getting it installed, then I feel bad for the average person. I applaud people who are Linux guru's and hope to become familar and comfortable with it.

There has been a lot of immaturity and ignorance in this thread, from people who know nothing and only speculate. I would suggest using google and reading up on some things. You might learn a thing or two.

[SierraSonic]

I would have to say Windows is easier to use on a daily bases.

It has better hardware support, better standard setting software support, and games.

I like to be able to use my "7" button mouse out of the box without havign to download 2 files and configure 7. I like to update my ATI video drivers without having to know how to recompile a kernal.

I find mIRC, and most offical Chat programs more functional than the linux alternatives. Even the Windows Only Multi-Chat Programs feel more functional. *Trillian*

I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer being able to play my games at 100% out of the box, without having to get Windows emulators and learn how to configure them and then only run games at about 60% of what they should be running at.

I'm sure all of you are going to counter me with "what about security?" or "its not that hard unless your a n00b!" or "give it some time it takes time to learn the best"... but why would I or anyone want to waste time learning how to go out of my way to do everything the hard way when Windows is just so much easier and automated.

[David Scaife]

I'm sure all of you are going to counter me with "what about security?" or "its not that hard unless your a n00b!" or "give it some time it takes time to learn the best"... but why would I or anyone want to waste time learning how to go out of my way to do everything the hard way when Windows is just so much easier and automated.

586252723[/snapback]

Quite the contrary. I (and I'm sure, many others) respect the fact that you seem to have actually given Linux a fair go, and have decided that it's not for you. I think there should be more people who do as you have done.

[SierraSonic]

Quite the contrary. I (and I'm sure, many others) respect the fact that you seem to have actually given Linux a fair go, and have decided that it's not for you. I think there should be more people who do as you have done.

586252764[/snapback]

Thanks, and I'm not gonna stop trying it either, in fact I want linux to give windows some run for its money. Competition only makes products better. :p

[markwolfe Veteran]

The reason i say this, as for the linux distro we still have yet to see across the board driver support and the biggest lacking feature is the double click to install... this is the key difference in my mind.  when a user wants to install a program he just double clicks installs and answers a few questions about where to save the info and he is good to go.  with linux you have to set permissons and allow acess and so on

586252706[/snapback]

Perhaps you need to be introduced to Synaptic. It is many times better than what exists in the Windows world. (Y)

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...#entry586110347

Synaptic also keeps your kernel, OS, and every app (that you installed with synaptic, anyhow) up to date.

[bdsams Veteran]

Perhaps you need to be introduced to Synaptic.  It is many times better than what exists in the Windows world. (Y)

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...#entry586110347

Synaptic also keeps your kernel, OS, and every app (that you installed with synaptic, anyhow) up to date.

586252825[/snapback]

i should have been more specific i gues in my explination..when i used red hat (8.0 i believe) i had more fits with trying to, for lack of a better term, unzip files...i belive they were tar bell files? in xp if i have a zipped file i can double click it and it can self extract it self if needed you dont have to go into shell or do anything like that

now i dont no if i tried the program that you just mentioned ( name sounds familiar but i may be thinking of symantic :blush: ) maybe that may have given me a better feeling fo linux

i do belive i gave red hat a fair chance tho for me, i ran 8.0 for atleast a month maybe two, heck i even bought the "red hat linux for dummies book" :blush: which helped out some but after a month or two i just couldnt get everything to work the way i needed it too, and missed the simplicity of XP and thus im back on it again

[hornett]

i should have been more specific i gues in my explination..when i used red hat (8.0 i believe) i had more fits with trying to, for lack of a better term, unzip files...i belive they were tar bell files? in xp if i have a zipped file i can double click it and it can self extract it self if needed you dont have to go into shell or do anything like that

I haven't used RH8, my experience with Redhat distros started at Fedora Core 1 but even then you could double click a .zip, .tar.gz etc and have a GUI program open and extract the files.

As for installing software, as Mark said we have Synaptic but also there is Autopackage, which does a much more Windows-style install. Double clicking the .package file automatically downloads everything needed and installs the package.

Flash demo is available here: http://www.autopackage.org/flash-demo-install.html

[markwolfe Veteran]

i should have been more specific i gues in my explination..when i used red hat (8.0 i believe) i had more fits with trying to, for lack of a better term, unzip files...i belive they were tar bell files?  in xp if i have a zipped file i can double click it and it can self extract it self if needed you dont have to go into shell or do anything like that

586252889[/snapback]

Sounds like what is termed "RPM Hell". Dealing with a single, self-contained RPM (no dependencies on other software, or uses dependencies/libraries you already have installed) is nearly identical to the Windows .exe method. Double-click and it is installed. However, if it needs some library that you don't have installed, it will stop and complain. You manually find that library and double-click that RPM, and it will complain that it needs this other library. :crazy:

This is what a package manager (like synaptic, apt-get, yum, yast, etc.) will do. You just pick the app, and it will identify and install all of the dependencies (if you give it permission when it asks if it is OK to download the extras). RedHat 8 didn't have yum (I don't think so), so it is quite likely that you got stuck (and understandably frustrated) with RPM hell.

That is what made me quit Linux after trying Red Hat 5.1, so I understand the feeling of "Linux isn't ready for me, yet". :yes:

[dotRoot]

in addition, i think linux is fine for making word documents and running servers, but latest games dont play, so i dont see how consumers will switch,

and using ut2004 as a game for linux doesnt really count since it was designed to run with linux.

586252519[/snapback]

HalfLife 2 ran the first day it was out via transgaming on Linux, even Battlefield 2.

how can u say i havent used linux in years, so SUSE 9.2 pro is old now is it.

I DONT WANT U TO SLATE MY WINDOWS FORUM, I DONT GO IN IT.

WAT DO OVERCLOCKERS USE, WINDOWS.

GRAPHIC DESIGNERS, APPLE MAC

i think you think your special cos u can work a os that no one else can, because windows has 2 many loop holes that make it impossible to use.

ooo it crashes all the time, u might be thinking...

BULL****.

586252530[/snapback]

First off. I overclock and I use Linux. I even run a production server with a 2.8 GHz P4 overclocked to 3.2 GHz on air. Stable. Heck its been running 8 to 10 game servers with lots of webservers for 68 days now. PM me if you'd like a shell account to log into and I'll even start KDE for you if you want a GUI to VNC to. You can give it a whirl and see what you think.

Graphic Designers use Linux as well. The GIMP is NOT meant to replace Photoshop, but guess what. It gets done everything an average person that uses Photoshop does just the same. Plus Photoshop runs fine on Linux via a "Compatibility Layer", because it doesn't actually emulate anything really. It just translates API, but doesn't actually just shove its own API system in to mimic Windows, like Windows apps do.

So nobody can use an OS and I think I'm special for it? Plenty of people can use Linux.

If we thought we were 'special' and were elitest then Linux users would be posting in the Windows forums. But we don't have anything to defend for our OS. It is the Windows users who come in here to defend their OS out of the blue.

i should have been more specific i gues in my explination..when i used red hat (8.0 i believe) i had more fits with trying to, for lack of a better term, unzip files...i belive they were tar bell files? in xp if i have a zipped file i can double click it and it can self extract it self if needed you dont have to go into shell or do anything like that

Redhat 8 is pretty ancient. You can unzip files and Tarballs in the GUI by doubleclicking them.

But I do know what you are talking about. Compiling and RPM dependancy hell can be very daunting, but most distros use package managers as Mark has said. I'd like to elaborate on it, since this is one of the big misconceptions about Linux still.

Most package managers make it very easy to install programs now and even update your entire system. They come with decent repositories to download from already configured too. You might find later on you want to add more, but probably not if you are just your average user.

In the command line, it usually take 1 or 2 commands to install anything. But it will find, download and install for you automatically. No compiling. And it'll find its dependancies for you and installs those as well without you having to do anything.

Also they are usually configured as good to go for almost all apps.

I think you'd see a big difference between RH 8 and any modern Linux distro. Just make a new thread and say what your basic needs are and I'm sure we'd be happy to help. One of the downfalls of getting into Linux is the number of choices for everything and it can be very confusing when just trying to pick a distro. But if Windows fits your needs, than certainly there is no reason to switch.

Edited July 22, 2005 by dotRoot