My first impressions of Opera

[liquilife]

You may be interested in this option, when you right click on the tab bar and click customize (may look slightly different to you, this is a screenshot from Opera 8 Beta 2). This will make the tab bar hide if only one tab is open.

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Yes, I found that using Beta8. Solved my tab problem! :)

[lav-chan]

lav, you are giving yourself way to much credit. Opera is very simple in design. Anyone could pick up Opera and run with it. The basic features of a browser are very evident in Opera. You actually have to look around to see how deep and flexible the browser is. The same people who would struggle with opera are the same ones who would struggle with Firefox and/or IE.

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Maybe, maybe not.

Up until just recently, Opera's default configuration was really busy. They fixed this in Opera 8, but in previous versions Opera had all kinds of junk enabled by default that i think would completely confuse someone who wasn't already really familiar with the functions of a Web browser. The side bar alone would confuse people probably, never mind all these crazy buttons all over the place and the seventeen search bars. Firetruck, on the other hand, is almost exactly like Internet Explorer by default. Has a few less buttons, has an extra search box, but other than that it looks the same.

I mean, i don't know, maybe 'n00bs' would just be able to jump straight into Opera. I'm not a 'n00b', so i guess i wouldn't really know. But just looking at the default configurations, it's obvious who's putting out more effort to be 'n00b-friendly' (Firefox).

[liquilife]

Maybe, maybe not.

Up until just recently, Opera's default configuration was really busy. They fixed this in Opera 8, but in previous versions Opera had all kinds of junk enabled by default that i think would completely confuse someone who wasn't already really familiar with the functions of a Web browser. The side bar alone would confuse people probably, never mind all these crazy buttons all over the place and the seventeen search bars. Firetruck, on the other hand, is almost exactly like Internet Explorer by default. Has a few less buttons, has an extra search box, but other than that it looks the same.

I mean, i don't know, maybe 'n00bs' would just be able to jump straight into Opera. I'm not a 'n00b', so i guess i wouldn't really know. But just looking at the default configurations, it's obvious who's putting out more effort to be 'n00b-friendly' (Firefox).

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Point well taken. This could also explain the typical complaint formed agaist Opera. Feature bloat. Perhaps it could be because of the overlaod of buttons and toolbars on the default setup. I see that Opera8 has really done a great deal to grind down the default setup to look a bit more minimalistic. It could be Opera has taken notice of the success of Firefox and moved towards the same direction. I have no idea what the older versions of Opera loked like but from the general consensus it seems toolbar bloat was an issue. I know the first thing I did when I initially ran Opera7 was remove many toolbars along with 5 or 6 search bars.

I agree that Firefox is targeting users of IE more so then Opera is. Whether or not these less computer literate users could quickly grow comfortable with Opera... I don't know. I still stand on the fact that those who would be utterly confused with Opera is still the same bunch that would have problems figuring out such mundane tasks as clearing thier temporary internet files in IE.

I guess we'll never truly know until the day (if it ever happens) Opera removes the advertisement banner and the average user flocks to use it. By the way, that makes me wonder. How many people faithfully use Opera with the banners without paying?

[lav-chan]

Much as i love it, i sure don't.... <_<

I've said i'll buy it when 8 final is released. They're making me wait though~

[uniacidz]

Love Opera also.

Of course tried FF but wasnt to my liking.

I do agree that the 7.X series of Opera has AOT of stuff shown up as default, but apparently the newer build is more sleek and less busy.

Good to see you like the browser.

[jack_canada]

Maybe, maybe not.

Up until just recently, Opera's default configuration was really busy. They fixed this in Opera 8, but in previous versions Opera had all kinds of junk enabled by default that i think would completely confuse someone who wasn't already really familiar with the functions of a Web browser. The side bar alone would confuse people probably, never mind all these crazy buttons all over the place and the seventeen search bars. Firetruck, on the other hand, is almost exactly like Internet Explorer by default. Has a few less buttons, has an extra search box, but other than that it looks the same.

I mean, i don't know, maybe 'n00bs' would just be able to jump straight into Opera. I'm not a 'n00b', so i guess i wouldn't really know. But just looking at the default configurations, it's obvious who's putting out more effort to be 'n00b-friendly' (Firefox).

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Just because Firefox got a clean and uncluttered interface doesn't mean it's intended to be "noob friendly". A lot of Linux browsers have similar interface as Firefox, like Epiphany and Konqueror. And Epiphany&Konqueror are certainly NOT intended to be for noobs! So your argument of firefox being a noob browser doesn't make sense, it's more likely that the developers of firefox used this interface design to KISS.

[d_ralphie]

I know the first thing I did when I initially ran Opera7 was remove many toolbars along with 5 or 6 search bars.

uh, i know that this is firefox territory and all, but let's at least try to stay factual :)

opera 7.5 has an address bar and a personal bar by default. you can also get a main bar if you enable generic ads. there's a google search field on the address bar (an opera invention!) and a couple of search fields on the personal bar.

that's not the same as '5 or 6 search bars' :)

A lot of Linux browsers have similar interface as Firefox, like Epiphany and Konqueror. And Epiphany&Konqueror are certainly NOT intended to be for noobs!

why not? are you saying that kde and gnome are not supposed to be used by newbies?

but you do have a point, konqueror doesn't exactly have a lack of toolbar buttons. actually, is a bit better in this regard.

but the fact remains that one of the outspoken goals of firefox is to make it easy to use for newbies. opera, too, is becoming increasingly easy to use, but at the same time increasingly powerful.

[liquilife]

Ralphie, it's called sarcasm. Compared to my Firefox setup of the past few years of only 1 bar for everything it was bloating to the eyes. I did promptly remove 3 search bars and 2 toolbars.

[arrrgh]

The point you are missing is that Firefox is the most flexible browser out there. As it is, it offers nice secure alternative for IE and if you're more experienced with computers you can easily cook up your own extensions or hack the browser itself to fit your browsing needs. I personalyl think that Opera's solution is more n00b friendly than Firefox's, it's a bit like express install option on some setup programs. You click it and everything gets installed automatically, with Firefox you just install the core, rest is up to you.

As for the roboform issue..

Opera does not support it because it didn't provide the RoboForm APIs necessary for its operation (DOM), though Opera's tech support says it's something they'll definitely add sometime next year.

That was 3 years ago or so. I don't know if Opera provided the information Roboform needed or if Roboform just said screw it. Obviously something went wrong.

And sorry for the off topic post :)

[d_ralphie]

the quote comes from this page:

http://www.itnetcentral.com/article.asp?id=8061

it is not an official opera statement.

and opera DID add proper dom level 1/2 support in opera 7, released in january 2003.

[trigger_my_passion]

Allow me to digress from the original poster's content:

To me, it's not only the browser speed, memory management, price and performance that matters but also the philosophy (the way the browsers are designed in a way that appeals to the user).

By default, Opera:

- restores earlier sessions

- opens links that open in new windows in tabs

- lets you move tabs around

- has 'paste and go'

- double click on a word brings up context menu w/ useful options like google search

I am guessing once someone is used to these, they would quickly realize how valuable these are for day-to-day browsing. Opera recognizes the value of these and provides them by default. That's one of the reasons I like it. It's just more intelligent or so appears to me.

If only, they realize the usefulness of AdBlock.....

Edited March 2, 2005 by trigger_my_passion

[javagreen]

Okay, a question that's not related to this topic... HOW do I configure Gmail for pop3 access via Opera's mail client? I mean the mail client that comes built within the browser.. so that I can use Opera to access GMail

Need help about that, please...

[+unabatedshagie Subscriber¹]

have you made sure gmail has been configured for pop access.

i have attached a screeny of my m2 settings

[javagreen]

Hey... thanks for the quick reply :)

Yep, I've set it all up properly (i guess) attaching my own screenie..

But it craps out on me :\

We have a proxy at work but I've entered the proxy settings properly in Opera's proxy config dialog... is there anything else I'm missing out on?

[celestialspring]

Java Green, does Gmail work in any other Email client? If no, then it is time to call your ISP and tell them about it. I heard somebody on the Opera Community board complaining about this.

I dont see the word plain text in your setting windows as opposed to mine and the one that was previously posted. Which version of Opera are you using?

see the attachement for details.

Edited March 2, 2005 by celestialspring

[javagreen]

@celestialspring: I'm running Opera version 7.54u2 .. in there I see Auto and Plaintext listed seperately... no Auto(plaintext) though. I have not tested GMail with any other mail client ...i'll try to check up with my IT people if they've blocked pop3 or something.. I'm able to access gmail through FF and IE without any problems

[celestialspring]

So please do a test with some other email client and get back to us. You would also be able to login to the web interface of Gmail, once you upgrade from 7.54 to 7.6 preview, better to 8 Beta 2 or 1.

I also suggest that you try and put plaintext in the settings and see if that works.

[javagreen]

Nope, no luck. No matter what I do.. it just wont connect to the gmail pop3 server. We arent allowed to install any other mail clients, so I cant test it :|

At home though I'm able to access my mail using pop3 with Opera 7.54, no problems

Thanks anyway :)

[Help]

Don't bother trying to convince them.

Firefox users apparently find customizing Opera's toolbar very difficult and complicated, not to mention time-consuming, yet they manage to install 5 or more Firefox extensions from a website that doesn't even have proper search function, everytime they re-install Firefox.

Oh my...  :rolleyes:

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Reality Check

Anyways, even since I first installed Firefox (0.7 - Firebird), I have no problems of upgrading (while keeping my stuff) and I only had to reinstall firefox for the 1.0 upgrade, no biggie.

Some more than others.

The point is when Firefox users brag about all these features that they have as if they invented them, as if everybody else is just playing catch-up to Firefox. I don't care whether they invented them or not, what i care about is that they act like Firefox (or Mozilla) innovatively came up with all these fantastic features, and they didn't.

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It's called advertising... and there is never enough of it.

Anyways... it's like calling Firefox, Firetruck... it does no harm.

Firefox IS for 'n00bs'. It is designed to work out of the box in a similar fashion to Internet Explorer, which is what the less-computer-savvy people of the world typically are used to. It LOOKS like Internet Explorer, and it's designed to be AS SIMPLE as Internet Explorer.

That isn't a bad thing -- i personally think Opera should go the same route, because it would encourage people to switch over. But that doesn't change the fact that it is designed with 'n00bs' in mind. As terribly offended as you might get to be grouped in with them.

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Yes, Firefox is meant to look like Internet Explorer, but why is that labeled for noobs? What you see is only skin deep, it's what inside that matters. Have you considered that there are extensions available to Firefox, which means that Firefox is for advanced users too? I don?t understand what?s with the common perception that a program with a simple user interface means that it has less advanced functionality.

BTW, type ?about:config? in Firefox? that?s as advanced as a web browser can get.

using flip forward or forward mouse gesture to activate fast forward to log in using the wand, heck yeah! you can't do that with firefox. there are lots of similar time-savers that firefox just can't beat.

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You know, (I don?t know what site you?re referring to), but I think that most webpages that has a login dialog has the default focus on the ?log in? / ?sign-in? button, meaning that clicking on the ?enter? / ?return? key will log you in.

Firefox and opera are both good browsers. Firefox comes in a minimal pack, where as opera comes in a feature rich pack. Opera has a lot of innovative features and some of them are avaliable for firefox via extensions (Firefox has it's own unique extensions that Opera doesn't have). In terms of efficiency, Opera in size and performance beats firefox. But I support firefox because it's open source, and the fact that it has extensions. Which allows me to personalize Firefox the way I want it in terms of the looks(themes) of it and functions that it has. (extensions) I like to think of it as a barebone system vs. a computer from a big manufacturer (e.g. Dell, Apple, Gateway..)

Edited March 3, 2005 by Help

[lav-chan]

Yes, Firefox is meant to look like Internet Explorer, but why is that labeled for noobs?

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You are stuck on the use of the word 'noobs'. 'Noobs' means people who aren't computer experts. It's not meant to be offensive. At least, not the way i used it, i guess i can't speak for that first guy. They designed Firefox (which is a browser -- extensions are not Firefox, they are extensions) to be easy for non-experts ('noobs') to switch over to, therefore it is designed for noobs.

Think of it this way, maybe: Firetruck out of the box is like Windows. It comes idiot-proof, just like Windows does with all its huge buttons and help bubbles and animated search companions. If you want, you can go out and get a bunch of fancy advanced add-on stuff, but it isn't designed straight out of the package to be like that.

BTW, type ‘about:config’ in Firefox… that’s as advanced as a web browser can get.

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Why do you think they hide those options in a barren pretty-much-undocumented config page that you have to have some expert tell you about in order to find?

[worbd]

If only, they realize the usefulness of AdBlock.....

Opera relies on ads. How do you think they would look to the world if they included something like AdBlock? They encourage people to block ads on web sites, while showing them their own ads? Heh.

Why not use one of the many options that are already available for ad blocking in Opera, such as CSS, proxies or URL filtering? Have a look at this:

http://www.monroeworld.com/operafilter/