Arckon Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I must say that I'd love to use Linux full time. But I just haven't used it long enough to get it to do all the things I can do w/ Win XP. I've tried a few different distros in the past few yrs, and haven't found that "special" distro yet. Well, I thought I had one when I tried Ubuntu. All of my hardware worked just fine, but I prefer KDE over Gnome. So I'm going to hold off until Kubuntu is done and I'll try that again. Right now I dual boot between Win XP SP2 and MEPIS. The install for MEPIS was one of the best I've seen (mostly because of the Live CD install). But I'm having probs w/ my SB Live! (the sound stutters when I receive a msg in gaim). And I miss some things that SuSe had (like the config stuff w/ YaST). Also, I really think the hardware devs need to make drivers for their hardware. That is a major thing keeping me away from GNU/Linux. It has so much potential, but there's just some flaws that I find it too hard to give up Windows for another OS right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted March 18, 2005 Veteran Share Posted March 18, 2005 (edited) im not trying to be an ass here... but just wondering- Ive never used OR even SEEN linux! Really, what are the advantages of switching over? Is it really that much faster than windows? how hard is it to install- for example- installing win xp is a snap- insert disc, insert key follow prompts... done- is it as simple as that? what progs work for it? photoshop? illstrator? macromedia? if these dont work that half my reason for even using it! speed wise- how is it faster than win xp? programs? internet? general GUI usage? 585632461[/snapback] Is it faster? It can be faster or slower, depending on your choices (Window Manager, services, etc.) It can be tricky to install & configure, or it can be easier than Windows (where you really need to get driver CDs for some products). I would generally say it is more difficult to configure at this point in time, but maintaining it is MUCH easier. Do those apps in particular run? If you require specific Windows-only apps, don't bother looking at Linux. If you are concerned about using any app that gets you the functionality you need, then Linux may be an option. Short answers to questions that could use lengthier answers, but should get the general idea across. :) EDIT: Also, I really think the hardware devs need to make drivers for their hardware. That is a major thing keeping me away from GNU/Linux.585632480[/snapback] 100% agreed! The fact is, at this point, with desktop Linux around 1% of the market, many OEMs couldn't be bothered with supporting Linux. Some do, though. ATI is pretty good, and nVidia is excellent, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Veteran Posted March 18, 2005 Veteran Share Posted March 18, 2005 This is alittle off topic but what are the init levels? like run levels... in my NORMAL setting using debian i am at init 2.... because i cant get to the logon with the command prompt and stuff... but i type init 1 and terminal it does that etc goes down but i cant start x.. as soon as init 2 starts then x/gnome starts again.. On topic: I am using just debian now and I am happy.. Now to figure out how to change my title from fedora lOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EduardValencia Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Is it faster? It can be faster or slower, depending on your choices (Window Manager, services, etc.)It can be tricky to install & configure, or it can be easier than Windows (where you really need to get driver CDs for some products). I would generally say it is more difficult to configure at this point in time, but maintaining it is MUCH easier. Do those apps in particular run? If you require specific Windows-only apps, don't bother looking at Linux. If you are concerned about using any app that gets you the functionality you need, then Linux may be an option. Short answers to questions that could use lengthier answers, but should get the general idea across. :) 585632482[/snapback] hmmm duly answered markjensen,has it's spice on it ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakiner Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Arckon, try gentoo. People may tell you that it is hard to install, but if you follow the installation instructions from the manual on the gentoo website, it is very straight forward (although time consuming). Also, it has the best installation system I have ever used, Portage. Once you have your USE flags configured, installing a new program custom tuned to fit your PC is as easy as: emerge [package]. You can easily install new programs such as kde or gnome, and any of the other window managers. The only thing people might dislike about it is that emerge will actually compile the programs, rather than simply install them from a binary package. This means it takes more time to install things, but it also means your programs run much faster. Another great thing about emerge is that it installs all the dependancies for you :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted March 18, 2005 Veteran Share Posted March 18, 2005 This is alittle off topic but what are the init levels? like run levels... in my NORMAL setting using debian i am at init 2.... because i cant get to the logon with the command prompt and stuff... but i type init 1 and terminal it does that etc goes down but i cant start x.. as soon as init 2 starts then x/gnome starts again..On topic: I am using just debian now and I am happy.. Now to figure out how to change my title from fedora lOL 585632487[/snapback] Do a less /etc/inittab to see for yourself. ;) # 0 - halt (Do NOT set initdefault to this) # 1 - Single user mode # 2 - Multiuser, without NFS (The same as 3, if you do not have networking) # 3 - Full multiuser mode # 4 - unused # 5 - X11 # 6 - reboot (Do NOT set initdefault to this) This is typical. I know that Slack differs, in that runlevel 4 is GUI - not 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Veteran Posted March 18, 2005 Veteran Share Posted March 18, 2005 Do a less /etc/inittab to see for yourself. ;) # 0 - halt (Do NOT set initdefault to this) # 1 - Single user mode # 2 - Multiuser, without NFS (The same as 3, if you do not have networking) # 3 - Full multiuser mode # 4 - unused # 5 - X11 # 6 - reboot (Do NOT set initdefault to this) This is typical. I know that Slack differs, in that runlevel 4 is GUI - not 5. 585632501[/snapback] Thanks markjensen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmcv Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Why do people think they're uber-l33t rebels just because they don't use Windows? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted March 18, 2005 Veteran Share Posted March 18, 2005 Why do people think they're uber-l33t rebels just because they don't use Windows? :huh: 585632514[/snapback] Some might, but I think I explained that up a few posts: https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...#entry585632325 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowlick Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 naw. most people are just speaking as part of the "I hate Microsoft but really don't know why other than becouse I heard it was the thing to do" herd.The way I see it. Everyone who has switched is trying to prove just how much they don't need Microsoft products. Almost like they are trying to justify using Linux. and what really gets me laughing is how these Linux converts glorify thier new Operating System yet keep a copy of Windows on thier partition "just in case" 585632282[/snapback] Agreed. When my grandpa saw the permissions chart I had on my monitor that I used when I was doing a lot with Perl he started talking to me about Linux and kept bringing me boxes of Mandrake, RedHat and SuSE but every time me & my mom went to his apartment I saw him on Windows Me! I'm not saying I hate Linux; I think it's far away from a desktop OS I would give my other grandpa & grandma to install and use, let alone myself. Prime example - Linspire IS (semi-)easy to use(understand) ... and useful IF you keep paying for new (freeware, open source) software. Sorry, but I just don't want to subscribe to my OS after paying for it because that was the simplest way a Linux distributer could figure out how to make the OS useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-n-t Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 EDIT:100% agreed! The fact is, at this point, with desktop Linux around 1% of the market, many OEMs couldn't be bothered with supporting Linux. Some do, though. ATI is pretty good, and nVidia is excellent, for example. 585632482[/snapback] no, ATI is not good at all. nvidia IS excellent, but ATI's drivers just plain suck. the reason why it appears they have good linux support is that they actually have drivers, whereas most companies just let the users make their own. the difference however is that linux users are not capable of creating a driver for hardware that does not have openspecifications and is as complicated as a video card. iconboy, those apps do run in wine, but performance will end up being slower than in windows. there are alternatives however such as gimp(as powerful but not as easy to use as photoshop) and inkscape, which is an awesome vector program. however, when it comes to general OS stuff, linux is not only faster but more powerful and better looking than windows as well. check out the desktops thread so you can see what linux looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EduardValencia Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Why do people think they're uber-l33t rebels just because they don't use Windows? :huh: 585632514[/snapback] Some truly linux users aren't (markjensen,among others)that trully recognizes the advantages and disadvantages that linux implies,but there are lot's of rebels just to get some attention.Windows in other part offers the same to a normal user,configured correctly (same as linux) could satisfy your needs and beyond,for example i'm a Pro windows and my pc doesen't have a single crash,except from some minor glitches.so i don't have reason to change :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted March 18, 2005 Veteran Share Posted March 18, 2005 I'm not saying I hate Linux; I think it's far away from a desktop OS I would give my other grandpa & grandma to install and use, let alone myself. Prime example - Linspire IS (semi-)easy to use(understand) ... and useful IF you keep paying for new (freeware, open source) software. Sorry, but I just don't want to subscribe to my OS after paying for it because that was the simplest way a Linux distributer could figure out how to make the OS useful.585632527[/snapback] A) You don't have to subscribe to get Linux B) Even if you do, what are the costs of constant upgrades to Windows? And, if you use it on multiple PCs? (some people have listed 5 to 10 PCs in their household) Gets a wee bit pricy there, when even Linspire has a 'household' install policy. no, ATI is not good at all. nvidia IS excellent, but ATI's drivers just plain suck. the reason why it appears they have good linux support is that they actually have drivers, whereas most companies just let the users make their own.585632530[/snapback] I disagree. ATI at least recognizes the Linux market, and produces a product. It may not be speedy, or support the the variety of archetectures (not sure if they offer 64-bit CPU support yet). But they put forth an effort, and their drivers do make their cards usable on most systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowlick Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 A) You don't have to subscribe to get LinuxB) Even if you do, what are the costs of constant upgrades to Windows? And, if you use it on multiple PCs? (some people have listed 5 to 10 PCs in their household) Gets a wee bit pricy there, when even Linspire has a 'household' install policy. I disagree. ATI at least recognizes the Linux market, and produces a product. It may not be speedy, or support the the variety of archetectures (not sure if they offer 64-bit CPU support yet). But they put forth an effort, and their drivers do make their cards usable on most systems. 585632557[/snapback] I never said you had to subscribe to aquire Linux, but from what I understood while trying out Linspire a few months ago you could only install software from their "warehouse" which you had to pay to get access even for free, open source projects. As for pricing that's a non-issue as my moms friend works for Microsoft and I just go to her when I need MS software and get a discount (~$30 for XP Professional). And that, by no means has any effect on my Linux opinion ... this to-remain-nameless friend is annoyed that I actually bought and eMac and requested the Mac Office and she was worried that since the company store records everything you buy (I assume so you can't buy 1,000 copies of XP and resell it for half the retail price and make a profit) that someone high up would go "Hmm.... she bought a Mac product... why does she have a Mac?!!!?" (and I love OS X). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-n-t Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Some truly linux users aren't (markjensen,among others)that trully recognizes the advantages and disadvantages that linux implies,but there are lot's of rebels just to get some attention.Windows in other part offers the same to a normal user,configured correctly (same as linux) could satisfy your needs and beyond,for example i'm a Pro windows and my pc doesen't have a single crash,except from some minor glitches.so i don't have reason to change :) 585632541[/snapback] some things are out of your control though. badly written drivers are a big reason why 'doze BSOD's, and there isnt much you can do about it. true, windows can satisfy your needs if configured correctly, but in linux its just "set it and forget it," in windows you are constantly having to update the OS/virus scans/spyware scans/defragging. you could litterally configure a linux box and never update or maintain anythin adn after a year of regular use it will still be the same as the day you started using it. however, i ussually update something or another every day :p also, hte 1337 linux users dont last for more than a couple weeks anyway. you have to be in it for more than the 1337ness if you are going to take the time to figure out how linux works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-n-t Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I never said you had to subscribe to aquire Linux, but from what I understood while trying out Linspire a few months ago you could only install software from their "warehouse" which you had to pay to get access even for free, open source projects. 585632582[/snapback] a. they offer more than just free OS software, they have commercial apps as well b. they need to be sustainable. unlike windows which needs udpating every few years, you can continue to use a linux distro for a very long time and all you have to do is just update the packages and it will stay up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted March 18, 2005 Veteran Share Posted March 18, 2005 (edited) ^^^ There are constant updates in Linux, too. :whistle: EDIT: Arrrgh... Reply is to post #65. :ermm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-n-t Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 ^^^ There are constant updates in Linux, too. :whistle: 585632607[/snapback] but not critical ones... like i said, i update something eveyr day, but with apt/yum/whatever, its so much easier than windows anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBG Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I'm dual booting for now, just installed Ubuntu today (Hoary test version, seems to be working well, but I don't know much about Linux to begin with). Don't know if I'm ever going to make a complete switch though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazG Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Nice :) This was a good thread to read while doing "apt-get upgrade" :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Horizons Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 some things are out of your control though. badly written drivers are a big reason why 'doze BSOD's, and there isnt much you can do about it.true, windows can satisfy your needs if configured correctly, but in linux its just "set it and forget it," in windows you are constantly having to update the OS/virus scans/spyware scans/defragging. you could litterally configure a linux box and never update or maintain anythin adn after a year of regular use it will still be the same as the day you started using it. however, i ussually update something or another every day :p 585632598[/snapback] 1.) If I was using badly-written drivers on linux, what could I do about it? That's a genuine question, I'm just curious, because you're implying there would be a solution on linux. 2.) In Windows, I have the computer set to auto-update. It downloads and installs the updates for me. Every once in a while I have to restart and I lose 52 seconds of my life, but other than that it's no bother. I don't use antivirus or antispyware (turning off activex in IE works wonders) and I never defrag. Of course, there's no easy way to update all your programs, so I'll give you that one ;). So maintaining a Windows system isn't bad at all, though probably not quite as nice as a linux system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus- Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 There all good TROLL!!!!Games on Linux: UT 2004 Quake III And quite a few others that i cant think of right now. ;) 585631643[/snapback] didnt id also do Doom3 for nix? i think i remeber it because there was some strange way to get thr game files off the cds... :unsure: Then you had to download and copy over the *nix binarys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-n-t Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 1.) If I was using badly-written drivers on linux, what could I do about it? That's a genuine question, I'm just curious, because you're implying there would be a solution on linux.2.) In Windows, I have the computer set to auto-update. It downloads and installs the updates for me. Every once in a while I have to restart and I lose 52 seconds of my life, but other than that it's no bother. I don't use antivirus or antispyware (turning off activex in IE works wonders) and I never defrag. Of course, there's no easy way to update all your programs, so I'll give you that one ;). So maintaining a Windows system isn't bad at all, though probably not quite as nice as a linux system. 585632773[/snapback] 1.well linux doesnt really use drivers the same way as windows in the sense that they are mostly already included and installed in the OS, so they are less prone to problems. in addition, they dont take down your whole computer. the device may not function properly, or at all, but your computer wont go crazy on you. 2. autoupdate hurts performance, and i dont like MS installing software on my computer without me knowing. windows update and apt-get/whertever upgrade are completly different however and they are on completly different levels. there is autoupdate in linux as well, but it doesnt slow your computer down as much as windows auto. you dont defrag windows? you should, ideally, you should do it once a week or your computer really starts to slow down a lot. firefox is great, but it doesnt block against virii and some bad cookies do get in. and yes, there is doom3 in linux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arckon Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 1.well linux doesnt really use drivers the same way as windows in the sense that they are mostly already included and installed in the OS, so they are less prone to problems. in addition, they dont take down your whole computer. the device may not function properly, or at all, but your computer wont go crazy on you. 2. autoupdate hurts performance, and i dont like MS installing software on my computer without me knowing. windows update and apt-get/whertever upgrade are completly different however and they are on completly different levels. there is autoupdate in linux as well, but it doesnt slow your computer down as much as windows auto. you dont defrag windows? you should, ideally, you should do it once a week or your computer really starts to slow down a lot. firefox is great, but it doesnt block against virii and some bad cookies do get in. and yes, there is doom3 in linux. 585632932[/snapback] Since drivers for Linux are done differently on Linux, Wouldn't it still be nice to have all manufacturers actually write their own drivers instead of having Joe Hacker make his own drivers? I'm just saying that the manufacturers *should* know their own hardware better than anyone else (for the most part). I guess my gripe is that I want real drivers for my hardware from the manufacturers so that it can be used to it's full capacity just like it is in Windows. As for the defrag part, are there any linux defrag programs? I thought all file systems were subject to fragmenting no matter what the OS? I'd like some clarification here since i'm still somewhat a n00b to *nix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowlick Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 a. they offer more than just free OS software, they have commercial apps as wellb. they need to be sustainable. unlike windows which needs udpating every few years, you can continue to use a linux distro for a very long time and all you have to do is just update the packages and it will stay up to date. 585632606[/snapback] A. I know they have commercial apps, I was just saying that it's pretty crappy when you have to pay to be able to install free software. B. What exactly forces anyone to upgrade to newer versions of Windows compared to Linux? As far as I knew, absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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