*FINAL* PC Specs, about to build a PC

By oddcrap
in Hardware Hangout

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Grand Master

oddcrap

Posted
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Posted
There are plenty of tutorials, but no such thing as OCing your CPU without OCing your memory, unless you set it on a divider.

If you want, I can give you an overview here.

Only if you know how to overclock. If you don't, I'd recommend you get Corsair Value Select. Read up on how to OC first before you buy OC components.

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Well, the truth is I don't know how to overclock. This is my first time overclocking anything (OEM Currently) and building. I just want to be able to raise the clock FREQ to something of 2.6-2.8. Without really messing with anything else, because it can get confusing.

Grand Master

Cyrilix

Posted
Posted
Well, the truth is I don't know how to overclock. This is my first time overclocking anything (OEM Currently) and building. I just want to be able to raise the clock FREQ to something of 2.6-2.8. Without really messing with anything else, because it can get confusing.

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Well, technically this should go into overclocking forums...but anyway:

CPU speed is determined by your multiplier and your bus speed. The default bus speed for ALL Athlon 64s is 200 MHz. Actually, we call it the HTT. The multiplier multiplies the HTT to give you a CPU speed.

ex: 3700+ is 11x multiplier, therefore it's 11x200 = 2.2 GHz.

Memory typically runs 1:1 with the bus speed. If the bus speed is 200 MHz, then it is exactly 1:1 with PC3200 memory, since PC3200 memory runs at 200 MHz (DDR400).

That said, you can either overclock the CPU by increasing the multiplier or by increasing the bus speed. The multiplier for all Athlon 64s is locked -- only the Athlon FX series has unlocked multipliers, therefore, you have to resort to option 2, overclocking via bus speed. If you raise the bus speed to 250 MHz, then you'll be doing 11x250 = 2.75 GHz. Similarly, memory running at 1:1 with the bus speed will be doing 250 MHz (DDR500). This puts stress on the memory which means that you may have to relax the timings (or in the OCZ VX's case, increase the voltage to the memory). If you watch the video, then you will have a good grasp of what the timings are. There are 4 main timings and also the command rate, which is usually either 1T or 2T. It's a similar concept, 2T command rate is slower than 1T. Lower timings are faster than higher timings.

So...now that we know how to overclock the CPU via bus speed. One thing to know is that increased voltage typically helps when overclocking the CPU. I'm not enough of a computer engineer to explain why, but I'm sure someone else can explain. Don't increase voltage in huge increments, though, or else you risk damaging your processor. One factor that limits overclocking is heat, and increased voltage means more heat dissipation. That's why overclocking requires a decent cooling system.

Grand Master

oddcrap

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Well, technically this should go into overclocking forums...but anyway:

CPU speed is determined by your multiplier and your bus speed. The default bus speed for ALL Athlon 64s is 200 MHz. Actually, we call it the HTT. The multiplier multiplies the HTT to give you a CPU speed.

ex: 3700+ is 11x multiplier, therefore it's 11x200 = 2.2 GHz.

Memory typically runs 1:1 with the bus speed. If the bus speed is 200 MHz, then it is exactly 1:1 with PC3200 memory, since PC3200 memory runs at 200 MHz (DDR400).

That said, you can either overclock the CPU by increasing the multiplier or by increasing the bus speed. The multiplier for all Athlon 64s is locked -- only the Athlon FX series has unlocked multipliers, therefore, you have to resort to option 2, overclocking via bus speed. If you raise the bus speed to 250 MHz, then you'll be doing 11x250 = 2.75 GHz. Similarly, memory running at 1:1 with the bus speed will be doing 250 MHz (DDR500). This puts stress on the memory which means that you may have to relax the timings (or in the OCZ VX's case, increase the voltage to the memory). If you watch the video, then you will have a good grasp of what the timings are. There are 4 main timings and also the command rate, which is usually either 1T or 2T. It's a similar concept, 2T command rate is slower than 1T. Lower timings are faster than higher timings.

So...now that we know how to overclock the CPU via bus speed. One thing to know is that increased voltage typically helps when overclocking the CPU. I'm not enough of a computer engineer to explain why, but I'm sure someone else can explain. Don't increase voltage in huge increments, though, or else you risk damaging your processor. One factor that limits overclocking is heat, and increased voltage means more heat dissipation. That's why overclocking requires a decent cooling system.

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Gotcha, and I do all this via the bios right? Don't need anything else? Software or anything. And by good cooling system do you mean stock cooling lol? Can I do all of this with stock cooling? BTW: Case = coolmaster I think has 3 fans.

EDIT: Whats a good setting to raise the voltage if I get the VX memory? And where can I raise the voltage at BIOS?

Experienced

mr_skrilla

Posted
Posted
Well, technically this should go into overclocking forums...but anyway:

CPU speed is determined by your multiplier and your bus speed. The default bus speed for ALL Athlon 64s is 200 MHz. Actually, we call it the HTT. The multiplier multiplies the HTT to give you a CPU speed.

ex: 3700+ is 11x multiplier, therefore it's 11x200 = 2.2 GHz.

Memory typically runs 1:1 with the bus speed. If the bus speed is 200 MHz, then it is exactly 1:1 with PC3200 memory, since PC3200 memory runs at 200 MHz (DDR400).

That said, you can either overclock the CPU by increasing the multiplier or by increasing the bus speed. The multiplier for all Athlon 64s is locked -- only the Athlon FX series has unlocked multipliers, therefore, you have to resort to option 2, overclocking via bus speed. If you raise the bus speed to 250 MHz, then you'll be doing 11x250 = 2.75 GHz. Similarly, memory running at 1:1 with the bus speed will be doing 250 MHz (DDR500). This puts stress on the memory which means that you may have to relax the timings (or in the OCZ VX's case, increase the voltage to the memory). If you watch the video, then you will have a good grasp of what the timings are. There are 4 main timings and also the command rate, which is usually either 1T or 2T. It's a similar concept, 2T command rate is slower than 1T. Lower timings are faster than higher timings.

So...now that we know how to overclock the CPU via bus speed. One thing to know is that increased voltage typically helps when overclocking the CPU. I'm not enough of a computer engineer to explain why, but I'm sure someone else can explain. Don't increase voltage in huge increments, though, or else you risk damaging your processor. One factor that limits overclocking is heat, and increased voltage means more heat dissipation. That's why overclocking requires a decent cooling system.

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. I don't know exactly why you would need to increase the voltage, but I know that with the increased clock frequency that means that there is less time to change from a 1 to a 0. For intel systems I think that a 1 is an a low voltage, and a 0 is a high voltage. I don't know about AMD systems, but they basically use the same architecture as intel so I think it is the same.

Anyways you have a voltage range that a 1 is recognized (say 0-.3v and the range that a zero is recognized say .6-.8v) so when you change from a logic 1 to a logic 0 you have to have enough time to go make it to the valid range for the other value because the middle range you don't know what will happen. This time is shortened when you increase your CPU speed. Don't know exactly why you need "more" voltage but I know that the range of a valid 1 and a valid 0 will be the same.

Grand Master

Cyrilix

Posted
Posted
Gotcha, and I do all this via the bios right? Don't need anything else? Software or anything. And by good cooling system do you mean stock cooling lol? Can I do all of this with stock cooling? BTW: Case = coolmaster I think has 3 fans.

EDIT: Whats a good setting to raise the voltage if I get the VX memory? And where can I raise the voltage at BIOS?

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Yeah, you do it in the bios.

Stock cooling is usually crappy, although the FX-55 has a good heatsink, although you're not getting FX-55.

Usually, you get an aftermarket cooler if you want to do any serious overclocking.

Voltage setting is guaranteed PC4000 for 3.3V...if it's unstable just increase it. It can take up to 3.5V without invalidating your warranty.

Grand Master

.weir

Posted
Posted
. I don't know exactly why you would need to increase the voltage, but I know that with the increased clock frequency that means that there is less time to change from a 1 to a 0. For intel systems I think that a 1 is an a low voltage, and a 0 is a high voltage. I don't know about AMD systems, but they basically use the same architecture as intel so I think it is the same.

Anyways you have a voltage range that a 1 is recognized (say 0-.3v and the range that a zero is recognized say .6-.8v) so when you change from a logic 1 to a logic 0 you have to have enough time to go make it to the valid range for the other value because the middle range you don't know what will happen. This time is shortened when you increase your CPU speed. Don't know exactly why you need "more" voltage but I know that the range of a valid 1 and a valid 0 will be the same.

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Increasing voltage improves stability in an overclock. Your statement as far as how the clock frequences work is essentially right, except as far as I've learned in school, there are only two states, on and off, no in between voltages. In a normal logic controller (not neccessarily a cpu, 5V is on, 0V is off, if your statement were true, it would be either a sine or sawtooth wave changing between them, but in digital electronics, a square wave is used, so I don't know where you're coming up with this voltage in the middle.

Experienced

mr_skrilla

Posted
Posted (edited)
Increasing voltage improves stability in an overclock. Your statement as far as how the clock frequences work is essentially right, except as far as I've learned in school, there are only two states, on and off, no in between voltages. In a normal logic controller (not neccessarily a cpu, 5V is on, 0V is off, if your statement were true, it would be either a sine or sawtooth wave changing between them, but in digital electronics, a square wave is used, so I don't know where you're coming up with this voltage in the middle.

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It used to be 5V and 0V (an many systems and devices still use this) however with the increase in clock frequencies there needed to be a shorter value between active low and active high to go between. For high voltage 0 with new systems a .8 is usually a 0 and 0v is usually a 1... however the middle range is needed because you want some buffer on close ranges.If the two ranges were right up to eachother a sligh fluctuation could send it over.. With the middle range know that if you get the transistor to that voltage you get a 0... or w/e ... sure you do get values in the middle range however since a small fluctuation in voltage can change your result you don't want to be there.

And about the square wave or whatever that just goes from the above, a voltage cannot change instantaneously so that means it must go through the middle region to get the other region.

Edited by mr_skrilla
Experienced

mr_skrilla

Posted
Posted

Oh and btw.. I though about it and figured out why memory voltage needs to be increased. It is because the FSB speed has been increased forcing the memory to run faster => more power is need and since power = v*i more voltage is need beacuase more power is dissipated.

Grand Master

Argote

Posted
Posted
I would suggest getting one stick of RAM rather than having 2x512 modules.

Also, get the MX518 mouse.  Its newer, better, faster and all that good stuff.

The mouse is not a big jumpe in price.  However, a single 1 gig stick of RAM will set you back a good deal.  I just think its better.  Leaves an extra slot open, may run faster.

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NOOOO get 2x512 to get Dual Channel.. and yes get the MX518

G.Skill

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820231013

Its expensive but worth it

Known as THE BEST in amd systems

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WRONG!!! the OCZ VX Gold is faaaar better with the right voltages (which the DFI MoBo can easily supply)

Are you also reccoemending I get the VX and not the G-Skill?

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Yes the VX dethroned the G.Skill

Oh and for the OC'ing get a Zalman 7700Cu cooler

Experienced

Am_I_Evil

Posted
Posted
NOOOO get 2x512 to get Dual Channel.. and yes get the MX518

WRONG!!! the OCZ VX Gold is faaaar better with the right voltages (which the DFI MoBo can easily supply)

Yes the VX dethroned the G.Skill

Oh and for the OC'ing get a Zalman 7700Cu cooler

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actually this is the new best stuff....still OCZ, but its made special for the DFI NF4 boards (will work in others obviously, but they made it with the DFI in mind and did all the testing in a DFI):

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp...N82E16820227215

Grand Master

stezo2k

Posted
Posted
DDR600 is 300mhz, not 600. and thats still bloody fast. DO NOT buy a single 1gb, buy 2x512 or 2x1gb if u can afford it (reccommended as future upgrade).

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No point going 2 x 1GB, come this time next year, DDR2 will be more mainstream for newer AMD CPUs, so buying a lot of DDR1 memory isn't very futureproof

Grand Master

stezo2k

Posted
Posted
stezo2k, that double post should have been a edit. just so you dont get in trouble with the mods for elevating post count, spoamming, double posting etc ;)

and i reccommended 2x1gb as a FUTURE upgrade. at the moment its pretty useless.

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If I was a spammer, i'd have a much higher post count since i've been registered here for 3 years ;) anyway i'm keeping on topic so it shouldn't be considered as spam

2x 1gb is overkill unless you use PS a lot

Grand Master

stezo2k

Posted
Posted
^2x 1gb is overkill unless you use PS a lot

or video editing/rendering... editing 5hrs of footage uses a lot of memory :pinch:

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well you get the idea ;)

but for an average desktop user, 2GB wouldn't be adequate and it would bump up the price quite a bit, I can't see 2GB setups being popular until DDR2 is the new standard

Grand Master

Cyrilix

Posted
Posted
I agree, there is already DDR3 memory in that GFX card.

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The GDDR3 in your graphics card does not work with your system memory. They're completely separate. You would need something like Hypermemory or Turbocache to do that.

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