Tesseract Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I have been sitting here wondering how a democratic vote would go about the ruling of the pledge of allegiance ruling. First, I want you to vote in the poll. Secondly, I want you to reply saying whether or not you expect the supreme court to overturn the ruling or not. I know about the plege of allegiance thread in the real world issues forum, but there is not a poll for it and that is why i created this thread. Please don't start flaming each other, people. Treat this as a true, democratic vote. Thank you for your responses. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazydesert Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 it will be overturned. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 The supreme court will overturn it because the majority of this country rely on preservation of liberty. Athiests may say that it encroaches on their liberties but they have the liberty of not saying it. I think its time for these Athiest parents to better parent their children and tell them not to say it if they don't want to. If the teacher forces the athiest child to do so; then the Athiest parent may sue the school district. But it disturbs me when they try to tear down our country and taking their argument to the federal appeals court. Enough said. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbarcus81 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Well how do I put this, I strongly dissagree with the ruling. The ruling is un-constitutional! The Pledge Of Allegiance is not a pledge to God, it's to our Flag. I have been saying it since I was 5 years old, I don't practice religion, don't hold against me... And I have no problem with saying "One Nation, Under God," because it's for our Flag, not God or religion that we are pledging. This country has become so liberal it scares me, seriously! I hate to say it, but who has benefitted from the Sept. 11 attack? George W. Bush! He got his money for Armed Forces, tax cuts for the rich, CIA and FBI ignored prior warnings, coincidence? I doubt! Sorry, fealt like venting, wasn't done...LoL! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aem4162 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I HOPE the Supreme Court doesn't overturn the ruling. anita, wanting to keep church and state separate Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazydesert Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by aem4162 I HOPE the Supreme Court doesn't overturn the ruling. anita, wanting to keep church and state separate well then.. good bye to in god we trust on all our money.. so help you god.. god-speed Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted June 29, 2002 Author Share Posted June 29, 2002 btw i think the supreme court will overturn the ruling. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by aem4162 I HOPE the Supreme Court doesn't overturn the ruling. anita, wanting to keep church and state separate If you want that; then we have to get rid of anything that references god in the government. Let me see. We have to change our currency, change the witness oaths, change the swearing in of the President oath, scrap the declaration of independence, change the preamble of the constitution, etc..... BTW, I am not flaming you but providing some examples on if we were to go full swing in enforcing the separation of church and state. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRob Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 can someone inform me one whats taking place here? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraytonAK Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I generally agree with the court. Although rather than saying that the Pledge shouldn't be recited, they could remove the "under god" reference that was added in 1954. If a country is to be welcoming of all walks of life, it should, in itself, be neutral in order to welcome those. Like Anita said, keeping the Government and the Religion completely separated is a wise thing. I do find it strange that in my 12 years of public school education (in two states) I was never taught what the Pledge meant. It was never a case for discussion in any class whereby the class could disect the whole Pledge so that the students would have a perfectly clear idea of what they were saying when they take the Pledge. I'm sure there are thousands of students that simply do it because they're told to, or asked to follow along, without realizing what it means or knowing that it's optional. Granted references to god and whatnot are made in other places throughout or country's government, they are not referenced in a way that asks people to recite it and uphold it. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I disagree with the ruling because I feel that this is a frivolous case that is wasting taxpayer monies. I fully expect the ruling to be overturned and the pledge to be left as it currently is. That said, I would just as soon that the higher courts left the ruling stand and the these two words were removed. Their removal does not, in the least, change the meaning of the pledge. Their inclusion does not, in the least, change the meaning of the pledge. However, in this regard, since it doesn't change the meaning, and these words apparently DO upset certain individual's then there is no reason to keep them. We will not be changing what the pledge stands for, but we will apparently make some people feel that they are not left out because they do not believe in God. It would allow all to be able to say the pledge without feeling guilty that they are somehow violating their religious belief to state it. As far as any other changes, then we have a whole other discussion. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbarcus81 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Borg77 If you want that; then we have to get rid of anything that references god in the government. Let me see. We have to change our currency, change the witness oaths, change the swearing in of the President oath, scrap the declaration of independence, change the preamble of the constitution, etc..... BTW, I am not flaming you but providing some examples on if we were to go full swing in enforcing the separation of church and state. I Strongly agree with you... Everything will have to be changed, and I don't see that hepening just to please some liberal! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadzombie Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I'd really like to see the Government tell us what to say and think. Democracy is a stupid idea because most people are idiots. Dictatorships are the wave of the future, with hi-tech military police enforcing the law of the land. One man, thinking for everyone else, giving religion from above. Telling us what to think and believe. So much more peaceful. So much less disagreement. Don't YOU need someone strong to guide you? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
3nd3r Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by deadzombie I'd really like to see the Government tell us what to say and think. Democracy is a stupid idea because most people are idiots. Dictatorships are the wave of the future, with hi-tech military police enforcing the law of the land. One man, thinking for everyone else, giving religion from above. Telling us what to think and believe. So much more peaceful. So much less disagreement. Don't YOU need someone strong to guide you? I hate to say it but you are right. I am a firm believer in democracy but unfortunatly it will never work. the reason I say that is because of the general population. 80% of the population are complete morons. You need to have someone to lead the people. Someone that wont become corupt because of the power. Someone that used to be a every day person. "not grown up in power" someone that actually has intelligence "unlike most people" the problem is that the people in power are afraid of what a fiew people might say and well they are old idiots. they dont do anything for the common person. anywho ill shut up now.. Bleh Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kionee Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 How is this unconstitutional? The words 'Under God' which is whats causing this furor were not even in the original pledge, they were added in 1954, why...because of the 'Communist' threat. I have no problems with the above words, even though I am not a religous person at all. I believe in this country as an American. This is all being taken way out of context in my opinion. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova_00 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I dont practice religion and i dont care that it has under god in it, and i still say the pledge. In my school they are bitches, i was walking down the hall while they were saying it and i got in trouble just like they make us be quiet when they say something like, please take a moment to reflect upon the upcoming activities of the day and then like a 30 second pause. oh btw they called it "Moment of silence" It like they try to make us pray during that time and i got in trouble for talking during that too because like they said i was disrupting the class...btw i live in georgia Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted June 29, 2002 Author Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by supernova_00 I dont practice religion and i dont care that it has one god in it, and i still say the pledge. In my school they are bitches, i was walking down the hall while they were saying it and i got in trouble just like they make us be quiet when they say something like, please take a moment to reflect upon the upcoming activities of the day and then like a 30 second pause. oh btw they called it "Moment of silence" It like they try to make us pray during that time and i got in trouble for talking during that too because like they said i was disrupting the class...btw i live in georgia someone got a paddling at a school in alabama for not saying the pledge of allegiance. that went to far as that invades the freedom of speech, a lawsuit in the fed appeals court is underway. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova_00 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 damn i wish they would have paddled me, there was have been some serious suing going on Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Fidel might be getting old but damn if he doesnt touch a certain soft spot in my heart...c'mon Fidel lead us in this moment of crisis! I really don't see why we include a line which includes reference to Lord Odin in it...seems kinda sideline to me...i really Pray to Thor myself...but hey...what can you do! ONE NATION UNDER THOR! Let's get it passed and incorporated! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonBlur Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I 100% garuntee you it will be overturned as soon as possible. Not doubt in my mind whatsoever. So anyone that AGREES with the decision, sorry, this won't last long. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockz Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I don't agree with it. Even though it says under god, it doesn't have to be a spiritiual religious term. It can mean anything. It could mean the god of pizza or even no god. It's just there for a general term. In my state, our motto was/is "With God All Things are Possible", it got questioned... taken away by the supreme court, and now it is back for the same reason I stated above. (Supreme Court Reversed it decsion or something like that) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Someday...I too will have an avatar...one that emodies the true nature of Evil...c'mon zombie...let's get to work! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonBlur Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Religion has nothing to do with the church. Church has to do withe the RELIGION. Sorry guys, just because there is a reference to God in anyting at all does not mean that it is connected to any kind of church whatsoever. And oh yeah, it doesn't say the CHRISTIAN God, or any other God. It just says God. It has no specific connection to even being religious, other than we all know God (or something worshipped exactly as A god)is a religious figure in EVERY culture, ever. Just my two cents :) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 All HAIL THOR GOD OF LIGHTNING AND THUNDER! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshalus Veteran Posted June 29, 2002 Veteran Share Posted June 29, 2002 This is the problem with being so P.C. The majority has to bow down to the minority because someone got their feelings hurt. The problem with America is that we don't get out and vote enough. We are a republic, not a TRUE democracy. We choose people to make desisions for us, and quite frankly, either they aren't listning to us, or we're not telling them what we want. Sometimes its a mix of both. Oh well, someday when I'm a Senator, I'm going to accually try and listen to the people I'm serving. Until then, I'll keep e-mailing my reps making sure they know how I feel ... even if they arn't paying any attention. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/34822-do-you-agree-w-the-pledge-of-allegiance-ruling/#findComment-339308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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