the Truth about Deviant Art's history

[Plastique]

Spyed did write a response..

http://spyed.deviantart.com/journal/

586320705[/snapback]

all he did was try to make himself look more important than he really was. Using the wayback machine it is easy to see that jark and matt were the first two who were there.

Now I am now devart/jark fanboy, but I've read everything I can about this since it seems to be such a big deal (and i wanna get some prints before it goes under if I can manage to find the bucks) and it honestly seems that Jark got screwed with his pants on.

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21139764/

also, from http://www.t52.org/

Subject: The truth about deviantART. From a friend

Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 01:12:43 -0500

From: Engelbert Humperdink

Reply-To: Engelbert Humperdink

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

The new administration at deviantART has been given more than enough

time to respond to the current situation in a responsible and truthful

manner, and have proven that they would rather obfuscate the issue

than address it.

It is with this in mind that I pass along to you the following email,

which has been in my possession for quite some time. I have been

holding on to it in the hopes that Angelo Sotira would do the right

thing by our community - his journal entry of 31 July, 2005 has

convinced me that he has no such plans.

You are one of only four people who have been chosen to receive this

correspondence. I have always believed you to be a person of high

moral character, and I pass this along to you not in the interest of

causing more chaos, but rather of taking Angelo to task, publicly, for

the political wrangling and self-serving revisionism that has allowed

him to wrest control of deviantART away from Scott Jarkoff and Matthew

Stephens, in whose hands the control of this site truly does belong.

In the interest of promoting truth and knowledge above ignorance and

deceit, I send this to you now. I rest assured in the belief that you

will do with it what you feel is right.

I can offer you no guarantees save one - this email is legitimate. It

has not been edited in any way. This is but one piece of a much

larger paper trail that can be followed directly to one and only one

conclusion - Angelo Sotira is more interested in making deviantART

into his personal cashcow than he ever has been in the community whose

money he is so willing to take.

Sincerely,

A Friend

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----

From: Scott Jarkoff [mailto:scott@deviantart.com]

Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 4:44 AM

To: Andrew McCann

Cc: Angelo Sotira

Subject: Re: Response to "Serious Business Matters"

Importance: High

Andrew,

Thank you for taking the time to read and ultimately respond to my email

entitled, "Serious Business Matters." I take these issues quite

seriously so I appreciate your reply.

What I do find frustrating is your use of this whole "Board of

Directors" bit. Let's be serious here for a moment, shall we?

The board consists of two people: you, and Angelo. And yet here you

are, addressing me in a manner that would be consistent with that of a

large corporate entity. I understand the wish for formality, but let's

be realistic. You and I both know that any decision the "board" makes

is simply a decision of Angelo's that you've been dragged along on.

Statements like, "since your emails have raised concerns about the

activities of Angelo in his role as CEO, the board of directors has

decided that I, and not Angelo, should respond," you may think you're

coming across as caring and open, but you're not. Your response seems

automated and canned.

Can we cut the semantics and be a little more open and intimate with

this discussion? After all, it is partially these unnecessary

formalities that Angelo has brought to the culture of deviantART, Inc.

that has made it such a horrible place for people to work. You might

think otherwise, but the cold truth is you're not in the dark like all

but a select few on staff are.

You state:

"* You appear to raise concerns about the composition of the board of

Directors. As you know, in the early stages of the deviantART's

existence, as a boot-strapped start-up we did not follow the necessary

corporate formalities and appropriately document corporate activities.

When we later got around to documenting corporate matters, we

established a board of directors consisting of Angelo and I, which I

thought you agreed to. If you do not like the composition of the board,

you are within your rights as a stockholder to request that deviantART

hold an annual meeting where the stockholders can elect new directors."

Unfortunately, here you are incorrect. We did, in fact, follow the

proper corporate formalities in the early days of deviantART. However,

Angelo decided after a *private* attorney consultation, that it would

better suit deviantART, Inc. if the company were restructured. Did he

consult you before doing this? He ultimately passed this information on

to me via phone call, but I later learned he had left some of the most

important facts out of the conversation.

The documents I provided explain this story in lucid detail. I

previously suggested that you read through them but I can only assume

based on your statements that you either failed to understand the

previously provided documentation, or you simply ignored them.

During a phone call between you and I in November of 2004, surrounding

the beginning of the "Performance Improvement Plan," I *explicitly* told

you that I was dissatisfied with the composition of the Board of

Directors. During that conversation I explained how I, as a shareholder

in deviantART, was never informed of the vote to add an additional board

member. You merely brushed aside my concerns by stating that my votes

would never have mattered due to the mathematics surrounding the

corporate structure. Mathematics aside, the fact remains that all

shareholders should have been notified of the desire for additional

board members. Why was I was left in the dark?

For the record, I have no problem with *your* placement on the board.

What I do take issue with is the way in which Angelo handled your

addition to the Board. Rather than do things ethically, by holding an

annual stockholders meeting for the sole purpose of placing a vote on

new Board members, he underhandedly went behind everyone's back and got

you added to the Board. At no time was I ever informed of such moves.

Do you consider that type of unethical and conniving behavior something

you want to be party to?

Ultimately, my issue here is not with the election of new Directors. It

is with the way in which it was handled.

From the inception of the company through September 2004 I served as

President of deviantART, Inc. Literally, one day I was just no longer

holding that position. Meanwhile, Angelo has somehow managed to make

himself both the CEO and the President. He claims both titles on all

legal company documentation; even though I was explicitly told

differently. Angelo constantly referred to me as the President of the

company in phone calls between the two of us; as well as with previous

deviantART, Inc. personnel. My e-mail signature prior to September 2004

was testament to this.

At what point was my presidency taken away, and for what reason? Why

was I denied a formal process? Why was I not notified *at the time*?

*How do you explain this sudden modification to the corporate structure

with no notification to the other involved parties?*

Out of all the issues I have, perhaps the most troubling is my issue

with share percentages between Angelo, you, and me.

In the original corporate documents, which list you, Ian, Angelo and

myself as stockholders, I have a 45% stake in deviantART, Inc. At the

time that Angelo had the founder agreements drafted, my "piece of the

pie" suddenly dropped to 35%. Unfortunately, at the time I was not able

to locate the original corporate documents to compare the numbers though

during a phone call in July of 2004 Angelo assured me that I had

*always* had a 35% stake in deviantART, Inc., and that nothing had changed.

How do you explain this dishonesty by Angelo, stating that my percentage

had always been 35%, when I have legal documentation proving otherwise?

You state:

"* You also appear to raise concerns about selecting Angelo as CEO.

When we began to document corporate matters in a more formal and

complete manner, we determined that Angelo was effectively operating as

the CEO already. We worked with you to find a role and title

appropriate for you given that you were working remotely and on a

part-time basis. Again, this is something that we have discussed and

that you have been aware of for quite a while, and that frankly I

thought was acceptable to you when you signed off on the founders

agreements and related formation documents."

During deviantART, Inc.'s initial stages of development it made sense to

have Angelo as the CEO. However, while site traffic has continued to

rise during his time at the helm, the site itself has remained stagnant;

with many important projects left uncompleted. Many of these projects

were at some point openly promised to the community, yet never delivered.

Angelo consistently places more emphasis on his own agenda than

furthering the site. I ask you to take an *honest* and *impartial* look

at the state that the site is in today. We have not completed groups or

collections, even though they have been in development for almost 2

years. Angelo claims that some of this is due to lack of funding.

Angelo has a number of Personal Assistants, as does Spot. *Why are we

continuing to hire people when we (according to Angelo) can't afford to

do what we've already promised the community*? We continue to waste

money in areas that are not important to the growth of deviantART, and

it shows in the site itself.

Angelo has consistently misappropriated deviantART funds, and continues

to do so. I believe that is the reason that he has withheld the

financial documentation that I have asked for since November 2004. His

young age has begun to shine through, and it shows that he is incapable

of properly running this company and getting it to the point that it

needs in order to truly be considered a "success."

Another issue is that even though I have been labeled as working on a

part-time basis, my involvement on the site is obviously anything but.

During a conversation between you, Angelo and myself in August 2004, I

expressed extreme dissatisfaction with my vesting schedule and part-time

status. My signature on the founder's agreement was based on a promise

between you, Angelo and myself that if I were to work full-time hours

then the agreement would be amended as such.

Since this was implemented I have been documenting the hours that I have

worked for deviantART, Inc. in order to accurately reflect the workload

that I have supported. I expect proper compensation for the added hours

worked.

Furthermore, my attorney has been instructed to contact deviantART, Inc.

in order to obtain the financial documents that I am legally entitled to.

You state:

"* You indicate a number of times that you have concerns about the

number of staff leaving deviantART. We are trying to establish a

positive and professional vision for deviantART that the employees of

the company believe in and support, which we hope will help the company

retain existing staff and attract new staff. But the reality is that

some people will not agree with or believe in that vision, and they will

leave the company, as has happened in some cases. While we're always

seeking ways to minimize turnover, we don't feel that the level of

attrition is a chronic problem."

It is unfortunate that you do not see that it is a chronic problem.

Considering how aware of Kevin's situation you were, I would be

surprised to find that you are aware of anything happening directly in

front of you. You can not deny that your remote location has proved

disastrous to your department; yet you continue to pull full-time pay

along with full-time status and a full-time vesting schedule.

My status, however many hours I work on the site, remains consistent at

part-time. *Why*?

You state:

"* Let me know if you have any additional concerns beyond those listed

above and, assuming you continue to have concerns on the above points,

how you would like to proceed in trying to amicably resolve your

concerns. If you want to discuss matters by phone further, let's

arrange a time to do so."

What I really find interesting are the various articles that are written

about deviantART that no one knows about beforehand except Angelo. In

every single press appearance, print, video or otherwise, that Angelo

has appeared in, not *once* has he ever given the impression that

deviantART was anything other than *HIS* concept, *HIS* creation, and

*HIS* labor of love. Do you have any idea how insulting that is to

those of us who actually did the work?

Now that I have outlined my concerns let me address resolution. The

following is a list of conditions that must be met no later than July

31, 2005 if Angelo is to avoid legal action:

1. The absolute first thing I want reconciled is a public statement

regarding the *real* history of deviantART. Angelo must post it

publicly as a Hot Topic that he was not, in fact, the "mastermind" of

deviantART. He must also apologize for misleading the community and the

media by claiming deviantART was his idea. After all, one of the major

catalysts to this relationship going sour is his constant riding of

coattails and taking all the credit for the hard work of others.

2. The full, complete and unedited corporate financials that I have been

asking for since November 2004 must be provided to me.

3. The structure of the company must be realigned to that of the

original setup. Angelo gets a 25% stake, you and Ian each have 15% and I

have my full 45%. Original company documentation that I provided

clearly outlines this structure, and it needs to be returned to that.

4. I must be reinstated in my position as President of deviantART, Inc.

and also be placed on the company Board of Directors.

5. There must be a modification to the existing founder's agreements to

reflect my status as a full-time employee and to depict my vested stock

as such since August 16, 2004 when the agreement was executed.

Furthermore, I expect back-pay dating to August 2004 for the extra hours

worked.

7. Angelo will no longer have sole control. While he may hold the

*title* of CEO his activities are to be restricted. *All* decisions

which affect the direction of the company *and* the website are to be

appointed to the Board as a whole. Furthermore, he may not have control

over the finances in the company. Responsibility for all financial

decisions will be appointed to the Board as a whole.

If these conditions are not met by July 31, 2005 then my attorney will

proceed on the course that we have charted.

In the event that you would like to discuss these conditions, or

anything else in this email, then feel free to contact me in order to

setup a time for us to have a private conversation.

Best Regards,

-- Scott Jarkoff Co-Founder/Director of Community Development

deviantART, Inc. http://www.deviantart.com/

[bucko]

As long as my artwork doesn't go down the drain then I'm not bothered, time to backup just incase thought ^_^. Adblock helps to get rid of adverts to and the DA ff google search plugin works great. It's also nice when members pay you to subscribe (someone subscribed me as a birthday present ^_^ for two months ^_^) but it's not really worth the money if you subscribe. You don't really know were it ends up, I'd prefer if the cash made the servers better. Somtimes submissions take ages to appear in your gallery (yes I do empty my cache).

[AcdShdw]

i say f them they screwed many artists over theyw ent downhill when that stupid thing they implemented , onyl thing i remember about it was some automated copyright thing that would remove your artwork if somone thought it was a rip,copy or mod of someone elses they would just delete it without telling u or a prior notice, that ****ed me off, so f them

[sanctified Veteran]

i say f them they screwed many artists over theyw ent downhill when that stupid thing they implemented ,  onyl thing i remember about it was some automated copyright thing that would remove your artwork if somone thought it was a rip,copy or mod of someone elses they would just delete it without telling u or a prior notice, that ****ed me off, so f them

586320764[/snapback]

what? :huh:

[Prosidius]

Whats going on here? Whats the background? I am really confused.

[Plastique]

Whats going on here?  Whats the background?  I am really confused.

586320782[/snapback]

Ok, quick rundown (not 100% accurate, but it is the jist of things)

Years ago jark and matteo think "hey, lets make an art site" and make deviantart. They are kinda broke, people help with money, some peopel leave, normal starting business stuff. About a year into it spyed comes along and joins up and helps with money and stuff. Jark holds 45% of the company, the rest is split between matteo and spyder and some others.

:jump to nov 2004:

jark realizes he, for some reason, has lost 10% of his hold in the company and wants it back.

:jump to now:

jark fired for apparently no reason. Spyed claims it was done by "board of directors" (which is spyed and some other guy) and now everyone is angry. Everyone loevd jark, he started devart, and now spyed fires him for no reason and then tries to make himself look like he started and made devart (the journal entry posted above by someone).

Mass exodous by devart staff and volenteers.

--------

thats pretty much it as far as I can understand.

[Frank]

This is why I will never go into a full "partnership" with anyone. Greed sucks.

[Bearded Kirklander]

The drama of these public territory marking matches just gets old after a while, don't you think?

That said, people just like to have control. It's about ego and avarice, underhanded dealings and private agendas. And frankly, for them to play it out in public like this seems pretty embarrassing. Why do people feel the need to air their dirty laundry in public?

Many of us have had to deal with this type of stuff as we have grown, from one side or the other. It's part of the maturation process I guess, and hopefully most of us have learned from these experiences and are able to reflect on them and realize how immature and petty we and others might have been.

For me, it's kind of sad to sit here and watch these patterns repeat themselves. Seems like it's just a fact of human nature and frankly, it's disappointing. Can't people be fair, play nice and learn to share? Same old Kindergarten lessons rearing their ugly head in adulthood.

Oh man. :(

[AcdShdw]

what?  :huh:

586320774[/snapback]

i duno its hard to explain it was some feature they had put on about 2 years ago (least thats when i think it was ,havent been on dev for a while) it would remove and suspected copyrighted artwork without telling the artist beforehand

[soypowered]

I love it when he says, "We don't keep secrets" then says "?jark no longer being on staff is due to a completely separate matter, which, as I'm sorry to say, we're not able to go into the details about."

Edit: Wait, never mind, he already fixed that by saying "this aspect" ignore this posting...

[AgEnTsMiTh]

This has been a sad and interesting drama to see unfold and I am happy that jark is fighting back. At least the community has learned a little more of what the heck is going on.

[Crimson Behelit]

The drama of these public territory marking matches just gets old after a while, don't you think?

That said, people just like to have control.  It's about ego and avarice, underhanded dealings and private agendas.  And frankly, for them to play it out in public like this seems pretty embarrassing.  Why do people feel the need to air their dirty laundry in public?

Many of us have had to deal with this type of stuff as we have grown, from one side or the other.  It's part of the maturation process I guess, and hopefully most of us have learned from these experiences and are able to reflect on them and realize how immature and petty we and others might have been.

For me, it's kind of sad to sit here and watch these patterns repeat themselves.  Seems like it's just a fact of human nature and frankly, it's disappointing.  Can't people be fair, play nice and learn to share?  Same old Kindergarten lessons rearing their ugly head in adulthood. 

Oh man.  :(

586320860[/snapback]

(Y)

Well said.

[JiveMasterT]

Whats going on here?  Whats the background?  I am really confused.

586320782[/snapback]

Basically, in the beginning, Jark was the president of DA. They went through a period of financial trouble and even today they claim to still have trouble paying the bills. spyed sought the advice of an attorney and he basically said they needed to make some changes to the board. Then basically, Jark was silently removed from that position do to "corporate reorganization" but he continued to work for DA at full time hours but was not being compensated for such. After he brought up a number of issues to the now self appointed CEO - spyed and not being treated seriously, he made threats to bring about legal action and then was terminated.

[505]

Some more information can be found at www.t52.org. Now, there is only the e-mail which can also be read in the first post, but Google contains an older version of the page with some very interesting information. These includes screenshots of (private) messages between the deviant employees.

[VLR]

Some more information can be found at www.t52.org. Now, there is only the e-mail which can also be read in the first post, but Google contains an older version of the page with some very interesting information. These includes screenshots of (private) messages between the deviant employees.

586321031[/snapback]

Using FF! :no:

[kylejn]

Wow. This Jark guy sounds like the man, and this Angelo guy sounds like a complete dick. I guess that explains why deviantArt is so friggen crappy now. I hate browsing the site.

[Kerm]

Off topic: Having just submitted my first 'deviation' can someone pm who doesn't mind answering a few questions i have about the process (don't want to clog this thread up), thanks.

[antsy]

WTF they closed my DA thread.

[b mitchell]

I feel sorry for jark.

Still, I feel like this just makes sense along the lines of why I left DA in the first place.

[gaekwad2]

That's probably due to your obvious lack of intelligence.

586321032[/snapback]

Probably.

But hey, you look smart! Maybe you can explain what he said. (Y)

[xpgeek]

I wouldn't mind seeing DeviantArt dissapear either.

The only thing I have on deviantart now is one single journal entry, that says,

"Why my gallery is empty:

I used to have some work of mine here, then most of it got deleted, unfairly, so I deleted all of it.

My pride and joy peice of mine showed my scars of self injury, and showed it very tastefuly. Then one day some anal deviantArt mod decided to delete it and quote some obscure rule that they don't allow pictures of self injury.

This would have been fine, rules being rules, but self injury pictures on deviantArt are everywhere, and almost all much, much more graphic then mine, and they don't get deleted."

I've had some friends of mine get their work deleted without warning for similar bullcrap reasons too. So I could really care less what happens to DeviantArt.

[John S. Veteran]

Show your support for jark this Sunday on dA's 5th anniversary!

[Toxicfume Veteran]

Spyed did write a response..

http://spyed.deviantart.com/journal/

586320705[/snapback]

Sounds like a load of bullocks to me.

That's probably due to your obvious lack of intelligence.

586321032[/snapback]

Maybe it's your lack of interpretation skills that makes you think so.

[antsy]

How did Angelo Get in charge anyway?

Edited August 3, 2005 by antsy

[John S. Veteran]

How did Angelo Get inchare anyway?

586321184[/snapback]

As I understand it he had the funds to help bankroll bandwidth and servers early on (but not from the start) when popularity exploded, then when other business ventures he was involved in failed he started to take actual interest and put himself on staff.