MS comes down on Kol and his Vista visual style

[Von_Beard]

........................... :huh: what stupid m$

[gazebee_]

after reading the entire thread, I'm still not sure which side I'm on. True, KoL made beautiful and amazing work, but M$ sure 'owns' the design on the first place. But on the other hand, he made the theme in the first place because people were excited and they liked the theme; of course, this has died down..

[Miran]

Microsoft has the right to protect its intellectual property rights. If someone rips off a COPYRIGHTED visual style then they should rightfully pay the price. Violation of copyright is illegal under U.S. law. Respect intellectual property rights and you wouldn't have to worry about this.

I applaud Microsoft for being more pro-active in the war on intellectual property theft. If you undermine the foundations of copyright law in this day and age, you undermine capitalism.

How wonderful, it must be, to live in a black and white world.

[Captain Caveman]

I agree that they have to defend their intellectual property and you can see that I don't have any problem with that, I removed all the skin from all the sites that I uploaded. But I don't think that is the case here. I've been working with this skin since July and after 5 month they decided to contacted me about it. If they really wanted to protect their intellectual property they should have contacted me before and they should have contacted all other authors and sites that are making and distributing the skins. They only took my skin down because of its popularity. The skin was one of the most downlowded skin ever on Wincustomize and devianART. My skin was not the only Vista based skin out there. There are a lot more and there will be a lot more.

Not defending ms here at all but maybe other skinners haven't responded yet?

The Vista hype thing so far for the average joe has been based on its look and since its almost do-able on XP I can see where they are coming from.

I'd be honored to be honest.. seems they consider you a threat ;)

Your skin is out in the wild.. and will always be.. I wonder how many people have downloaded it because of this..

[Vibes1963]

There are plenty of skins out there with the word vista in the name which are imitations of vista so it will be interesting to see if they are all removed or only Kol's VistaXP. You can go to deviantart and still find vista skins. Only time will tell i suppose, so those of you wanting vista skins you might be advised to get them while you still can.

[spyglass]

Dear Microsoft:

As a long time shareholder i can't believe your doing this.Kol popular theme's add value to your operating system.How many people have upgraded from 98/2000 just so they can use the theme's Kol produces?...How many people stick with xp and don't go to linux or apple just because they like the look of there desktops using Kols theme's? Do you have any idea how big the themeing community is? Do you people relize how valuable and popular Kol is? Why would you want to **** off one of the last true supported groups you have in the computing world? Do you want to drive these people over to help design KDE or Gnome? Or perhaps you want to drive the themeing community to the ever growing ipod generation and there love of the many theme's that the mac community has.Whatever your copyright issues are,forget them! Don't you get that buzz is a big part of todays generation? Don't you see how this is going to create very negative buzz? A vista theme,and certainly one as good as Kols ,only helps to get the word out about the new upcoming os. Comeon Mr gates or Mr ballmer,please reconsider this unthought out move. It's not to late to make amends and also to make this shareholder reconsider his not selling his shares!!!

[c242]

I wonder what the people crying for suing Stardock (for what reason ?) would say, if the same would be done with TGTSoft, the company that stole an idea of a hack violating the Windows EULA and made a quick, dirty and ugly program arround it and even sells that crap. Together with the possibility to download themes from a spyware contaminated site. But these are facts likely ignored... Stardock is evil ? Bah...

[martin10018]

It's not to late to make amends and also to make this shareholder reconsider his not selling his shares!!!

I wouldn't sell my shares if I were you...

Maybe the trouble arose when KoL renamed it to VistaXP? I think this and the popularity made Microsoft act that way. Shortly after the renaming WinCustomize had to remove it for the first time.

I bet it would be still there it was called Arrow or something like that... :yes:

[game_over]

i didnt read the whole topic but... if i created something amazing, then someone copied it i'd be f**ked right off, even if i made a visual style and someone copied it i'd feel the same. i'm not saying i dont agree with the visual styles, i'm using vistaxp on my laptop but if your gunna use someone elses work, you gotta be prepared for this sorta stuff.

[Dick Montage]

well if i went and copied kols skins or any other skins without permission i'd expect them to be ****ed off, why should anyone be able to copy skins off other people.

I couldn't agree more. Look, Kol (talented and respected as he is) had deliberately set out to mimic an MS style. He did this with such flair and did it so well that it attracted the attention of one of the worlds largest companies. They noticed that basically he has released a copy of one of their features for their new OS...

If I came on here, ripped of his theme, and then changed a few small things, how would it be received? Would you all support me or would you flame me?

Also, Microsoft has a legal obligation to protect it's intellectual properties. This includes the content of their styles. If they fail to do this, it is neglegence. It sets a precedence, and copyright law becomes an even greyer area. It's not nice, but it's how the law works.

With that in mind, I do adore Kol's work - it's amazing and he did it too well!

[MGS4-SS]

Balls?! A huge corporation saying "please stop what you are doing" to one young guy. How is that "having the balls"?!

Thats what I say.

At least I don't use Window$ nor anything from Micro$oft.

And to the people who say "Good luck not using Microsoft products.", there's still Apple, Linux, etc.

[ScottKin]

Yes, they are going to be seriously damaged by you and your boycott. I don't know how they'll manage. Vista will probably never even see the light of day.

Yeah, right. :rolleyes: You're delusional.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Microsoft isn't going to miss your business.

How this: those of us who support his boycott of Microsoft send him some money to help.

I thing 1 cent would cover it.

A penny for your thoughts, Boz - ooops, do you have enough to make any change for that?

:woot:

Boz, come back when you can even come half-way to what I've done in my career. Your supposed influence beyond your own family doesn't count. :sleep:

...and yes, I *do* use one of Kol's skins!

--ScottKin

[MackDiesel2010]

At least I don't use Window$ nor anything from Micro$oft.

It look$, from your avatar, that you use Micro$oft'$ xbox and play Halo 2.

[shifts]

For all those thinking that it wont make a difference. Come on have some respect!!! At least one person is making a stand and if more of us thought the same way then perhaps, just perhaps the consumer would have a voice again instead of being fed products like sheep.

Not that I agree with piracy but there are other products out there that can do what ms does and normally better (see the neowin freeware thread for a start)

If it doesnt make a difference then why do people cry and whinge about increasing gas prices, dont like it then go for LPG or something or even better if you are going to complain then hey, heres something unique, why not come up with an alternative.

A look may infringe copyright and windows is trademarked, so does that mean that every tv advert that mentions windows (as in panes of glass) has to pay to microsoft? Is there another reason on the crackdown that if people can get the same theme on exisiting software and hardware without the invevitable upgrades that are often due with a new OS, why bother to upgrade. Look at windows me as a shining example, looked better than 98 but ran like crap, then 98 was skinned and it looked the same. Most of the talk about vista is Aero.

For me transparancies are nice and look good but for me praticality is the most important thing. Get the number of clicks down in an app whilst doing something is a need not just a paint of gloss. I'm on the connect beta for vista and have been evaluating it and so reserve judgement until it comes out in a fuller beta form.

[KoL Veteran]

It's possible they just don't know about those skins. They probably didn't take it down because of it's popularity, it just got brought to their attention because of it's popularity. E-Mail MS about those other skins, 10 bucks says the request those dropped too.

Yep that's what I meant. I dont think they would notice it if the skin wasnt that popular.

Well in that case... Are you sure it was actually from MS and not someone messing with you?

Yep Im sure. I got the e-mail and a letter on my mail from the people that represent Microsoft in intellectual property matters.

[Jase]

well this is bad news.. but hey you dont need peoples ideas, i like your original work your very unique.. dont let this little problem get in your way, keep doing what you do best.

[lol911]

And the whole of this thread comes from people who are using a site/forum that is supporting Microsoft. How hypocritical can you get folks?

[ZZOOzzoo]

I hope this will motivate KoL to create more original visual styles; I personally think his best works are the ones he designed by himself. Kuantum and Sustenance are two of my favorite themes ever although I use Mac now. (I'm eagerly waiting for the OSX version of Kuantum... if he's working on it)

[rodkelly]

Kol, this was a great skin, but I'm glad to see you move onto something else. The comments above about MS needing to enforce IP rights are correct. If companies can't show a history of enforcing IP then they can't maintain the copyright. In the case of a skin, I'm pretty sure two things are causing them to take notice, #1 is the name "Vista" (thats probably why Stardock/MikeB called theirs "Arrow"), #2 is the MS logo in the start button. The popularity of the skin is probably also not helping.

[KoL Veteran]

Kol, this was a great skin, but I'm glad to see you move onto something else. The comments above about MS needing to enforce IP rights are correct. If companies can't show a history of enforcing IP then they can't maintain the copyright. In the case of a skin, I'm pretty sure two things are causing them to take notice, #1 is the name "Vista" (thats probably why Stardock/MikeB called theirs "Arrow"), #2 is the MS logo in the start button. The popularity of the skin is probably also not helping.

Yep I think the name was a factor too, maybe I should have used another name. Im not sure about the windows logo in the start button. Maybe the whole round start button but not the windows logo. There are hundreds of skins using the windows flag and that was never a problem.

[Lindkvist]

I think it has something to do with the Vista look getting weared out...or that's what i'm guessing they're worried about.

But maybe it would've been an idea to tighten the beta process and leakage of pictures and builds then.

[Aaron Veteran]

FAIR USE UNDER UNITED STATES LAW

The legal concept of "copyright" was first ratified by Britain's Statute of Anne of 1709. As room was not made for the unauthorized reproduction of copyrighted content within this newly formulated statutory right, the courts gradually created a doctrine of "fair abridgement", which later became "fair use", that recognized the utility of such actions. The doctrine only existed in the U.S. as common law until it was incorporated into the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. ? 107, excerpted here:

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes.

Making a theme is hardly "criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research" so I think that proves he should not have been copying the style.

Dear Microsoft:

As a long time shareholder i can't believe your doing this.Kol popular theme's add value to your operating system.How many people have upgraded from 98/2000 just so they can use the theme's Kol produces?..How many people stick with xp and don't go to linux or apple just because they like the look of there desktops using Kols theme's?> Do you have any idea how big the themeing community is? Do you people relize how valuable and popular Kol is? Why would you want to **** off one of the last true supported groups you have in the computing world? Do you want to drive these people over to help design KDE or Gnome? Or perhaps you want to drive the themeing community to the ever growing ipod generation and there love of the many theme's that the mac community has.Whatever your copyright issues are,forget them! Don't you get that buzz is a big part of todays generation? Don't you see how this is going to create very negative buzz? A vista theme,and certainly one as good as Kols ,only helps to get the word out about the new upcoming os. Comeon Mr gates or Mr ballmer,please reconsider this unthought out move. It's not to late to make amends and also to make this shareholder reconsider his not selling his shares!!!

I can not beleive for one single second that a person continued to use windows over switching to linux or a mac simply because of a third party theme.

I wonder if I took an original theme, one that did not mimic an existing OS default, and pixel by pixel recreated the theme myself. Would you all have issue with that?

[MGS4-SS]

It look$, from your avatar, that you use Micro$oft'$ xbox and play Halo 2.

No, I haven't played Halo on the Xbox.

[TheDogsBed]

Do you people relize how valuable and popular Kol is?

Far be it from me to garnish that point with a delicate hint of reality, but the answer to both would be, at my guess, no. Tell me you weren't seriously believing that Microsoft have a shrine to Kol in the restroom or something, were you?

[Alex Suraci]

I've got loads of respect for KoL but I think I'm going to be siding with Microsoft on this one. It's no different than the skinning community - wouldn't you be ****ed if you're paying people to make this design specifically to be a "new thing" that's not even publicly available yet, and it gets ported to the PC? Although he made the graphics completely from scratch, it doesn't matter, because esentially it's a clone of the Vista GUI.

Nothin' against ya KoL, you did a great job with it, but I believe Microsoft had every right to do this..