What's so great about Mozilla?

[parrots]

Originally posted by [saint dark]

Im going to investigate that, but still Im going to change my question

IE can display a xhtml page, correctly ?

No, and as I posted earlier, here is proof:

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/comp...iral/demo2.html

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/comp...ral/glassy.html

Load the pages in mozilla and IE. For the first link, notice the difference in the left menu backgrounds when you scroll. In the second, notice the difference in the main body background when you scroll. These are no "tricks" but CSS commands set by the W3C as standards.

[AgEnTsMiTh]

Originally posted by parrots

The only reason IE doesn't do the same is because it uses explorer components. If mozilla did this it would be just as fast, if not faster. And it doesn't do this because it doesn't want to, but because MS won't let other people do this to make sure that is it always going to win. "Our browser is faster. Yeah, half of it is loaded at startup (exploere components), and we won't tell (or let) other browsers do this, but hey, we are still faster!!!" It's not mozilla's fault this is how MS does things, and therefore the faster slower arguement is irrelivant until someone tries to load both without compoents preloaded. AgentSmith said how to do this a few pages back.

Yes I am not sure what page its on but I posted how to do it. And if you want to question how i say to do so, then google it and find out I am right. And do not use VB any half twit who knows anything about VB knows you dont use that to benchmark this and get correct data. dont think im correct, google it and find out im right.

[parrots]

Originally posted by [saint dark]

Im going to investigate that, but still Im going to change my question

I don't remember if it is tables, divs, p, spans, or what, but I know there is a border inaccuracy with one tag (or more). Just saying that now so I don't get flamed later about saying the wrong tag has a problem with borders. ;)

[Prasanth]

Originally posted by parrots

The only reason IE doesn't do the same is because it uses explorer components. If mozilla did this it would be just as fast, if not faster. And it doesn't do this because it doesn't want to, but because MS won't let other people do this to make sure that is it always going to win. "Our browser is faster. Yeah, half of it is loaded at startup (exploere components), and we won't tell (or let) other browsers do this, but hey, we are still faster!!!" It's not mozilla's fault this is how MS does things, and therefore the faster slower arguement is irrelivant until someone tries to load both without compoents preloaded. AgentSmith said how to do this a few pages back.

The user dont have to care about how IE and mozilla work. IE is faster so he would use IE.

[VaxoP]

Originally posted by AgEnTsMiTh

Yes I am not sure what page its on but I posted how to do it. And if you want to question how i say to do so, then google it and find out I am right. And do not use VB any half twit who knows anything about VB knows you dont use that to benchmark this and get correct data. dont think im correct, google it and find out im right.

wtf are u talking about? did you even see my source code for what i used?

[AgEnTsMiTh]

Originally posted by prasanth

The user dont have to care about how IE and mozilla work. IE is faster so he would use IE.

That is AGAIN an inacurate statement. LOL.

Have Mozilla 1.0 or the latest beta release preload into mem just as IE does and Moz 9 out of 10 times is faster LOL.

If I were the only one saying this I would understand that stance, but when you have a flood of users stating the exact same thing I am stating I cant be wrong now can I.

[parrots]

Originally posted by prasanth

The user dont have to care about how IE and mozilla work. IE is faster so he would use IE.

Fine if that's what you want, but we frankly don't care. From a TECHNICAL standpoint (again the whole point of this post) Mozilla is just as good as the IE application when given a equal testing ground. Just because Windows loads half of IE on boot doesn't mean IE is better. Just load Mozilla on boot then and you will notice that they are almost identical in startup speed.

[KeR]

why can't this thread die?

[parrots]

Originally posted by DaKiLLa

why can't this thread die?

Because this thread states the reasons that Mozilla is better...and as long as there is a competition to MS, MS groupies will always defend MS to the grave...no matter how ignorant they are. I guess the Matrix was right..."Ignorance is bliss."

[AgEnTsMiTh]

This whole thread is like having an argument with a child trying to teach them something you understand and know due to the facts you have researched to no end, and them telling you how wrong you are because they know everything then rambling off incorrect statements trying to support there stance when a flood of people tell this child the same exact same thing your telling them.

I am not calling anyone a child per say, but a child yes when it comes to the understanding of the facts and how much there is to be learned about this subject and on top of that saying to hack them spouting off put downs etc. Grow up learn how to debate with respect.

[parrots]

I need to get sleep, I hope when I come back we have moved away from the "IE is better because MS preloads it in RAM, and that makes the IE Application better" and the "screw the standards" defence. IE is not better because it is preloaded on boot. Once again, if quickstart in enabled, THEY ARE THE SAME SPEED FOR EVERYONE BUT ONE PERSON(you know who you are). Remember, your viewpoint on if the standards are right or wrong are irrelivent...they are there, defined by a body of IT PROFESSIONALS that have been in charge of the standards on the internet since it was not longer ArpNet (if you don't know about that, than leave this thread now). Mozilla follows them, IE doesn't. I don't care if you want to follow them or not, Mozilla does, and that makes it, from a technical - not marketing, standpoint better. Goodnight all.

[sanctified Veteran]

he-man can beat superman, who whant to argue with me? :D

Superman is faster, yes, but he-man is stronger and had a big sword

[parrots]

Originally posted by [saint dark]he-man can beat superman, who whant to argue with me? :D

Superman is faster, yes, but he-man is stronger and had a big sword

/me had to reply before bed

Yes, but superman can pick him off from the air with his laser eyes. The sword doesn't do much good when your opponent is a couple hundred feet in the air above you ;)

[sanctified Veteran]

Originally posted by parrots

/me had to reply before bed

Yes, but superman can pick him off from the air with his laser eyes. The sword doesn't do much good when your opponent is a couple hundred feet in the air above you ;)

Im going to slain you because you dont have my same opinions, IN THE NAME OF GREYSKULL!!!!!!!

[Guest deadzombie]

This is an awesome thread!

He-man could use his sword to smack th eye lasers back at Superman, but then Superman could just spin really fast until he made a tornado to suck He-mans Batlle Cat away leaving He-man left to walk to wherever he had to go...

Oh, Mozilla rules. (:evil: ) All you evil dead slaves of Billy Gates keep talking your trash...in the end only the Mozilla users will fly away, while IE users will be left walking...:s

I think I've actually lost my mind now...:p

[twist]

Originally posted by BroChaos

IE is not more than perfect. it was their stupid deviations from the standards, in a dirty attempt to get more people to use their browser, that started this whole incompatibility thing in the first place.

actually netscape was the first, they introduced the leet blink tag...

[Prasanth]

Originally posted by deadzombie

This is an awesome thread!

He-man could use his sword to smack th eye lasers back at Superman, but then Superman could just spin really fast until he made a tornado to suck He-mans Batlle Cat away leaving He-man left to walk to wherever he had to go...

Oh, Mozilla rules. (:evil: ) All you evil dead slaves of Billy Gates keep talking your trash...in the end only the Mozilla users will fly away, while IE users will be left walking...:s

I think I've actually lost my mind now...:p

:rolleyes:

[sinatosk]

Originally posted by VaxoP

im back ladies!!

so far , i got like 20 posts saying idiot crap like i work for microsoft, and only 2 were able to argue with my statement (above) and both are incorrect.

One guy says "its impossible to close explorer.exe and load internet explorer!!" For you: hit ctrl alt delete. follow me so far? locate the list for "explorer.exe" - this may take a while but youll find it. click end process and then - theres only 2 buttons - one of them is ok. click that. follow me? now, click File> Run, and run iexplore.exe. VOILA!

AgEnTsMiTh came up with some "proof" that mozilla used less ram then ie. he then sent me a screenshot. i wnot post it, because it will make him look like an idiot. he had selected EXPLORER.EXE on the screenshot thinking that was iexplore.exe. conveniently, iexplore.exe's mem usage was out of the screenshot. I however proved above with 2 screenshots that mozilla clearly uses more ram than ie, as well as more cpu. agentsmith also says "Visual Basic is a bloated enviornment and your calling things that are ALL ready loaded into memory". Ooh.. hes right there! But it proves NOTHING. I loaded ie in visual basic, and i loaded mozilla (gecko) in the app and tested. hands down, ie loaded the page faster. both programs were already loaded in memory agentsmith, if anything igave mozilla an advantage because of the HUGE amount of time it takes to load.

There is very simply, NO REASON to use mozilla except if youre a microsoft hater. here, carefully laid out are all the arguements people have.

1) IE loads faster because it is tied with explorer.exe, which is loaded at startup.

Wrong! close explorer.exe and you can still open iexplore.exe (in under a second). restart your computer if u like, close down explorer.exe before it even loads to "allow iexplorer to get launched in memory" and you can still oepn internet explorer in under a second. Even if it is (which it isnt) loaded at startup (again which it isnt) then why argue that ie loads faster because its tied with the os? who cares????? it still loads faster!! you cant run either program without the os, so since the os is already there, why even say something like "ie only loads faster cause its tied with explorer.exe" - its not like u can "stop the os" or something. it all matters on which loads faster - teh winnar is ie

2) Mozilla loads pages faster

Wrong! Look at the tests - did 10 of them for each browser. all 20 tsets were taken when cache was cleared, to prevent any headstarts, and only the pure capabilities of each browser could be seen. Time for Mozilla: 4.206 seconds avg. Time for IE: 3.671 seconds.

3) Mozilla uses less ram

Wrong! look at the 2 screenshots. proof is right there. 3 pages weer loaded, neowin, download.com and google. screenshots were taking when download.com was in focus in the browser. http://members.shaw.ca/d2store/moz1.JPG and http://members.shaw.ca/d2store/moz2.JPG

4) Mozilla uses less cpu

Wrong! No it doesnt, test yourself, i couldnt take the screenshots fast enough and im not going to be bothered to to prove this fact either. mozilla: 37% cpu when loading the 3 pages. ie: 17%.

5) Oh oh yea?? Mozilla loads faster!!!

Wrong! Mozilla took 11.6 seconds to load on my computer, ie 0.6

6) You have a slow a$$ computer

Wrong! I dont call amd 1.2ghz w/ 448mb ram slow

7) Ooh ooh!! I can SKIN MOZILLA!! BEAT THAT !!

IE was designed to be extremely extremely flexible for programming - there are dozens of plugins available. if you like, you can download programs that contain ie but are skinnable (like neoplanet) for free

8) Mozilla has tabbed browsing!! And it blocks popups! WEE I WIN!

Download crazy browser if u want tabbed browsing with all of ies feature + dozens mroe (still loads faster/less ram then mozilla btw). You want to stop popups? Download a free popup blocker. add antoehr 600k to memory, which is really nothing. (still total ram will be much lower then mozillas)

9) Mozilla is standards compliant. KEKEKEK I WIN!!!!111

honestly, who cares. if ie can render a page correctly and mozilla cant, its mozilla which needs to be changed, not ie

come now ladies, if you were at least argueing for a decent browser like opera id have much much less to say to you. opera kicks as$ - but ie still kicks operas as$. but opera is much muchbetter then mozilla. have you noticed something? The 2 best browsers are non open-source, while the worst is.

u really must be Bill Gates son ... or something :ermm: .... ur stupid..... as someone said b4 the explorer.exe and iexplorer.exe is TIED!, u do hav a slow computer cuz my dad has 1.2 well a 2 gig now but b4 he had a 1.2 and it only took wha...... 2 seconds?..... and as u can see below i only got an 800 Mhz and it only takes 2 seconds aswell... ur making it sound like it wasting ur life :ermm:, it does use less cpu........... am using Windows XP to run mozilla ( yes it works with other OS ) it only uses about 2% - 5% sometimes 10% - 20% when doing stuff like Flash and things :p ( WHEN in use ). sorry to say... but uhhh your r one big STUPID HUUUGE fan of Microsoft and uuh.... f**ked up machine :ermm: no offense. looks like u got more STATEMENTS! wrong, plus if u ALSO may notice like also someone said... Mozilla has alot more features than I.E., they also TIED ( don't 4get that word when it comes to microsoft stuff ;) ) it so that u can't remove I.E. like also someone says. can't remove I.E. unless u remove ur whole OS. mozilla. about 3 cliks and ur done ( like that will happen anyway :p )

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

One guy says "its impossible to close explorer.exe and load internet explorer!!" For you: hit ctrl alt delete. follow me so far? locate the list for "explorer.exe" - this may take a while but youll find it. click end process and then - theres only 2 buttons - one of them is ok. click that. follow me? now, click File> Run, and run iexplore.exe. VOILA!

Control-alt-delete again and you will notice explorer.exe is running.

In the words of Ralph Wiggum

You can't completely shut down explorer.exe and still run xp. That's umpossible!

Nimrod

[parrots]

Mozilla 1 - IE 0 ;)

[pinky]

You have to be kidding me. I wake up this morning and find the same people spewing the same FUD. WTF...well, time for more quoting and correcting. Sigh.

There is very simply, NO REASON to use mozilla except if youre a microsoft hater.

2 points for jackass statement of the day! Sure there is. I don't like popups. I don't like the insecure ActiveX implementation in IE. I like the ability to selectively block images from ad servers. I detest either OE or Outlook because they are just ungodly insecure no matter your argument "well there's more bugs in Outlook because more people use it." Man, you gave me a good laugh with that one.

1) IE loads faster because it is tied with explorer.exe, which is loaded at startup.

Wrong! close explorer.exe and you can still open iexplore.exe (in under a second). restart your computer if u like, close down explorer.exe before it even loads to "allow iexplorer to get launched in memory" and you can still oepn internet explorer in under a second. Even if it is (which it isnt) loaded at startup (again which it isnt) then why argue that ie loads faster because its tied with the os? who cares????? it still loads faster!! you cant run either program without the os, so since the os is already there, why even say something like "ie only loads faster cause its tied with explorer.exe" - its not like u can "stop the os" or something. it all matters on which loads faster - teh winnar is ie

Did you fall out of a tree and hit every branch on the way down? I'm not going to argue which loads faster but I will correct you on this. Your assertion that closing explorer.exe is proof that IE still loads faster is bunk. Hello, anyone home? Portions of IE are loaded with CRITICAL system processes on load that you CANNOT close. Explorer.exe is just part of the equation. You can start and stop explorer.exe all you want and it will have next to no effect on the load times of IE. Ugh.

2) Mozilla loads pages faster

Wrong! Look at the tests - did 10 of them for each browser. all 20 tsets were taken when cache was cleared, to prevent any headstarts, and only the pure capabilities of each browser could be seen. Time for Mozilla: 4.206 seconds avg. Time for IE: 3.671 seconds.

Oh let us all bow before your mightiness. God knows we should all believe and trust you since you've proven your worthiness. A logical person looks at this and laughs. You took such a scientific approach. I mean. OK I wrote this little script and loaded each page ten times and, oh, I cleared the cache. Come on man.

http://members.shaw.ca/d2store/moz1.JPG[/url] and http://members.shaw.ca/d2store/moz2.JPG

Once again let me worship you and your allknowingness. You gave us two screenshots where IE was using less RAM than Mozilla. I can give you 30 back showing the exact opposite. I can show you screenshots of IE using 100 megs of RAM. I can show you shots of Mozilla using 100 megs of RAM. What's your fricking point. Mem. useage is relative and dependant on a lot more factors than you're even considering. Good god, I'm getting disgusted.

4) Mozilla uses less cpu

Wrong! No it doesnt, test yourself, i couldnt take the screenshots fast enough and im not going to be bothered to to prove this fact either. mozilla: 37% cpu when loading the 3 pages. ie: 17%.

So which is it? Your question states Mozilla uses less cpu. The answer you give states what the CPU useage spikes to on loading. I mean, for christs sake, at least be consistent. Again, this all depends on what page you're loading and what it involves. And again, I can give you some sorry screenshots (like you would) showing the exact opposite of what you're saying.

5) Oh oh yea?? Mozilla loads faster!!!

Wrong! Mozilla took 11.6 seconds to load on my computer, ie 0.6

:right: I'm not even going to comment on this one. You've been laughed at enough about this

6) You have a slow a$$ computer

Wrong! I dont call amd 1.2ghz w/ 448mb ram slow

And I have a hyper-photonic 12.5Thz Pentium XXXVI with 10 TB of RAM. IE is taking 17 seconds to load. Oh, wait, I just made an ass of myself. Now I know how you must feel I guess.

7) Ooh ooh!! I can SKIN MOZILLA!! BEAT THAT !!

IE was designed to be extremely extremely flexible for programming - there are dozens of plugins available. if you like, you can download programs that contain ie but are skinnable (like neoplanet) for free

You've never been on the mozdev pages have you?

8) Mozilla has tabbed browsing!! And it blocks popups! WEE I WIN!

Download crazy browser if u want tabbed browsing with all of ies feature + dozens mroe (still loads faster/less ram then mozilla btw). You want to stop popups? Download a free popup blocker. add antoehr 600k to memory, which is really nothing. (still total ram will be much lower then mozillas)

Such proof you give. You authoritative word says RAM useage will be lower. I guess I better believe you.

9) Mozilla is standards compliant. KEKEKEK I WIN!!!!111

honestly, who cares. if ie can render a page correctly and mozilla cant, its mozilla which needs to be changed, not ie

come now ladies, if you were at least argueing for a decent browser like opera id have much much less to say to you. opera kicks as$ - but ie still kicks operas as$. but opera is much muchbetter then mozilla. have you noticed something? The 2 best browsers are non open-source, while the worst is.:right:

You've just won the bonus round for the most vomit inducing statement ever posted in this forum. If Mozilla cant render a page right Mozilla BUT IE can, Mozilla needs to be changed. :right: ...........Um, no. If the page is coded improperly, the developer needs to change it. If it's a problem with Mozilla, it'll be fixed within a week. If it's a problem with IE rendering pages it'll be fixed, well, someday.

You just state your opinion OVER and OVER and OVER, but you say so little. You just say blah MOZILLA sucks because IE is better because I did these dinky tests that really don't prove anything. Listen, if you use IE, great, if others use Mozilla, peachy. If I use Opera, hey thats cool. They're all very capable browsers. Whatever people are comfortable with is fine.

Now, lets let this thread die already. It's making me nautious.

[parrots]

/me claps and yells for joy for that major "rip-him-a-new-one". :D

Agreed, we have shown all the facts, and rebuted all the 'facts' that have been shown in favor of IE. Anyone who read this that is open will be able to see which is better. No point beating a dead horse anymore.

[Yazoo]

slightly off topic whats the best skin for Mozilla at the mo'?

[pinky]

Originally posted by Yazoo

slightly off topic whats the best skin for Mozilla at the mo'?

orbit...

[BroChaos Veteran]

i like all the orbit themes as well.

pinball, grey modern, lo-fi and simplicity are nice as well.