Paul Thurrott on OS X Leopard

[hotdog666al]

That is a decent article I guess.

He keeps on saying how the features aren't "big update" worthy.

This is a steaming pile of..

All Mac OS updates are basically packs with a bunch of updates and neat additions, pleasant changes and sometimes large "under-the-hood" updates. I'm not quite sure what Paul was expecting, but Leopard seems like a regular OS .x update.

Also, the text-to-speech vista sample which was played slurred/mis-pronounced words. It sped up randomly twice and wasn't nearly as impressive as the leopard one.

As Lylesback2 said, Apple come across as childish with the vista bashing, but It's actually quite a good move when you think about the target users.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Right.... Technology and food... all related... Good analysis!!!!

My point was your argument that marketshare is determined by being the best product. The absurdity of the McDonalds thing should have made you realize that.

Instead you fixated on the greasy food. Whatever.

[MacOSXMan]

This Thurrott guy is a moron, alot of the features in Mac OS X today came from the Copland project and NeXT OS. This guy needs to learn how to write an article and get his facts straight.

[+vlsi0n Subscriber¹]

Who cares who steals what? At the end of the day it's about who's got the best product and I'll be using both operating systems anyway. I'll wait till they're both out before I draw my conclusions.

I don't have anything against Apple or it's fans in general. I just don't like their attitude. They are professionals trying so hard not to be. I wish I could install OS X on my windows computer, because IMHO I don't want apples overpriced hardware, just their OS along side XP (or vista).

[Hurmoth]

I love this article. One of the best IMO from Paul. Although there are several points he makes that I don't agree with, I think he's right on the money with this one. :yes:

[dagamer34]

I don't think most consumers care if one company copies a feature. In reality, the feature just needs to be better than what they copied.

Oh, and about what Paul says about Spotlight; honestly, that's not even copying. Microsoft said that they would do something like it, but as of now, it's not in a consumer OS. Tiger had it in 2005. By that analogy, I could create a concept of a flying car and some company could improve on it. Would it be copying? Maybe. Would anyone really care? No, because they would be focusing on the product, not where it came from. The same applies with Space and Virtual Desktop.

Another thing is about the Volume Shadow Copy feature in Windows Server 2003. It looks similar to Time Machine, but it doesn't seem as simple to use. The GUI for "Previous Versions" in Vista is rather lacking too. And Time Machine is probably the first instance I've encountered where using the 3D features of a card actually makes a difference (Aero Glass is probably the worse use of GPU resources I've ever seen).

Anyway, ideas don't make something what it is; it's all about implementation. At the end of the day, that's what consumers care about.

[ikyouCrow]

This Thurrott guy is a moron, alot of the features in Mac OS X today came from the Copland project and NeXT OS. This guy needs to learn how to write an article and get his facts straight.

we know, we know...

you could say the same thing about Spaces (read Virtual Desktop). xp had a feature similar to this in 2002 but we all know this came from UNIX systems.

to everyone else who aren't familiar with NIX systems and their features, this would look like a copy from xp, right down to the UI.

[Allan]

Anyone uses the word 'Whatever' in a sentence in the context of slang, has to be an absolute idiot.

whatever.

I'm not a fan of any OS, but as I see OS X is by far superior to windows xp and with leopard is going to kick ass, I admitted, OS X is better than Windows.

That is a contradictory statement ... "I'm not a fan of any OS... OS X is better then Windows". Either you like bo th, or you like OSX, but you can't say you don't like either, then trump OSX as better then Windows.

And I suppose, by that logic, then McDonald's must have some of the best food, since they seem to be all over and selling a lot of burgers and fries. :whistle:

Microsoft did what McDonalds did - Saturated the market with good quality stuff (at first), then took the good quality away slowly. Their product is still GOOD just not as good as it was. The BigX at McD's was awesome. Then they reduced it's size, and I don't eat there anymore.

[Bhav]

He makes a lot of good points.

[Hurmoth]

This is, in my opinion, one of the best articles Paul has ever written. I'll admit, I don't agree with him on all points, but he makes a very strong arguement. I think those, here, that are completely dismissing the entire article need to take a second look and before you do, take off the fanboy glasses.

Microsoft hasn't been working on just Vista for the past five years, and besides that, I would hardly call all five of the Mac OS X releases major. On top of that, Steve also considered the x86-based version of Tiger a major release and it is anything but a major release. He stated back in January that they had been secretly working on the x86-based version for several years, so big whoop there Steve.

This copying thing that Apple always like to poke fun at is totally childish too. Jobs' keynote speach sucked on Monday and I'm usually a fan of Jobs, but that was an utter waist of my time. This is why I think the first, let's say, 30 minutes of the keynote all they did was make fun of Microsoft. It was simply because they had nothing better to show off, or at least nothing innovative like what they have had in past years. To make up for it, Microsoft bashing.

I think a lot people's problem with Paul is their to inclined to read his stuff with their fanboy glasses. Take them off and put on your thinking cap. If you don't believe Paul, research the issue and prove him wrong. But just stating "Thurrott is a moron" doesn't really prove anything.

Anyone uses the word 'Whatever' in a sentence in the context of slang, has to be an absolute idiot.

Whatever :rolleyes:

[cptcaveman2004]

Im pretty sure his conclusions about leopard are what most people are thinking... there MUST be more to come.. otherwise its gonna be a pretty dull release.

[Smigit]

If they are smart as they claim, they would be able to have a bigger market share, have the most selling OS ever, etc...

And I suppose, by that logic, then McDonald's must have some of the best food, since they seem to be all over and selling a lot of burgers and fries. :whistle:

Well since his comment was about Apple as a company not Mac OS as an OS then I think the Maccas comment does infact hold. Their Marketing and sales department does do a better job than elsewhere. I certainly wouldnt say that Apple is a poor performing company, indeed they are very strong but they have made some bad financial moves in the past. Considering how large they were in the late 80's and early 90's compared to today.

And yeah I do agree with the article, Apple as a company can be a bit full of their own praise while vary rarely do I see MS taking the personal jab at the opposition. Kind of the same with how certain firefox employees take the shot's at IE7 too while MS more often than not quietly works at improving their browser (and no I dont use it).

[Boiling Ice]

I've never seen Gates making fun of Apple in his presentations, actually he focus totally on what they can offer for their customers, rather than wasting people's time whining about the other competitor, how they are better than them and bla bla bla...

Apple ads and their childish acts in their keynotes are the main reasons for me not to get a Mac. I really love Mac OS and would love to be part of its community, but I don't want to join a community where it spends lots of its time whining about the other OS.

What apple should do is, focus on their work -which I believe they are doing great- and show what they can do for their customers.

[xxdesmus]

I've never seen Gates making fun of Apple in his presentations, actually he focus totally on what they can offer for their customers, rather than wasting people's time whining about the other competitor, how they are better than them and bla bla bla...

Apple ads and their childish acts in their keynotes are the main reasons for me not to get a Mac. I really love Mac OS and would love to be part of its community, but I don't want to join a community where it spends lots of its time whining about the other OS.

What apple should do is, focus on their work -which I believe they are doing great- and show what they can do for their customers.

Thank you, I really do agree with everything you just said. If nothing else, it's shows that Apple is worried/nervous/out of ideas if they resort to this pathetic distraction technique.

[ikyouCrow]

The BigX at McD's was awesome. Then they reduced it's size, and I don't eat there anymore.

yeah. i used to think the Big Mac was big... until i saw it again...

[Hurmoth]

I've never seen Gates making fun of Apple in his presentations, actually he focus totally on what they can offer for their customers, rather than wasting people's time whining about the other competitor, how they are better than them and bla bla bla...

Apple ads and their childish acts in their keynotes are the main reasons for me not to get a Mac. I really love Mac OS and would love to be part of its community, but I don't want to join a community where it spends lots of its time whining about the other OS.

What apple should do is, focus on their work -which I believe they are doing great- and show what they can do for their customers.

Could you imagine what Apple could do with Mac OS if they stopped worrying about other companies, mainly Microsoft, was doing. Or even spend the time working on Mac OS instead of coming up with new ways to bash Microsoft.

[John S. Veteran]

you must of watched apples commercials right? they seem to spotlight features both computers have, but make microsoft look very very very bad in them. to an consumer who doesn't know much about computers, apple makes itself look great in these videos. Especially the vacation commercial, where apple states it can edit, publish and view photos, and windows can only make pie charts. Apple in my opinion is childish when it comes to competition. Apple seems to through everything they can at consumers and Microsoft, yet microsoft stays very quiet when it comes to television.

And why shouldn't they? They have a corner on the market, the uninformed. When they step into their local walmart, circuit city, best buy and want a computer, many think Windows is the only choice they have.

[Boiling Ice]

Could you imagine what Apple could do with Mac OS if they stopped worrying about other companies, mainly Microsoft, was doing. Or even spend the time working on Mac OS instead of coming up with new ways to bash Microsoft.

if you think of it, if it wasn't for their lame ads and chlidish acts, I would've own a mac by now :D

[Hurmoth]

And why shouldn't they? They have a corner on the market, the uninformed. When they step into their local walmart, circuit city, best buy and want a computer, many think Windows is the only choice they have.

That may be true, but look at it this way. When you see a Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Circuit City ad, do they bash their competitors? No and why? Because it's petty, it's politics. I'm not watching an Apple commerical, I'm watching a political ad that's tell me to vote for the flunky kid that calls himself a Mac.

[shockz]

Anyone uses the word 'Whatever' in a sentence in the context of slang, has to be an absolute idiot.

:rolleyes:

[Hurmoth]

if you think of it, if it wasn't for their lame ads and chlidish acts, I would've own a mac by now :D

I own an iMac G5 and I will admit it is one of the best investments I've done. I even own Apple stock. I plan on getting a new Mac when they start using the Core 2 Duo chips. I even recommend them to friends and family.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

The end result is that Core Animation will not directly effect end users in Leopard until developers take advantage of it. Clearly, it was thrown out as a bone to the developer-heavy crowd.

Gah, this is why i try not to read this guys stuff, he's a moron.

Of course Apple showed off a new API, it's a developer conference, i would expect no less from them (or any other company).

Is he going to get upset when MS show off new API at the PDC, or a driver model at WinHEC? (hmm, thinking not)

I didn't see him getting upset when MS showed off DirectX 10 at a game developers conference (think about it, doesn't really effect the end user, some stuff just looks nicer)

[giga Veteran]

if you think of it, if it wasn't for their lame ads and chlidish acts, I would've own a mac by now :D

You're missing out. Especially if such a petty reason as that is holding you back to use OS X. :|

[MonkeyClaw Veteran]

And its technology that Apple is probably using for other features in the OS. Core Animation is a big thing and if Paul doesn't realize that then he is much more stupid than I thought.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Correction:

Paul says that Windows Desktop Search in Vista will support searching other machines and servers in SP1. That is not correct. Search other Vista machines on a network and Longhorn Servers is supported out-of-the-box.

Clearly, Apple is just implementing another Vista feature and calling it their own.

Many of us got a kick out of Steve Jobs' claim that "Microsoft innovated over Spotlight by moving it to the lower-left of the screen" or whatever. He couldn't have made a more ridiculous claim, considering that Spotlight's search box looks exactly like that Windows Desktop Search "Deskbar" that shipped 6 months before Tiger and Spotlight, except that it's in the upper-right instead of the bottom of the screen.

Just how clueless are those guys?

And then they announced support for advanced searches... just like we've had in WDS for 2 years (with Advanced Query Syntax, boolean and wildcard support, etc).

In fact, I was quite disappointed in their Spotlight showing. They didn't show tagging. They didn't show searching other data sources, remote machines (other than Leopard machines on a local network, just like Vista already does), OpenSearch, or anything like that. Disappointing. I guess if we want new features in Spotlight we have to make a bigger deal about them in Windows.

And its technology that Apple is probably using for other features in the OS. Core Animation is a big thing and if Paul doesn't realize that then he is much more stupid than I thought.

Yeah Core Animation looks great, though not as great as when it was called "Avalon."