Paul Thurrott on OS X Leopard

[I am Reid]

We are talking averages here. I read somewhere else recently as well that the average for a PC is 2-3 years.

I was going to have some long post about how wrong that was, but i dont feel like typing it all, but yeah that stat is waaaay off. I know quite a few people who are still on windows me and 98.

[C_Guy]

I think you put far too much importance in objects to "add value" to your image. :ermm:

That's not what I mean. I don't mean that a person is defined by material things. I mean that companies try to put emotions, feelings, and culture in their image and products and often it is these things that motivates a person to buy, rather than the product itself.

This is a very simple principle of marketing. What about cars? Do you think that the kind of car you drive says something about you? For example, when most people see a mini-van on the road they think "soccer mom". When they see a an SUV they think "outdoorsman". Of course, these are stereotypes that do not necessarily apply to all but when the image comes to mind, you have an opinion about it, just as companies try to link their logos and icon with emotions and feelings.

In the same way, some people feel that the kind of computer you buy says a lot about you. For some, this is true, for others it's not. But when I see the Apple logo it symbolizes a culture that I do not want to be associated with.

I bet that to you, a penguin is not just an artic animal, it's a symbol of a technology you are passioante about, yes?

[jeff_pony]

I think computer turnover would relate more to OS liscense purchases than market share. Maybe thats what he means?

[markwolfe Veteran]

I bet that to you, a penguin is not just an artic animal, it's a symbol of a technology you are passioante about, yes?

So, if I disliked flightless waterfoul, then I should not use Linux?

Sure, icons and symbols have other meanings, but they are not a factor in what is the better product for me.

[spenser.d]

Paul has lost complete faith in me.

Hahahahaha. Him typing 'whatever' IN HIS BLOG is not as bad as that typo there. He's not typing this things out of any officiality, he's typing them for people who care. If you don't care, don't read his blogs.

-Spenser

[theyarecomingforyou]

Windows has lots, yes, but take this into consideration:

The average life of a Mac is about 5-7 years.

The average life of a Windows computer is about 2-3 years.

Therefore, Windows computers are purchased more, but that doesn't mean more people are using it.

Windows computers last as long as people want them to... Win98 is still used by millions of people. However, you are right that the sales of computer do not reflect usage - that applies to both Apple and Microsoft. If you're right with that figure, though (which I seriously doubt), it just means that not only do more people buy PCs but once they have them they upgrade them more often; that's pretty damning news for Apple and their supporters. However you look at it Apple's market share is tiny but you'll never be able to truly compare the number of Windows users to OSX or Linux users to prove their exact percentage.

As for the article - I think it's very good, though his dismissal of Core Animation is unfair. Using the term "whatever" does negate from the article, it just shows he's tired of Apple's hypocracy (as are most people). Still, I do like OSX and admire the work they put into it - it puts Windows to shame in many aspects and I hope that Apple gain market share so as to offer serious competition to Microsoft.

[C_Guy]

So, if I disliked flightless waterfoul, then I should not use Linux?

Right. And I am obsessed with panes of glass that sit in walls and allow sunlight to pass through so Windows is the only operating system for me :rolleyes:

You either get it or you don't. Maybe someone else can explain it to you.

[PyX]

You can only compare market shares when the initial market share of companies is at 50%. What apple said is right, but you guys don't understand it.

Let's use examples with numbers to make you guys understand :

Example 1 :

Microsoft = 1 000 000 000 people = 50% market share

Apple = 1 000 000 000 people = 50% market share

Apple gains 16% market share and Microsoft loses 16%.

Apple = 1 000 000 000 + 160 000 000 = 1 160 000 000 people = 66% market share

Microsoft = 1 000 000 000 - 160 000 000 = 840 000 000 people = 34% market share

Example 2 :

Microsoft = 1 000 000 000 people = 98% market share

Apple = 1 000 000 people = 2% market share

Apple gains 16% market share and Microsoft loses 16%.

Apple = 116 000 000 people = 2.32% market share

Microsoft = 1 000 000 000 - 160 000 000 = 840 000 000 people = 82.82% market share

It means that Apple gains more %, which still represents less people than a gain on MS's side, but in terms of %, it means a lot for the company. Let's say you sell 1000 computers and the other year, you sell 1100. It's good, you have gained 10% in prosperity.. or something like that. Maybe the 7% gain on the PC users side means more people than on Apple's, but it's still a faster growth.

[Stunna]

How can one measure market share?

[giga Veteran]

Right. And I am obsessed with panes of glass that sit in walls and allow sunlight to pass through so Windows is the only operating system for me :rolleyes:

You either get it or you don't. Maybe someone else can explain it to you.

I love bananas.

[theyarecomingforyou]

How can one measure market share?

Short of centralised tracking systems for each and every OS to record the number of unique machines, you can't accurately - even then it would require each platform to publish their figures, which likely wouldn't happen. However, surveys, sales figures and other sources can be analysed to provide a rough figure.

[lammmetak]

It is always the same with this kind of topics. Windows users praise there so nice vista and Apple ppl can't stop saying how good it is. To know what is best you have to use both a lot. I bought a year a go a mac. Also i am studing as system operator. If you look to apple i see: a easy well designed product where making things is easy. Also if i look to how managable an os can be i also see os x as the better one. For windows i see a most used os where you can game on. Unfortunatly there so greedy/depserite to keep ppl on that platform that they make a lot of wrong coiches. For security i can be fast: mac os x is better thought, by chosing a unix like os they already made a good choise. 1 thing i like a lot about os x is the system folder: its read only. Something u can't say of the windows folder.

What i dont like about apple is the constant bashing of microsoft. Sure a lot of them is true but they should do things if they have 50 % or more.

Till then its microsoft that copies and apple that inovates.

[Shuu]

er..YAWN.

[Proforma]

So Microsoft now has a monopoly on Animation, better tell Pixar, Disney, etc. :rolleyes:

Also, Whatever happened to Avalon, I remember it was going to be some great big thing, part of WinFX (the new API, the way forward), and now, WinFX is apparently a optional component, and has been cut back a bit.

It's a shame, Longhorn was going to rock, now it's a shadow of what was promised.

Wow, see this is why I come here. So many misinformed people.

They cut back WinFS (which is WinFileStorage and it uses a SQL database to manage and query results using XML for the file and directory metadata). This became optional and now they are pushing it back.

This does NOT exist in any Operating System available today.

WinFX (Avalon) has become part of the .NET 3.0 Framework and has not been cut back at all.

WinFS was the only big feature that was dropped by the way.

The problem with Apple is that they are in 1984 and still thinking the PC can't do anything the Mac can do.

This is almost 2007 and Apple still thinks you can't do desktop publishing, multimedia, or even graphics on PC's.

You would think that Apple's marketing would evolve with the 21st century. I guess not.

The Mac is now using the same hardware that PC's and PC's with Vista can do everything that Macs can do.

[Eli]

I love bananas.

LIES!

Also, why are we all worried about who copies who?

"OH EM GEE! MAC MADE BACKUP SOFTWARE! THOSE BAST****!"

So? Good that they did it. Nice feature. Sure Windows has it. But now Mac does. :)

Without copying of features, there would only be a bunch of incomplete programs on the market released. Imagine Windows without a Start Menu. Imagine ONLY Microsoft Word. Imagine a Media Player without a playlist!

Come on guys. Who cares who copies who. As long as the program (in this case operating system) grows and gets better, I don't care. Neither should you.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Right. And I am obsessed with panes of glass that sit in walls and allow sunlight to pass through so Windows is the only operating system for me :rolleyes:

You either get it or you don't. Maybe someone else can explain it to you.

You seem to be the one with the two different opinions. Brand image is important to you in one post, and you stay away from Apple/OSX products because of image. And in other posts, you agree that it isn't important.

[Ironman273]

I love bananas.

Yeah, well, we all know who they copied...

[Proforma]

I have lost complete faith in Paul. I say this for 2 reasons.

1. He uses the word "Whatever" so many times in that article to make it sound like it was written by a 9th grader.

2. On his mainsite, he has a few links that lead to nowhere but spyware sites and some that are dead.

Well, I don't care about Paul. He is right though. Apple lies all the time.

Do you remember how Apple was saying that the PowerPC was so much faster and better than Intel and there were benchmarks that showed the opposite on many different websites and now Apple has switched to Intel.

Gosh, it just looks like they are using empty marketing just for marketing sake. No real facts behind them.

Oh no the PC can only do pie charts for graphics.

[CraigMack]

sounds like OSX is trying to bridge the gap for people in terms of 'stuff' the operating system has and what vista/xp now doesnt have. Give them time. Theyre such amazing inventors.

[Proforma]

sounds like OSX is trying to bridge the gap for people in terms of 'stuff' the operating system has and what vista/xp now doesnt have. Give them time. Theyre such amazing inventors.

I really don't see much if anything that Mac OS X Leopard has that Vista doesn't already have.

[_Pablo]

I agree that Apple needs to focus on the qualitiy of its products instead of the positions weaknesses of its competitors products.

For example, mass market car manufacturers (e.g. Ford) add features to their vehicles that the luxury car manufacturers (e.g. Mercedes Benz) have, but you can be sure that if a mass market vehicle comes out with an innovative new feature, then the luxury manufacturers will adopt it too. The entire automotive industry have all settled on a common interface (steering wheels, gear sticks, pedals etc) and a common form factor (four wheels, internal combustion engine, metal shell etc) but you can be sure that almost every one of these features and factors were at some point unique and then adopted by all. What makes the difference is quality, design, finesse and image. Mercedes clearly have a better if more expensive product but their advertising plays to their strengths of their products as opposed to the weaknesses of Ford products and Apple should take note. Just because 90% of people drive a mass market car doesn't make mass market cars better than luxury cars...just cheaper.

Edited August 12, 2006 by _Pablo

[Windam]

I personally think apple and microsoft are working together. And they are just putting on a show. They really can't live without each other.... seriously

[Ironman273]

I agree that Apple needs to focus on the qualitiy of its products instead of the positions weaknesses of its competitors products.

For example, mass market car manufacturers (e.g. Ford) add features to their vehicles that the luxury car manufacturers (e.g. Mercedes Benz) have, but you can be sure that if a mass market vehicle comes out with an innovative new feature, then the luxury manufacturers will adopt it too. The entire automotive industry have all settled on a common interface (steering wheels, gear sticks, pedals etc) and a common form factor (four wheels, internal combustion engine, metal shell etc) but you can be sure that almost every one of these features and factors were at some point unique and then adopted by all. What makes the difference is quality, design, finesse and image. Mercedes clearly have a better if more expensive product but their advertising plays to their strengths of their products as opposed to the weaknesses of Ford products and Apple should take note. Just because 90% of people drive a mass market car doesn't make mass market cars better than luxury cars...just cheaper.

Wow... what an awesome analogy. Can you imagine if Mercedes kept complaining that Ford copies their ideas at every car show? :D

[MtnDewCodeRedFreak]

*yawn* Nothing new with Apple.

I'd be more excited if Mac OS XI (11.0) is announced. If it has useful features, I'd dual boot between OS 11 and Vista, Vista R2, or Vienna.

[theyarecomingforyou]

It is always the same with this kind of topics. Windows users praise there so nice vista and Apple ppl can't stop saying how good it is.

It's always the same with these topics - lots of people make their points only to have someone comes in and label them into a vague group, for or against, then proceed to tell everyone to open their minds. It would be better to tackle specific people and points rather than group everyone together and gloss over what they have to say, rather than contibuting to the problem.

@_Pablo - Great analogy. I'm fed up of negative advertising - it's the same with politics. Promote what YOU do well and then hope that people can see what you stand for and have to offer.