grimreaper Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 hi, just wondering if the x360 gpu is like which pc vid card in terms of specs? the nvidia 7950 or the ati 1950? thnx Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG- Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 probably a lot higher than most things currently on the market... its the software that utilies the power better... the 360 SDK does kick serious ass. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588268985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menge Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 GeForce 8 series... mainly due to the Unified Shaders. it's just.... different. mainly because it runs with the OS at a much closer-to-the-hardware level and it has a nice 10MB of embedded VRAM on the GPU for free FSAA. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588268987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NienorGT Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 It's different, it's an ATi R500 chip making it the same family like the x1800 but it's totally different in lot of way, but one thing is sure, it's DirectX 9 not 10. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588268996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhMuffin Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 It's different, it's an ATi R500 chip making it the same family like the x1800 but it's totally different in lot of way, but one thing is sure, it's DirectX 9 not 10. Your right, and wrong... Its actually DirectX 9 with a few DirectX 10 libraries. Therefore its somewhat a DX9-10 hybrid. Also note that advanced updated libraries can be added and read off the DVD9 disks on games. Therefore we should see prettier games with more DX10 characteristics. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588269034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
well... Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 hmm intresting whats a ps3 gpu equivalent then? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588269037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatherLargeBear Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 hmm intresting whats a ps3 gpu equivalent then? geforce fx 5500 :p Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588269045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiWanToby Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I thought U read a xenos analysis that the x1900 series was infact more powerful than the 360 chip. I think a lot of it does have to do with the software that utilizes the chip. Developers can develop for one unified platform. It would be kinda nice if PCs could be optimized in such a way, unified hardware specs just isn't possible though. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588269052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NienorGT Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Hum... yes it's a bit more advanced than pure DX9, but I don't think it's an "hybrid" chip. The expression "Hybrid" is used for the 8800 for example, it can run DX9 and DX10 but both are incompatible. http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153097 They state "advanced version of DirectX 9" And no they can't update it. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588269065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 seems like a top of the line 7900 to me, which is more than plenty right now if ably used. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588270095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted January 29, 2007 Veteran Share Posted January 29, 2007 It's impossible to compare the Xenos chip directly to something like a Geforce 7900 since the architecture is so radically different. In some ways (unified shaders, number of shader pipelines) it is like a Geforce 8 series. In some ways (framebuffer memory bandwidth) it is FASTER than a Geforce 8 series. In other ways (texture bandwidth) it is less than an 8 series (difficult to compare since PC cards share bandwidth between the framebuffer and texture look-ups). It also has some unique features as part of the Xbox 360's overall system architecture, like MemExport and its ability to sample data directly from the CPU's cache. The PS3 GPU is a modified Geforce 6800 (with a couple updates, probably die-shrunk, and possibly some extra pipelines) with the exact same memory bandwidth as its lineage 6800 (not the GT or Ultra, mind you). It's similar to how the original Xbox's GPU was a modified Geforce 4 (with some targetted modifications). Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588270215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Now that is a good question with a very complicated answer. Maybe a more complicated question with a simpler answer would be: what kind of PC setup would I need to get at least the same graphics as the xbox 360? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588270391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysphoria Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I am going to try and find this article I saw a while ago. They were talking about the graphic capabilities of the 360 and they said that the ATI chip in it is actually hardware capable of DX10 I am not sure if it has a full capability though.... although DX10 has been done for quite a while, and has been accessible to developers. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588270417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maash Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Xbox 360 GPU power equivalent to X1900 XT PS3 GPU power equivalent to 7800 Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588270551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Here are my thoughts on "DX10" and how it relates to the xbox 360: When you start talking about DX10 you need to realize that DX10 is an API for Windows and really does not exist on the xbox 360. That being said, I'm sure that the XBox 360's APIs that come with the dev kits are very similar to DX9 and DX10 as they are all Microsoft's products. But the two are separate so all you can really do is compare the xbox 360's graphics hardware features to DX10 features. And from my understanding, XBox 360 has most of the features expected in DX10. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588270554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhMuffin Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Hum... yes it's a bit more advanced than pure DX9, but I don't think it's an "hybrid" chip. The expression "Hybrid" is used for the 8800 for example, it can run DX9 and DX10 but both are incompatible.http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153097 They state "advanced version of DirectX 9" And no they can't update it. You seem confused by my hybrid explanation. I meant to say its a directx 9 capable chip with some characteristics. Hybrid may have been the wrong term to use. As far as the PS3, if you say its a modified 6800... Then that sucks. If this is the case, I can see the 360 having a graphic leap start and progression over the ps3. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588270609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted January 29, 2007 Veteran Share Posted January 29, 2007 You seem confused by my hybrid explanation. I meant to say its a directx 9 capable chip with some characteristics. Hybrid may have been the wrong term to use.As far as the PS3, if you say its a modified 6800... Then that sucks. If this is the case, I can see the 360 having a graphic leap start and progression over the ps3. Well, it's a modified 6800 at a considerably faster clockspeed. I believe they claim that its computational power is that of two Geforce 6800 Ultras, though computational power is only one measurement - and the RSX is still bounded by the same memory bandwidth constraints (22.4GB/sec) as the Geforce 6800. There's also the Cell factor, in that SPEs can augment the GPU's performance for certain things (like vertex shaders, perhaps). So that evens things out a bit as well. In the end, each architecture has its strengths. The 360 is way better off when it comes to things like high-resolution output, anti-aliasing, and HDR output. It's GPU is very well tuned to those tasks and it was built to remove the most restrictive bottlenecks that a traditional CPU architecture would face. If the PS3 does have an advantage, it would be in vertex shader throughput (with the RSX and Cell working in parallel), and possibly in geometric complexity. Again that's no simple answer, though, as the 360 has special accomadations for things like procedural geometry and instanced models / animations (facilitating those big LoTR-ring style battles with hundreds or thousands of enemies - as seen in Kameo and other games). In the end, I think you'll find that the best PS3 games will look better than the worst 360 games. But on the whole, 360 games will always look better (multi-platform titles almost assuredly will), and the best 360 games (GoW and beyond) will look better than anything the PS3 is capable of. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588270674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReAnimation Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) Well, it's a modified 6800 at a considerably faster clockspeed. I believe they claim that its computational power is that of two Geforce 6800 Ultras, though computational power is only one measurement - and the RSX is still bounded by the same memory bandwidth constraints (22.4GB/sec) as the Geforce 6800. I'm not so sure about RSX being based on a 6800. We all saw the PowerPoint slide from one of Sony's developer conferences last year where they said that RSX is NV47 based (NV47 = G70 = Geforce 7 series). http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/2...329/3dps309.htm The whole RSX thing has been discussed many times over at beyond 3D and they seem to all agree that the RSX has the same 128 bit wide data bus to its RAM as a 7600 GS, but has the same number of pipelines as a geforce 7800/7900 series card (24 pipelines). Edited January 29, 2007 by ReAnimation Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588270750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneKnee Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Xenos = ~R600. The Xenos was way ahead of the competitino, even the Geforce 8800. The memory bandwidth it has is unbelievable. If the PS3 does have an advantage, it would be in vertex shader throughput (with the RSX and Cell working in parallel), and possibly in geometric complexity. Yeah, but only when using those things. Now if you multitask between Sound, textures, Operating System, and the incredibly limited Memory bandwidth, it makes you question "Why the **** did they use the Cell processor?". It's more for servers than for general purpose use! Very stupid Sony! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588271100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 i used to know a girl that had this amazing bandwidth...but anyhoo, shadrack and others need to remember the 360 is similar to the PC in more ways than are readily apparent. i wouldn't be surprised if you could apply DirectX in our case. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588273306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted January 30, 2007 Veteran Share Posted January 30, 2007 Yeah, but only when using those things. Now if you multitask between Sound, textures, Operating System, and the incredibly limited Memory bandwidth, it makes you question "Why the **** did they use the Cell processor?". It's more for servers than for general purpose use! Very stupid Sony! Oh I agree - the Cell is totally wrong for gaming and I think the PS3 architecture as a whole was a mistake. I was just pointing out that any fair comparison of the two GPUs needs to take into account more than just the GPU itself, since it doesn't exist in a vacuum. And the Cell's SPEs aren't totally useless... they're just more redundant since most of what they can do well can also be done on the GPU more effectively, and splitting tasks like vertex shading between the SPEs and the GPU is going to be a very complicated programming task (and probably incurs a fair bit of overhead)... so much so that I doubt anyone will ever do it. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588273902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 i used to know a girl that had this amazing bandwidth...but anyhoo, shadrack and others need to remember the 360 is similar to the PC in more ways than are readily apparent. i wouldn't be surprised if you could apply DirectX in our case. Here is another way to think about it. When you buy a "DirectX 10" graphics card, does the graphics card come with DirectX 10 implemented directly on the hardware or does it have DirectX 10 compatible features? The answer is the later one. It has DirectX 10 features. Microsoft supplies the "DirectX 10" API that has a set of understood features that should exist on a "DirectX 10" graphics card. Meanwhile, the hardware manufacturer has to supply a graphics driver for Windows that bridges the gaps between the hardware's features and the DirectX 10's API. That is why DirectX 10 is a Windows product, and it is hard to apply to devices out side of Windows even if they are made by Microsoft :p :s. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588275220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesees Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 So Sharack by your logic, why wouldnt the X360 and the Xenos GPU be any different from a normal PC and graphics card? Developers write games using the APIs supplied by Microsoft which allow features on the GPU to be fully used ATI have custom drivers which allow the GPU to be accessed by these APIs and in turn execute native calls in the GPU There is no difference therefore in the way a developer would write for Xenos as opposed to any other graphics card. However, if I have missed anything (and its possible) then please correct me so I'll understand it better Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588275243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
acies Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Interesting thread. So is the xbox 360 capable of producing graphics similar to those in DX10?? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588275262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacer Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I think we'll all find out if the 360's GPU is DirectX 10 capable when Crysis comes to the 360 :devil: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/533749-x360s-gpu-is-the-equivalent-of-which-pc-vid-card/#findComment-588275315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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