BajiRav Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) IPhone Contract Is Long and Legally Murky David Kravets 07.20.07 | 2:00 AM Apple CEO Steve Jobs proudly proclaimed the iPhone one of the most intuitive devices ever made. Not so for the iPhone's terms-of-service contract, which at 17,000 words is one of the longest and most complex ever to accompany a wireless gadget, legal experts say. No one reads such things, least of all early adopters eager to own the summer's most-lusted-after product. So Wired News has done the hard work for you. We read it not just once but several times, with the help of a few good lawyers. "I think there's no chance whatsoever that a layperson would understand it and I doubt they could get through it. I think most lawyers wouldn't understand it either," says Fred von Lohmann, a staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation who in a past career crafted licensing service agreements for a living. An Apple representative declined to answer questions or comment. The good news: The document consists mostly of boilerplate that is standard in most wireless contracts, and contains no real surprises. Its unusual length stems from the fact that the iPhone is bundled with several services, each of which has its own licensing agreement. The bad news: The iPhone contract may not be the last word in overly long and complex user agreements. Terms-of-service contracts promise to grow even more dense, legal experts warn, making them even more difficult to understand than they already are. That's a problem, because even standard contracts now contain some legally questionable provisions that you should be aware of regardless of the phone and plan you use -- for example, regarding reverse engineering and arbitration. The iPhone contract is unusual in bundling many separate agreements into a single contract. It comes in six parts, including agreements regarding AT&T's phone service, the iPhone software, the iTunes software, the use of Google Maps and of YouTube in addition to a user's consent that an e-mail from Apple "will satisfy any legal communication requirements." (Click to read the AT&T agreement, plus the other five agreements.) Phone services typically charge roaming fees for connecting outside of the plan's footprint. This can feel like a gotcha for customers who are not fully aware of how roaming works. For iPhone users, this risk is detailed in the AT&T section, where the agreement states, "Substantial charges may be incurred if phone is taken out of the (United States) even if no services are intentionally used." Roaming charges might apply to incoming calls, and will be levied against overseas iPhone users even when viewing messages in the gadget's "visual voicemail" feature, AT&T representatives said. "That is a data service, so you can be incurring data charges as well. We just want to tell people when you go outside the United States, there's additional costs involved," says Mark Siegel, an AT&T spokesman. The terms of the iPhone agreement, he adds, are largely the same as any other phone using AT&T's service. I am sure Apple fanboys will find some reason to defend this :wacko: The iPhone agreement also says Apple may monitor users' iPhones "to verify compliance with terms of this license." It notes that Apple may collect technical information regarding users' iPhones, computers, software and peripherals, as long as such information is not used in a form that personally identifies individual users. Source: Wired Edited July 20, 2007 by dhan Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurmoth Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Phone services typically charge roaming fees for connecting outside of the plan's footprint. This can feel like a gotcha for customers who are not fully aware of how roaming works. For iPhone users, this risk is detailed in the AT&T section, where the agreement states, "Substantial charges may be incurred if phone is taken out of the (United States) even if no services are intentionally used." There's a simple solution if you're going out of the US, get the international plan for $6 a month. And if you're only going out once, get it for that one month and then cancel it. That is a feature of plan and can be canceled at anytime.The iPhone agreement also says Apple may monitor users' iPhones "to verify compliance with terms of this license." It notes that Apple may collect technical information regarding users' iPhones, computers, software and peripherals, as long as such information is not used in a form that personally identifies individual users.Big deal. I don't see a problem with that, TiVo does it. People are way to paranoid IMO. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588718629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshBluebird Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 huh? Phone services typically charge roaming fees for connecting outside of the plan's footprint. This can feel like a gotcha for customers who are not fully aware of how roaming works. For iPhone users, this risk is detailed in the AT&T section, where the agreement states, "Substantial charges may be incurred if phone is taken out of the (United States) even if no services are intentionally used." thats normal for any mobile phone though, so I don't know why their picking at apple / AT&T because of that Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588718654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted July 20, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 20, 2007 huh?thats normal for any mobile phone though, so I don't know why their picking at apple / AT&T because of that Yeah my phone plan says I can't take it out of the country either with out significant charges... hint, if you are going out of the country, get a world plan! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588718679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shof Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Long contracts are a waste of paper Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588718741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
.kvn Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Paranoia reigns yet again in the search for a story. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588719242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingnecros Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 OK for all those who say I have nothing to hide - please install cameras in every room of your house and start streaming it onto a public website - just coz u have nothing to hide also especially make sure that you install cameras in bathrooms with large tubs becoz they can potentially be used to mix dangerous contraband chemicals and since you are not doing that you have nothing to hide Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588719511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
osirisX Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 iPhone Contract Contains Legalese like every other Contract in Existence. There you go, headline fixed. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588719878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Dash8 Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Can we have an iPhone subforum created here on BPN, because all these bogus iPhone "news" threads are starting to crowd out the real news. Could there be a bigger piece of overhyped garbage than the iPhone? Do we need to have minute-by-minute updates on every tiny occurrence for the iPhone? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588719893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuudJacobs.NET Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Can we have an iPhone subforum created here on BPN, because all these bogus iPhone "news" threads are starting to crowd out the real news. Could there be a bigger piece of overhyped garbage than the iPhone? Do we need to have minute-by-minute updates on every tiny occurrence for the iPhone? I agree 100% Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588720084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappy Veteran Posted July 21, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 21, 2007 Can we have an iPhone subforum created here on BPN, because all these bogus iPhone "news" threads are starting to crowd out the real news. Could there be a bigger piece of overhyped garbage than the iPhone? Do we need to have minute-by-minute updates on every tiny occurrence for the iPhone? I agree :yes: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588720260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaQuuu Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 :whistle: Its the silent majority, that, allows this situation to continue! That's the "Catch 22"! Closing their eyes while they sign, and, whistling while making their calls. Always :whistle:, there's no opening for any real knowledge to get through. therefore. we spin our wheels trying to inform the :whistle:. Kudos for those who spend their finite free time to inform the non :whistle: !!! Regards, FaQuuu Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588720573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaQuuu Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Can we have an iPhone subforum created here on BPN, because all these bogus iPhone "news" threads are starting to crowd out the real news. Could there be a bigger piece of overhyped garbage than the iPhone? Do we need to have minute-by-minute updates on every tiny occurrence for the iPhone? Yeah, overhyped garbage!!! That's 2! Spinning Wheels, FaQuuu Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588720582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Typical mis-information.... It's an AT&T contract. Not an iPhone contract. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588721136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted July 21, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 21, 2007 I am sure Apple fanboys will find some reason to defend this :wacko: Source: Wired ...The terms of the iPhone agreement, he adds, are largely the same as any other phone using AT&T's service. ... Did you mean AT&T fanboy? Anyway, it's more of the same crap, crummy contracts aren't an iPhone only thing, I was on a 2 year contract for my phone, and I was being charged 22c a KB for data. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588721177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappy Veteran Posted July 23, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 23, 2007 I am waiting to see what kind of details will be in the UK contract because I know that I will be getting of these on launch day just want to know what I am letting myself in for :unsure: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/575351-iphone-contract-is-long-and-legally-murky/#findComment-588723672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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