Paramount and Dreamworks going HD DVD exclusive

[Boz]

Well I don't want you to get dissapointed because it seems that true Blu fans can't believe what's going on. What do you think will happen to those numbers when HD DVD/DVD combos come out to replace millions of regular DVDs?

[AlphaPrime]

Wasn't the reason to go with HD-DVD to save money? Pricing them at the same price as DVDs will cost the studios much more than it would staying with Blu-ray.

[TruckWEB]

Well I don't want you to get dissapointed because it seems that true Blu fans can't believe what's going on. What do you think will happen to those numbers when HD DVD/DVD combos come out to replace millions of regular DVDs?

Boz, Boz... Even if I'm all for HD-DVD and that I don't care about Blu-Ray, you're starting to sound like a heavy PR spokeperson for the HD-DVD camp. Be carefull, this all could slap you in the face if it where to be... untrue. Or even if it's true, if HD-DVD still don't win, I know a couple of guys here who will laugh at your face....

[Julius Caro]

It's funny how before Paramount went HD-DVD, the war was practically over, even HD-DVD supporters were already saying that it wasn't looking for them, and now, all of a sudden, HD-DVD is the winner. And it's funny how everybody is spreading biased FUD that doesn't help and it's pointless.

Both formats have the same codecs and support the same things. I guess the only difference is that HD-DVD supports DD+ at higher bitrates. Anyway, this could go on and on and on, when the numbers are there.

The prices are another thing. First, both blu-ray discs and hd-dvd discs are selling at the same prices. Where are the so-called lower production costs? Are people forgetting that they ARE CONSUMERS? If I see an HD-DVD and Blu-ray disc, both priced at 25 bucks, I couldn't care less about which company profits more from my purchase! Because my pockets will suffer the same.

That said, it cannot be denied that HD-DVD are cheaper and will continue to do so.

Now, I don't see why people are going all "Paramount was paid off!!" Because, that was obvious. If they didn't get paid off, great. If they did, great! Who cares? It's not like they had an impressive amount of high-def discs out there and they made their choice after considering which sold the most and which didnt, because they sold no shiz, to be honest. If they weren't paid, they were promised something. The thing is, it's a shame that they suddenly drop support for the other format, specially when they had titles announced. If warner choses either side, it will be a shame too.

Other things that annoy me are people defending to death those hd-dvd extras, or the things that are mandatory in hd-dvd and are not for blu-ray, or those who say that all ps3 count as blu-ray players.

First, the extras thing.. it's always nice to have extras, although I never watch them. I must admit that the HD-DVD camp is better at taking advantage of the format. Better extras, using the next-gen codecs all the time.. (something that took blu-ray a while). But the extras have never been THE selling point, and blu-ray will eventually support those pip things too. Another thing is when people go "oh no! blu ray players suck because internet is not mandatory for them!, they wont be able to upgrade to newer firmwares to ensure support for the newer profiles!"

First, there are like a dozen (or less?) players for each format, so it's not like those things are affecting millions, specially considering that most are early adopters that KNOW what they bought.

Second, internet may be mandatory for HD-DVD players, but people are not obliged to have a magical ethernet cable in their living rooms either. Unless they have Wi-fi, having an ethernet port won't change thing for MOST people who have NO idea.

And lastly, some people are buying the ps3 because it's a console, and don't care about blu-ray. They probably don't have HDTVs and don't even know what HDMI is. So not all ps3s are going to be used as blu-ray players.

[Joni_78]

I have The Fiftht Element Remastered (Blu-ray) 1:1 copy ripped on my Hard Drive. It takes about 35 Gb, what is the size of the HD-DVD discs that studios use? Just wondering if it has enough size to fit a movie with best possible quality and extras.

[AlphaPrime]

Good post Julius.

So not all ps3s are going to be used as blu-ray players.

Yeah I'd say less than 1/3 are using their PS3s for Blu-ray. Of course though, without the PS3, BR probably would have been DOA, so it definitely helped.

HD-DVD has a strong week next week with Heroes, Blades of Glory, DotD and a couple of others. BR has none for the week. So I wonder how that'll pan out.

Joni - 30GB for a dual layer disc.

[Julius Caro]

HD-DVD has a strong week next week with Heroes, Blades of Glory, DotD and a couple of others. BR has none for the week. So I wonder how that'll pan out.

I wish Blu-ray had someone like Universal. They have released about 90 titles right? More than any studio in either format. I wish Buena Vista and FOX released good titles too. Between the two, they could release lost, desperate housewives, house, 24, ugly betty, grey's anatomy, prison break...

Having some of those could compensate me for not having heroes, lol.

As far as I know only prison break and lost have been announced

And if warner wants to go exclusive, it better be AFTER releasing harry potter in both formats, hehe

[Joni_78]

Another thing is when people go "oh no! blu ray players suck because internet is not mandatory for them!, they wont be able to upgrade to newer firmwares to ensure support for the newer profiles!"

WTF. I haven't followed this format war at all and this is the first time I heard about this. Seriously, do I actually need to start updating hardware now to be able to watch future releases? I have enough pain with Windows.

[Cormier6083]

It's ok, cuz we have Disney on our side. Yay Steve Jobs!

[TruckWEB]

It's ok, cuz we have Disney on our side. Yay Steve Jobs!

Don't YAY Steve Jobs too fast.... Apple was supposed to have Blu-Ray as a option for their Mac Pro this summer. And where is it?

Apple to offer Blu-Ray Mac by Febuary

Maybe Apple is not so sure right now.... And Apple = Pixar = Disney.... This could be interesting.

[L3thal Veteran]

Don't YAY Steve Jobs too fast.... Apple was supposed to have Blu-Ray as a option for their Mac Pro this summer. And where is it?

Apple to offer Blu-Ray Mac by Febuary

Maybe Apple is not so sure right now.... And Apple = Pixar = Disney.... This could be interesting.

Oh man, that all makes sense now!

Apple saying they will release it in the summer + they delay it to February = they are double guessing if they should back up Blu-Ray.

Man, that makes total sense now :rolleyes:

[bangbang023 Veteran]

Oh man, that all makes sense now!

Apple saying they will release it in the summer + they delay it to February = they are double guessing if they should back up Blu-Ray.

Man, that makes total sense now :rolleyes:

Actually, it does make some sense. Would Steve Jobs want to release a product from one company that can't use the products from another?

[Boz]

It's funny how before Paramount went HD-DVD, the war was practically over, even HD-DVD supporters were already saying that it wasn't looking for them, and now, all of a sudden, HD-DVD is the winner. And it's funny how everybody is spreading biased FUD that doesn't help and it's pointless.

Okay for the record, none of the people I know and interact with all over the web have EVER said that Blu-Ray was WINNING. That was exclusively Blu-Ray FUD and was believed by all Blu-bois out there. We all knew this was coming and were always saying this. We said, wait when players hit $199, wait when studios make calculations with production costs and so on and on. I'm not sure who you are talking about. I'm still very certain that HD DVD will win as it is in much better position.

Second, the only thing I personally admitted was that Sony PR machinery was kicking HD DVD Group's butt and that if HD DVD ever loses this war it will be because of PR not value.

The prices are another thing. First, both blu-ray discs and hd-dvd discs are selling at the same prices. Where are the so-called lower production costs? Are people forgetting that they ARE CONSUMERS? If I see an HD-DVD and Blu-ray disc, both priced at 25 bucks, I couldn't care less about which company profits more from my purchase! Because my pockets will suffer the same.

That said, it cannot be denied that HD-DVD are cheaper and will continue to do so.

Yes, and that's the whole point. With HD DVD a studio has more flexibility. Look at my posts above. DL BD50 is EXTREMELY expensive to manufacture and are only created currently at 2 factories in the whole world. So with prices that replicators themselves charge, prices are much lower for HD DVD even combos. The reason you are being charged more now is because the market for hi-def is still small. Once it goes into millions you'll be paying the same prices as you are paying DVDs and THIS is exactly where HD DVDs cheaper price comes in. With Blu-Ray a studio could NEVER make the prices to match the current DVDs because it costs an arm and a leg. At least not for a long while.

You are right, I dissaprove the pricing of current hi-def discs, however HD DVD is the only format that can bypass that problem by increasing sold discs and having them replace SD DVDs competely.

Now, I don't see why people are going all "Paramount was paid off!!" Because, that was obvious. If they didn't get paid off, great. If they did, great! Who cares? It's not like they had an impressive amount of high-def discs out there and they made their choice after considering which sold the most and which didnt, because they sold no shiz, to be honest. If they weren't paid, they were promised something. The thing is, it's a shame that they suddenly drop support for the other format, specially when they had titles announced. If warner choses either side, it will be a shame too.

No it won't, because it will finally put an end to this ridiculous war. The payoff story is ridiculous. Of course they gained some money from HD DVD group which is standard business deal. They were reimbursed with marketing expenses, probably stimulated to publish more titles etc etc. $150 million number is number that came out of Blu-Ray camp the day Paramount announced their exclusivity. This is pure FUD and nothing else. I'm sorry but I will believe someone like Paramount's CTO or Microsoft's Corporate Vice President of Consumer Media Technology Group when they directly state that the deal is indefinite and that there $150 million did not come from Microsoft both of which FUD stories are circuling around.

For people to believe this, they trust "unnamed sources" and insiders that have to hide their identities. I mean come on. Let's be real here. We know very well that it's damage control by Sony and nothing else and whoever believes this is really ignorant. And I'm sorry New York Times is already known about publishing BS stories with unproven and blog supported facts. Alan Bell, Paramount CTO btw, was VERY clear why they chose to be exclusive. It's simple as that.

Other things that annoy me are people defending to death those hd-dvd extras, or the things that are mandatory in hd-dvd and are not for blu-ray, or those who say that all ps3 count as blu-ray players.

First, the extras thing.. it's always nice to have extras, although I never watch them. I must admit that the HD-DVD camp is better at taking advantage of the format. Better extras, using the next-gen codecs all the time.. (something that took blu-ray a while). But the extras have never been THE selling point, and blu-ray will eventually support those pip things too. Another thing is when people go "oh no! blu ray players suck because internet is not mandatory for them!, they wont be able to upgrade to newer firmwares to ensure support for the newer profiles!"

First, there are like a dozen (or less?) players for each format, so it's not like those things are affecting millions, specially considering that most are early adopters that KNOW what they bought.

Second, internet may be mandatory for HD-DVD players, but people are not obliged to have a magical ethernet cable in their living rooms either. Unless they have Wi-fi, having an ethernet port won't change thing for MOST people who have NO idea.

Well let me just point out why HD DVD has an upper hand here. It's not just having features like PiP. That's something that is cool and all but is something that I will rarely use, BUT, let me give you a scenario. You take out your 4 year old HD DVD and put it in your HD DVD player. Instead of seeing 4 year old trailers, movie information etc, you get to see latest trailers and get to see movie times at your local theater, coming soon releases to HD DVD etc etc. This is just one of the things that is revolutionary and is actually merging web/party media center capabilities and promotion into one. The interactive features ARE very much important because they give a user the next step in DVD evolution. Better picture, higher interactivity.

Experts agree, HD DVD/Blu-Ray are not REVOLUTIONARY, like DVD was to VHS, and this is EXACTLY why in addition to higher quality the future next gen format needs to have a hook, it needs to have expanded functionality for a consumer regardless whether or not they will use it. Something that Blu-Ray won't be able to provide until late next year in the same way HD DVD already does.

Btw, I would suggest you read this very informative article from the Economist.

http://www.economist.com/daily/columns/tec...00&fsrc=nwl

Edited August 26, 2007 by Boz

[L3thal Veteran]

Why wouldn't they? If anything, they delayed it because the cost of adding it in would make the average joe notice how overpriced Apple products are. Or...they realized that releasing it now will have no benefit to their sales due to the "newness" of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD so they will wait until the price of Blu-Ray drive decreases by 50% so they can overpriced it by 50% and come out making profit.

I guess we'll never know.

[rajputwarrior]

Well let me just point out why HD DVD has an upper hand here. It's not just having features like PiP. That's something that is cool and all but is something that I will rarely use, BUT, let me give you a scenario. You take out your 4 year old HD DVD and put it in your HD DVD player. Instead of seeing 4 year old trailers, movie information etc, you get to see latest trailers and get to see movie times at your local theater, coming soon releases to HD DVD etc etc. This is just one of the things that is revolutionary and is actually merging web/party media center capabilities and promotion into one. The interactive features ARE very much important because they give a user the next step in DVD evolution. Better picture, higher interactivity.

Experts agree, HD DVD/Blu-Ray are not REVOLUTIONARY, like DVD was to VHS, and this is EXACTLY why in addition to higher quality the future next gen format needs to have a hook, it needs to have expanded functionality for a consumer regardless whether or not they will use it. Something that Blu-Ray won't be able to provide until late next year in the same way HD DVD already does.

Btw, I would suggest you read this very informative article from the Economist.

http://www.economist.com/daily/columns/tec...00&fsrc=nwl

thank you, i said that earlier in a post. People will disregard this feature but it's huge and really cool for the consumer to see. Blu ray has nothing like this. All it is is an DVD rendered in HD, while HD DVD is something completely new with all the interactivity. I didn't even realize this until a couple of weeks ago when i played with the fifth element blu ray on blu ray. I have owned a HD DVD drive for a couple of months now and my ignorant self figured it was same for both formats. Why HD DVD hasn't promoted this more is beyond me.

[Boz]

Actually, it does make some sense. Would Steve Jobs want to release a product from one company that can't use the products from another?

Just a small piece of information that you might not know.

We asked Microsoft's Amir (the vice president for consumer media technology) about several things about Java and he revealed a very intersting piece of information as he was sitting in the DVD forum meetings. Read on:

Question: Why should we trust Microsoft and HDi over BDA's BD-J?

Amir: Because their counterpart, DVD Forum, made up of very same companies, trusted us and adopted HDi. Companies in BDA board who voted in favor of HDi, in DVD Forum, and against Java, were Apple, Samsung and Thomson. Some 19 companies voted for HDi, and only two for Java. Only two! Please challenge Talk on what went wrong there, if BD-J is the best thing in the world.

[PixilEyes]

A little off topic but are any of the HD-DVD players backwards compatble with standard DVD players?

I have a 200 disc DVD collection and will be over 300 by the end of the year. I could really care less about the higher res for the same title. Will I be screwed?

The DVD's on my insginia 26" 720P from a HDMI 1080i upscaling dvd player look great. I'm using an HDMI cable. I don't want to have my collection go to waste.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

All HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players upconvert regular DVD's.

[BGM]

A little off topic but are any of the HD-DVD players backwards compatble with standard DVD players?

yeah, all of them

watch a HD movie in comparison to your DVD and you wont think its so great anymore... just ok :)

[Boz]

yeah, all of them

watch a HD movie in comparison to your DVD and you wont think its so great anymore... just ok :)

Yep, here's an example of upscaled DVD to 1080p and HD version of it in 720p

For people who are not informed about hi-def, I've written an analogy with cars so people understand how HD DVD compares to BD

Let's say you have 2 cars. Let's say they are both Hondas (Honda HDDVD and Honda BD).

They are pretty much same models, they look exactly the same from outside, but Honda BD has a slightly stronger engine, thus allowing you to go 200 mph instead of 150 mph that Honda HDDVD allows you.

Now the restriction on freeways and street is 65 mph, so in order to experience the drive having either does the job just fine without any difference and it is highly unlikely that you will NEED to go faster because the "traffic" is already organized and flows smoothly at 65mph. So performance wise, those 2 Hondas act and drive the same for anyone sitting with you in the car. Actually, some people who were driving with you told you a few times that windows on Honda HD DVD actually looked much cleaner and that they could see outside much clearer than on Honda BD.

But wait, there are really huge problems with Honda BD.

The dealership never told you that when you were buying Honda BD that after a couple of months ALL of your accessories like the CD player, car's stereo system in general, that in-dash LCD, the shiny dashbord with all cool buttons and stuff like that, will STOP WORKING. Of course, you'll still be able to drive the car, but none of these "features" will be available to you.

On the other hand Honda HDDVD has all of these Honda BD features implemented, they work indefinitely for each and every unit sold and not only that but you also have super cool GPS/sattelite and that cool rear-parking camera and more advanced computer voice that guides you through your car's functionality.

But wait, it's not over. They also didn't tell you that, you can't actually DRIVE your Honda anywhere else but the United States, you can't even pick up parts anywhere from around the world like Honda HDDVD can, not to mention that Honda HDDVDs sattelite (read internet) connectivity works on every model of that car, allowing you communicate and connect with other drivers of Honda HDDVDs, unfortunately this feature will never be utilized fully on Honda BD because not all Honda BDs have it, or at least not until Honda BD 2.0 model comes out, when your Honda BD becomes completely obsolete.

Not only that, but with Honda BD it takes you much longer to unlock the car every time you want to drive it as it has some crazy alarm system that blocks everything for a little bit and when it's fully running it will allow you to get into the car and drive.

Oh did I mention that after all this, the dealership actually asks 1.5-2 times higher price for Honda BD than for Honda HDDVD? You also MUST use only US fuel for Honda BD, other import fuels won't work.

The only limitation that Honda HD DVD has is that you can find about 15% less gas stations supporting Honda HD DVD with fuel. But there have been new IMPORT gas station in some of those missing spots that offer Honda BD gas that works on your Honda HD DVD just fine.

So if we position HD DVD and Blu-Ray as these 2 Hondas. Which one of them would you buy? Just look at it that way, because what I described above is EXACTLY what the situation with HD DVD and Blu-Ray is right now.

If you still find value in Blu-Ray, go ahead and feel free to get it, but I just can't see why a person who wants to get quality and pay less would EVER buy Blu-Ray, unless you really want to game with PS3 so you get Blu as add-on.

[PixilEyes]

Ok, I'm extremely happy now. I thought my DVD's were doomed.

Thanks all for the info.

[Julius Caro]

While I do agree that blu-ray is behind in certain features (this being the damn interactivity), let's not forget that the PS3 is perfectly capable of having that functionality one day. All sony needs to do is issue a new firmware that updates the blu-ray profile. They could have millions of BD players updated with the newest profiles, overnight.

I really am hoping that sony does an update like this. I suppose it's planned, the question is WHEN?

Sadly, there's one studio that seems to LOVE all the drm crap, and that's FOX. All of their releases have region coding, and they're even holding out because they want even more encryption. So if it were for them, we would be using something even more restrictive. But it's interesting to see that some movies are being released with no region coding AT ALL. And not just "some movies". There are lists out there and in amazon most titles says whether they are region A or "all regions". This definitely didn't happen with DVD.

[Julius Caro]

Okay for the record, none of the people I know and interact with all over the web have EVER said that Blu-Ray was WINNING. That was exclusively Blu-Ray FUD and was believed by all Blu-bois out there. We all knew this was coming and were always saying this. We said, wait when players hit $199, wait when studios make calculations with production costs and so on and on. I'm not sure who you are talking about. I'm still very certain that HD DVD will win as it is in much better position.

I'm not saying that they were saying that blu-ray was the winner, but more like "was winning". More movies being sold, more studio support and all that crap.

Second, the only thing I personally admitted was that Sony PR machinery was kicking HD DVD Group's butt and that if HD DVD ever loses this war it will be because of PR not value.

Yes, and that's the whole point. With HD DVD a studio has more flexibility. Look at my posts above. DL BD50 is EXTREMELY expensive to manufacture and are only created currently at 2 factories in the whole world. So with prices that replicators themselves charge, prices are much lower for HD DVD even combos. The reason you are being charged more now is because the market for hi-def is still small. Once it goes into millions you'll be paying the same prices as you are paying DVDs and THIS is exactly where HD DVDs cheaper price comes in. With Blu-Ray a studio could NEVER make the prices to match the current DVDs because it costs an arm and a leg. At least not for a long while.

But you are proving my point. If blu-rays are super-?ber-expensive and hd-dvd discs are cheap to produce, this means that the hd-dvd is charging more when they could cheaper. Again, if I see the same prices, as a consumer I dont give a F who earns more money. The hidef market is still small for both formats, so if hd-dvds are at that price for that reason, why don't the prices mirror the difference it production costs?

You are right, I dissaprove the pricing of current hi-def discs, however HD DVD is the only format that can bypass that problem by increasing sold discs and having them replace SD DVDs competely.

At this prices, that's unlikely. But people can't hope that the newer dvds (BD/HD) are going to replace the current dvd. HDTVs in the us are in around 30% of the households or something like that, right? While SD-TVs are in.. 100% of those houses that have tvs. That 30% doesn't justify replacing SD-DVDs. And the "30%" figure is even less in Europe.

No it won't, because it will finally put an end to this ridiculous war. The payoff story is ridiculous. Of course they gained some money from HD DVD group which is standard business deal. Tey were reimbursed with marketing expenses, probably stimulated to publish more titles etc etc.> $150 million number is number that came out of Blu-Ray camp the day Paramount announced their exclusivity. This is pure FUD and nothing else. I'm sorry but I will believe someone like Paramount's CTO or Microsoft's Corporate Vice President of Consumer Media Technology Group when they directly state that the deal is indefinite and that there $150 million did not come from Microsoft both of which FUD stories are circuling around.

Well, they were "promised" something. It was a business day so it's not like they had an epiphany one day and saw the ultimate truth.

For people to believe this, they trust "unnamed sources" and insiders that have to hide their identities. I mean come on. Let's be real here. We know very well that it's damage control by Sony and nothing else and whoever believes this is really ignorant. And I'm sorry New York Times is already known about publishing BS stories with unproven and blog supported facts. Alan Bell, Paramount CTO btw, was VERY clear why they chose to be exclusive. It's simple as that.

It was the NY times, and the whole "unnamed sources" in journalism is something that is still being put to practice. So it is okay to completely disregard a professional newspaper and questioning their sources (which, by the way, it's okay:pp), but it's not okay to question those so-called insiders that post in forums without any proof of their identities, nor the source of their information? I dont know who said in what forum that warner was going hd-dvd exclusive and all of sudden that was the ultimate truth.

Of course, everybody has the right to question all the information, but let's be serious.

Do I believe that paramount was paid-off 150M? I don't, I think it was like you said. Anyway, if they had been paid, I wouldn't have been a problem for me either, after all they have a business.

Well let me just point out why HD DVD has an upper hand here. It's not just having features like PiP. hat's something that is cool and all but is something that I will rarely use>, BUT, let me give you a scenario. You take out your 4 year old HD DVD and put it in your HD DVD player. Instead of seeing 4 year old trailers, movie information etc, you get to see latest trailers and get to see movie times at your local theater, coming soon releases to HD DVD etc etc. This is just one of the things that is revolutionary and is actually merging web/party media center capabilities and promotion into one. The interactive features ARE very much important because they give a user the next step in DVD evolution. Better picture, higher interactivity.

Finally something rational regarding the whole PiP issue. If I had hd-dvd and wanted to trash blu-ray all over the internet, I definitely wouldn't use the PiP to do it, lol.

In that scenario you are portraying, it is great to have up-to-date trailers, it is. And is actually a very good selling point, but for the players, not for the movies. You don't need every single movie to have the same feature, they could get away with that by including in the player.

It's okay that internet is there. It should also be mandatory in the BD specs. But it can never be the biggest selling point, as you can't make the consumer experience be dependent on whether they have internet or not, or if they have a cable long enough to connect their players to a router, or know how to do the wifi thing (the wifi thing is easy:pp).

Also, thousands of titles are going to be released. If all of them have some sort of online capabilities, that means that the information is going to be stored in some servers. I don't think that the information will be available forever. If I buy in 2007 a disc of a concert, and the online thing of the disc has tour dates and so on, and the publisher of the disc stopped updating the info in mid-2008, then there's no point. I mean, it will be good for the few months after the release, but not indefinitely.

That's why the trailers thing is a good idea. But my PS3 already does that, so I'm "covered". Those who bought other bd players may not be, but one's got to be smart. If you know that the bd specs are finished, buy something that can be updated, like the ps3.

Experts agree, HD DVD/Blu-Ray are not REVOLUTIONARY, like DVD was to VHS, and this is EXACTLY why in addition to higher quality the future next gen format needs to have a hook, it needs to have expanded functionality for a consumer regardless whether or not they will use it. Something that Blu-Ray won't be able to provide until late next year in the same way HD DVD already does.

Btw, I would suggest you read this very informative article from the Economist.

http://www.economist.com/daily/columns/tec...00&fsrc=nwl

Sony has been good and increasing the functionality of the ps3. I know the ps3 is not the ultimate blu-ray player, but it's the most popular right now (and almost the cheapest). When I bought it I could barely do anything with it, now it does dvd upscaling, you can stream media, they are going to release a tv tuner for it... it's great. Microsoft also did the same with the 360.

With every update they've been improving the video playback too, so I don't think it's gonna be difficult for them to issue an update to the newer blu-ray profiles. Not all the ps3s are used for bd playing, that's true, but it's still the most popular bd player.

One thing I hate about ALL the movie studios (except for warner, for the time being), is the confusion they are bringing to the consumer. They said: "We can't agree on which format to support, so we're gonna let the consumer decide". If studios are going "exclusive", there's no way the consumer is deciding. It's the studios that are deciding, not the consumer. With VHS/Beta it was different because people saw it was better in certain aspect (longer tapes?) and bought it. But that was something! hd-dvd/bd are almost the same, and in a year they will be the same, providing this 2.0 profile comes in time.

If they had truly wanted the consumers to decide, all of them should've gone neutral. Maybe not sony pictures / columbia, considering their ties with their parent company. That's why I didn't like the paramount thing. There's nothing wrong with both formats being out there, much like DVD+-R.

[sn00pie]

Up until this point I believed BD>HD, but thanks to you I'm realizing it's more like HD>BD and could possibly be Blu-Ray dies like most of Sony's formats. Even I admit it, most of Sony's own format-type thingies do suck. UMD? Mini-Disc? They suck! Thank you Boz! :p

BUT - At Future Shop, you can buy a HD-DVD player for $499, while the cheapest BD player is $599($549 for PS3), while that LG super-disc player thingy(plays both HD and BD) is $999. Wouldn't you just buy a HD-DVD player, and a BD player for the same price? Your not saving anything except space, I guess. Like you say HD-DVD players are cheaper, I don't see anything that's directly available to consumers in stores for those cheap prices. Xbox 360 + HD-DVD player is still near PS3 BD player territory.

Boz - your analogy makes sense. But I think it would make more sense comparing something like this.

Ferrari 599 GTB Fioriano (HD) vs. Ferrari Enzo (BD)

Both have the same engine, except the Enzo costs 1/3 more, and weighs 400 pounds less. The 599 has more luxury features, while the Enzo is essentially a more bare bone race car type. The Enzo has less features, but on the track it's got more performance. :D

Haha, makes some sense I think! I tried. :p

Edited August 28, 2007 by Game

[kak]

Comparing cars and traffic speeds is a horrible analogy Boz. Try again. You are very fluent with your arguments for HD-DVD yet they all fail in the point that the industry and consumer markets have favored BD much more than HD-DVD.

I've read quite a bit of your posts. It seems like you're still convincing yourself that HD-DVD is better. If it is better, thats great. They can focus on cheap costs (which as stated above, aren't the case as the movies still cost $30 [see: industry standard] and the players aren't plummeting in price as predicted) and "awesome extras" all they want, but until they get better exclusives and more titles to the market, it won't matter.