Paramount and Dreamworks going HD DVD exclusive

[JoHideo]

Alot of good information in this thread. I have been wondering when studios would take advantage of HD-DVDs lowere costs and seems that is coming. Also, bundling SD and HD in the same package is brilliant! Should bring the turning point for HD-DVD along with the lower prices.

[Slimy]

From what I can tell, it comes down to how soon within 18 months Universal announces HD DVD exclusivity. The longer it waits, the more likely it is that BD will win, if a win is the future that is. I sure as hell hope there isn't a tie.

[kak]

Alot of good information in this thread. I have been wondering when studios would take advantage of HD-DVDs lowere costs and seems that is coming. Also, bundling SD and HD in the same package is brilliant! Should bring the turning point for HD-DVD along with the lower prices.

This is the main benefit of HD-DVD now. Its the only reason I would buy into it currently if I did not own a PS3.

[Boz]

From what I can tell, it comes down to how soon within 18 months Universal announces HD DVD exclusivity. The longer it waits, the more likely it is that BD will win, if a win is the future that is. I sure as hell hope there isn't a tie.

? Universal is already HD DVD exclusive :) You mean WB?

[Boz]

Comparing cars and traffic speeds is a horrible analogy Boz. Try again. You are very fluent with your arguments for HD-DVD yet they all fail in the point that the industry and consumer markets have favored BD much more than HD-DVD.

I've read quite a bit of your posts. It seems like you're still convincing yourself that HD-DVD is better. If it is better, thats great. They can focus on cheap costs (which as stated above, aren't the case as the movies still cost $30 [see: industry standard] and the players aren't plummeting in price as predicted) and "awesome extras" all they want, but until they get better exclusives and more titles to the market, it won't matter.

LOL..why market favored BD until now was because Sony was overpromising. They promised that PS3 will reach 6 million units by now in the US alone, it didn't. They said that BD50 discs will be available at the same price as HD DVD DL30gb discs, it didn't, they said PS3 will crush HD DVD in a matter of few months and that there's no war, it didn't. To be honest, Profile fiascos and lack of compatibility with current players is another big thing that a lot of people were dissapointed with. Some of that support was just plain buy out, read Blockbuster or Target end caps. You don't have to agree with me, just wait a little bit longer and it will be clear to you. What's going on now is what I've been predicting for a while. Not Paramount, but the flip in general.

Second, I am not trying to make myself believe. I have BOTH and I'm just saying how it is. Out of my 25 Blu-Ray movies I have only a few (4-5) with great hi-def transfer, others are simply HORRIBLE quality, noise/grain. It became so obvious last night on one movie "King Arthur" that I watched with a couple of my friends. What's funny is that my friends started noticing when we watch Blu-Ray and when we watch HD DVD and yet they have ABSOLUTELY no interest in format wars or hi-def, but they notice. I didn't tell them King Arthur was Blu-Ray. They said, damn is this Blu-Ray, it's so noisy. And I didn't offset their view. The reason they say that is that a couple of previous movies we watched on Blu-Ray were grainy, read, Invincible, POTC1 and a few others. This is the problem with MPEG2 encoding that is present on majority of BD titles.

HD DVD has constantly outmatched Blu-Ray discs. 2 best discs I have on Blu-Ray that can match the quality of most of my HD DVD titles are POTC2 and Casino Royale. Out of 67 HD DVDs I have I can tell you in all honestly that I was dissapointed with maybe 2 or 3 of them as the transfer was too soft.

So don't think for a second that I'm trying to convince myself of anything, I have it, I watch it every day on high-end equipment, unlike many Blu-Ray supporters who in many cases don't even have access to HD DVD yet they are so loud to point it's "flaws".

[sn00pie]

So don't think for a second that I'm trying to convince myself of anything, I have it, I watch it every day on high-end equipment, unlike many Blu-Ray supporters who in many cases don't even have access to HD DVD yet they are so loud to point it's "flaws".

I agree with that. Most people like myself who are going/gone HD can only afford one of either. I haven't seen an HD-DVD, I bought the PS3 mainly for gaming and built-in Blu-Ray player was an excuse to justify the cost.

For me the choice was simple PS3>Xbox 360, PS3+Blu-Ray>Xbox 360+HD-DVD.

But IF I were a consumer looking to head into the HD market, not HD console, I'd definatly go HD-DVD.

*There's a thread on AVSForum that grades what BD discs look good, great, bad, horrible etc. (Y)

[TDQuiksilver]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

No matter what tech specs, gadgets, and debates are discussed here... the line still points to Blu-ray.

Will it in another six months? Time will tell. It's all speculation until then. But for now, the jury still stands. This holiday season will be very interesting.

[Ironman273]

I think the reason why price is pointed out here is not for the consumer but for the studios. If I release a movie and sell it for $20, but I make more money with HD than with BR then financially I would steer towards HD. I would imagine that meetings that were happening way back when went something like this:

Sony: Here it is guys! The new PS3 specs! Look at the PS2, it's killing in the marketplace. As soon as we release the PS3 every home in America will have one within 6 months! And if every home has a PS3, every home will have a BR drive to play your movies in.

Studios: OK, Sony, we can see how the PS2 is doing so your plan does make sense. It seems like it will be the winning format. I mean, look how the Xbox is stacking up to the PS2 and Microsoft is backing HD.

Fast forward to today:

Studios: Well, it seems like the PS3 is not the success it was made out to be. Now we have to make a decision to back our current investment in BR or take our losses and move to HD.

So it seems like some studios are still trying to predict the future and back the format that will make them more money quicker and in the long run.

[sn00pie]

I think the PS3 is doing better than alot of Sony haters said it would. It's still not doing as great as Sony said it would, but since the clearance on the 60GB models it's looking better.

Most (of the 360 fanboys) said it would be an immediate flop, that's not the case. The PS3 is slowly but surely gathering steam. :D

[Ironman273]

I think the PS3 is doing better than alot of Sony haters said it would. It's still not doing as great as Sony said it would, but since the clearance on the 60GB models it's looking better.

Most (of the 360 fanboys) said it would be an immediate flop, that's not the case. The PS3 is slowly but surely gathering steam. :D

I don't recall anyone saying it would actually flop. The name alone would carry it through this generation. Most of the concern was with the information that Sony was releasing and their "we're going to dominate the market. We don't have any competition." It's obviously not doing what they expected it to fo and, quote frankly, the Wii was the big surprise this generation. Honestly I think you're telling yourself that to make yourself feel better about your allegiances. Right now it's not doing well, everyone said it would outsell the 360 after the price drop and it didn't. They aren't coming out with many good games in the near future. Everyone said Lair was a must-have title and it's getting killed in the reviews. Who's to say how many more games will follow the same footsteps. The exclusives that made the PS3 a must have machine are migrating away. Sony needs help pretty badly right now. On the plus side, it does seem like they have their head in the game lately but it's going to take a lot to pull back from where they are.

[soniqstylz]

? Universal is already HD DVD exclusive :) You mean WB?

Universal has an 18-month exclusivity contract.

That is about up.

The Paramount deal is also the same, an 18-month window.

[soniqstylz]

Okay for the record, none of the people I know and interact with all over the web have EVER said that Blu-Ray was WINNING. That was exclusively Blu-Ray FUD and was believed by all Blu-bois out there. We all knew this was coming and were always saying this. We said, wait when players hit $199, wait when studios make calculations with production costs and so on and on. I'm not sure who you are talking about. I'm still very certain that HD DVD will win as it is in much better position.

Wrong. It doesn't matter who you randomly interact with, the BD-outselling-HD-DVD-by-2-to-1 comes from Nielsen.

However, from Blu-Ray.com

New data from Home Media Research shows that Blu-ray is continuing to lead in high definition media sales. As of August 5th, the top 10 best selling high definition movies are all available on Blu-ray, and half of those exclusive to the format. Warner Brother's '300' leads the pack, followed by 'The Departed', 'Casino Royale', 'Planet Earth', and 'Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest'.

Noticeably absent from the list is Universal who did not have a title which sold enough copies to break into the top 20. Paramount made it to 17th with their release of 'Babel', but if there wasn't a Blu-ray version of the title, it would have fallen short making the list.

Second, the only thing I personally admitted was that Sony PR machinery was kicking HD DVD Group's butt and that if HD DVD ever loses this war it will be because of PR not value.

Yes, and that's the whole point. With HD DVD a studio has more flexibility. Look at my posts above. DL BD50 is EXTREMELY expensive to manufacture and are only created currently at 2 factories in the whole world. So with prices that replicators themselves charge, prices are much lower for HD DVD even combos. The reason you are being charged more now is because the market for hi-def is still small. Once it goes into millions you'll be paying the same prices as you are paying DVDs and THIS is exactly where HD DVDs cheaper price comes in. With Blu-Ray a studio could NEVER make the prices to match the current DVDs because it costs an arm and a leg. At least not for a long while.

Also wrong. According to Home Media Research, the difference in price to replicate discs is about 10 cents at most, and is dropping.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom080507/index.php

Bulk disk pricing data obtained from three major replicators shows an order of 25,000 non-hybrid HD-DVDs can run anywhere from less than $.90 per disk, to as much as $1.45 per disk. For 25,000 Blu-Ray disks, the price runs from a little more than $1 per disk, to $1.50.

For people to believe this, they trust "unnamed sources" and insiders that have to hide their identities. I mean come on. Let's be real here. We know very well that it's damage control by Sony and nothing else and whoever believes this is really ignorant. And I'm sorry New York Times is already known about publishing BS stories with unproven and blog supported facts. Alan Bell, Paramount CTO btw, was VERY clear why they chose to be exclusive. It's simple as that.

Yeah, the NY Times using unnamed sources is Blu-Ray FUD. I guess Deep Throat, NSA Wiretaps, and Barry Bonds taking steroids are also Blu-Ray FUD.

Well let me just point out why HD DVD has an upper hand here. It's not just having features like PiP. That's something that is cool and all but is something that I will rarely use, BUT, let me give you a scenario. You take out your 4 year old HD DVD and put it in your HD DVD player. Instead of seeing 4 year old trailers, movie information etc, you get to see latest trailers and get to see movie times at your local theater, coming soon releases to HD DVD etc etc. This is just one of the things that is revolutionary and is actually merging web/party media center capabilities and promotion into one. The interactive features ARE very much important because they give a user the next step in DVD evolution. Better picture, higher interactivity.

Trailers? Really? That's the big advanatage, that I can watch trailers?

Experts agree, HD DVD/Blu-Ray are not REVOLUTIONARY, like DVD was to VHS, and this is EXACTLY why in addition to higher quality the future next gen format needs to have a hook, it needs to have expanded functionality for a consumer regardless whether or not they will use it. Something that Blu-Ray won't be able to provide until late next year in the same way HD DVD already does.

Btw, I would suggest you read this very informative article from the Economist.

http://www.economist.com/daily/columns/tec...00&fsrc=nwl

Not late next year. Fox is putting out BDLive! movies by October.

http://wesleytech.com/fox-to-promote-bd-live/339/

Honestly, firmware updates for some of the interactive offline features shouldn't be tough to include on the disc, so when it first needs to be installed, it can be.

Also, while we're exchanging links:

http://www.homemediaretailing.com/news/htm...rticle_id=11080

[Dogan]

Also, while we're exchanging links:

http://www.homemediaretailing.com/news/htm...rticle_id=11080

Good article (Y)

[goji]

Though HD-DVD may be the "best" platform, it is not winning the war financially nor is Blu-Ray; DVD is still the king. Though links and ratios have been thrown around, no significant numbers substantiating either sides claims to victory have been presented, until today (atleast for the sake of this thread).

With all that out of the way, let's look at some real numbers. For months now, we've been inundated with press releases trumpeting the 2:1 sales gap between Blu-ray and HD DVD, but until recently none of them offered the actual number of units sold. We were given ratios and percentages, all of which sounded pretty damning for HD DVD's chances of survival, but had no real figures to back them up. It wasn't until a couple of weeks ago that Home Media Research provided actual sales numbers for the first half of 2007. In that announcement we learned that sales of Blu-ray discs for the first six months of 2007 totaled 1.6 million units, compared with 795,000 HD-DVD discs sold in the same time frame.

Indeed, that's twice as many Blu-ray sales as HD DVD. Doesn't that just about wrap up this format war?

Not so fast. The sales lead only sounds impressive when taken out of context. To put those numbers into perspective, during its first week of release alone, the Standard-Def DVD edition of '300' sold 5.10 million copies. That's one single movie on DVD, during just one week of release, moving more than twice as many units as all Blu-rays and HD DVDs combined could manage in 6 months. In fact, that lone DVD in its first week significantly outsold the grand total of all High-Def media from inception in early 2006 to date (3.7 million in all). That's an astounding disparity, and it has only grown in subsequent weeks of that disc's sales life.

Let there be no confusion on this point. DVD is where the studios make their money. High Definition media amounts to barely a blip on the DVD sales radar. Bragging that Blu-ray has outsold HD DVD 2:1 at these volumes is like boasting that an ant is larger than a flea, just before the big shoe of DVD comes down to smoosh them both into oblivion.

Continue at source

Its a great read with no FUD; read it you have the time.

Edited September 2, 2007 by GOJI_GKing2000

[Boz]

Wrong. It doesn't matter who you randomly interact with, the BD-outselling-HD-DVD-by-2-to-1 comes from Nielsen.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say that I'm wrong about? Instead of glancing over my response and trumpeting 2:1 numbers that have actually went from 4:1 to 2:1 from the PS3 start maybe you should actually read what I'm saying and was responding to. Typical behavior for Blu-Ray tool. As soon as you see information that has any notice of Blu-Ray not winning past 2:1 numbers.

However, from Blu-Ray.com (Ah, the place for objective and real information LOL).

Also wrong. According to Home Media Research, the difference in price to replicate discs is about 10 cents at most, and is dropping.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom080507/index.php

Wrong what? First of all can you please quote the information that states the information you posted or point out what page it is on as I can't find it. I'm curious if they are talking about BD50gb discs. As it has been confirmed by 3rd party replicators and other insiders, BD50gb discs have horrible yield rates, ranging from 10% at 3rd party lines and hardly up to 40% at Sony DADC factories. Also, please tell me where, I for example, can order replication of Dual Layer BD50 discs from anywhere but Sony's factory. If you can provide me with that information that would be awesome. Cause I can give you information about HD DVD both SL15gb and DL30gb discs but I get a negative answer from everyone about DL50gb Blu-Ray discs.

Yeah, the NY Times using unnamed sources is Blu-Ray FUD. I guess Deep Throat, NSA Wiretaps, and Barry Bonds taking steroids are also Blu-Ray FUD.

I don't really have to respond anything here. Nikki Finke has been well known to support BS reporting with unnamed sources with statements like "I've been told" (basically the information that NYT sourced from her). The whole spectacle was so blown out of proportion by BDA because they lost a huge advantage and actually got into serious trouble by losing the majority of titles. The money is definitely in play, there's no question about that..but the statements about 18 months deals and $150 million as a "payoff" are ridiculous. For some reason, all Blu-bois are saying that Paramount CTO, CEO, Toshiba's executives, Microsoft executive are lying AND unnamed sources are 100% true. This trend is concerning for the public in general not just this format war. It shows very distrubing lack of critical thinking and openness for manipulation.

Here..Toshiba's response about Paramount:

Toshiba promised Paramount and DreamWorks Animation "some money" to cover costs "to jointly promote" their titles, in a deal for the studios to support HD DVD and not Blu-ray, Toshiba's top HD DVD executive told [the C, E, D] at IFA Friday. But reports that Toshiba paid the studios $150 million for their support are "totally wrong," Yoshihide Fujii, CEO of Toshiba's Digital Network Co., said without elaborating.

A studio would be "stupid" to accept money to back "the wrong product," Fujii said. "Sooner or later," Paramount and DreamWorks Animation would realize HD DVD "is the wrong product," if that was so, and if the endorsements were based only on payments, he said. "Only because they feel this is the right product" did Paramount and DreamWorks Animation agree to back HD DVD exclusively, Fujii said. "This is a fact," he declared.

On the other hand, it has been clear at this IFA that BDA clearly greased BD favoring studios.

Here's a transcript from press event at IFA by BDA. Pay attention what the consumer asks:

Question to BDA: it's about Paramount/Dreamworks. People speculated that Paramount were given 'sweeteners''. The person asking wants a Yes or No answer from all of the studios - have you been 'sweetened' to stick exclusively with Blu-ray?

Answer: (Nobody wants to answer this).

The FOX exec is given the mic: "We were given very good content protection" (smiles).

Disney/Buena Vista rep states "no comment".

(They continue passing the mic around).

Question to BDA: The guy who originally asked the question wants a definite confirmation that NO studio has received any sweetener to stay with Blu-ray.

Answer from Buena Vista: "That's not what I said. I said no comment".

Trailers? Really? That's the big advanatage, that I can watch trailers?

I mean, come on. Are you for real? You know better then this yet to decide to respond with such asinine rethoric. You know very well it's not just trailers. This is exactly why Blu-Ray FUD is so disgusting. Knowing about something, yet disseminating half truths and ironic statements that have no connection with truth are just simply down right wrong.

Examples:

- The Fast and The Furious Tokyo Drift

- Blood Diamond

- 300

- The new Ultimate Edition of Terminator 2 on HDVD

- Motorhead's HD DVD discs that features community based web features like submit your tattos and review them on HDDVD.

and quite a few more and just watch for the new upcoming releases.

The Ultimate Terminator 2 HD DVD with exceptional web and interactive features.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A4UKRwSZZo and hi-res photos: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.ph...mp;postcount=17

You might want to read that same magazine you post as the Motorhead HD DVD was highly praised for it's web based community support through an HD DVD disc.

Btw, interesting thing..the first sighting of HD DVD's Triple Layer 51gb disc from IFA 2007.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=901652

Not late next year. Fox is putting out BDLive! movies by October.

http://wesleytech.com/fox-to-promote-bd-live/339/

Honestly, firmware updates for some of the interactive offline features shouldn't be tough to include on the disc, so when it first needs to be installed, it can be.

LOL. Wishful thinking. Not one player has been announced to support BD-Live including PS3. What are you gonna watch those movie BD live features on?

Here..from your own article you quoted:

BD-Live is not currently supported by any Blu-ray player, but the Playstation 3 should allow this functionality.

Now this should you see right there is SPECULATION. Not one peep out of Sony camp whether or not this feature will be available or even if firmware update is possible that will allow this. But let's say that PS3 gets BD Live. What are the other folks who bought $600 BD players suppose to do? Screw themselves? How pro-consumer. But yeah, right, you don't care if they didn't buy a PS3 right? Cause it's the bestest thing in the world and you got it..right?

Also, while we're exchanging links:

http://www.homemediaretailing.com/news/htm...rticle_id=11080

Do you actually read and think about articles you post or is it like an impulse you get while cruising Blu-Ray.com and pressing CTRL+C.

By 2011, 36% of all U.S. households will have Blu-ray and/or HD DVD players, with another 22% of households owning that "important Trojan horse" for high-def: HD-enabled game consoles, Bottoms said. HD-enabled PC drives will be in 17% of U.S. households by 2011.

Do you know what this means? This means that considering that standalone numbers are in HD DVDs favor for standalone sales (70% of market share I believe), means that out of those 36% of housholds most likely with current pricing will have HD DVD players in their houses, while among the other 22% of having consoles might be shared by HD DVD add-on X360 as well as PS3. This only means that the market will be crawling with HD DVD players. And considering the attachment ratio we have now it is quite clear that people will be generating much more then PS3 in purchases. Of course this is all speculation as we really don't know how well sub $200 standalones will sell this holiday season, or what will happen for example if Paramount releases Transformers or Shrek 3rd on HD DVD/DVD disc instead of regular SD version.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Boz

[Boz]

Universal has an 18-month exclusivity contract.

That is about up.

The Paramount deal is also the same, an 18-month window.

Okay, you keep believing that, while I'm watching Transformers, Next, Shrek Trilogy on my HD DVD player.

[Boz]

Oh btw, for those interested there's absolutely SICK stuff coming to HD DVD and the new HD DVD movies are conforming to the new DYNAMIC HD initiative.

While reading about the cool new T2 ultimate HD DVD and the interactivity, I found that Dynamic HD is exactly what we've been talking about in terms of bringing superb interactive and online experiences for a regular person owning just an HD DVD player.

The demo:

http://www.dynamichd.com

The website:

http://www.dynamichd.com/flashdemo.html

One word. Awesome!

Just so we are clear that it's not just downloading trailers and soniqstylz says.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Boz

[PL_ Veteran]

Boz, cool feature, but it does sound like fluff designed to steer people the HD-DVD way. Perhaps this will take off on HD-DVD titles that aren't films? ;)

[Boz]

Boz, cool feature, but it does sound like fluff designed to steer people the HD-DVD way. Perhaps this will take off on HD-DVD titles that aren't films? ;)

Just look at this way. If you want it you have it..if you don't want it, you don't have to use it. Unlke BD at this moment and probably next year or more, it gives you options. Agreed?

I love this because an average couch potato who like to buy stuff from infomercials will be able to buy goodies related to movies and other stuff and help the rest of user's not buying this, get movies and discs cheaper. Just see the practice for everything else. If they get to advertise and sell stuff through discs without really intrusion for people who don't want it (you still get to watch perfect hi-def video and audio movie), this will allow you to buy the movie much cheaper.. Get it? It's the way business is.

I personally think it's very cool. T2 Ultimate HD DVD looks simply awesome with all the features.

[Ironman273]

Boz, where does Microsoft's HD-DVD add-on for the 360 fall in all of this. Does it support all the features you're describing? If not, is it a software patch type of thing?

[Boz]

Boz, where does Microsoft's HD-DVD add-on for the 360 fall in all of this. Does it support all the features you're describing? If not, is it a software patch type of thing?

Well I presume that the add-on for the XBox 360 won't have this because on Xbox we have XBL Marketplace. Keep in mind though that DynamicHD is currently active in Europe (though it is definitely working everywhere because web servers are country-independent). DynamicHD is pretty much meant for standalones. We might see DynamicHD integrate with XBL Marketplace though. I would assume that would be more logical as for the X360s add-on major functionality relies on XBox 360.

[Ayepecks]

Aren't Crank and the SAW movies Lionsgate? Are those coming to HD DVD... thought they were Blu Ray exclusive?

[Boz]

Aren't Crank and the SAW movies Lionsgate? Are those coming to HD DVD... thought they were Blu Ray exclusive?

LOL yeah, they are all coming to HD DVD. :)

[kak]

The whole internet feature thing is ridiculous. Most people don't even check out the features on disc so it is even funnier that they are pushing their format by allowing you to download extras. Sounds like a lot of work to hear some director commentary about something I'll inevitably not care about.

All I hope for is one format to win soon. I'm really like hi-def and I don't want to make a dedication to one format for it to fail. I'm not so worried about my BR movies being obsolete since I have a PS3, but it will suck having to use it for a few movies if it doesn't win this 'war.' Same for HD-DVD owners.

[mattmatik]

The whole internet feature thing is ridiculous. Most people don't even check out the features on disc so it is even funnier that they are pushing their format by allowing you to download extras. Sounds like a lot of work to hear some director commentary about something I'll inevitably not care about.

How can you say that? How do you know how many people choose to watch features or not? Just because you may not care to doesn't mean the majority of the people out there don't want to.

I'll be honest, before I got my HDDVD add-on for the 360, I didn't pay much attention to features except the rare deleted scenes or alternate endings. But, now I find myself watching movies listening to the director commentary. For example, watching Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz while listening to the commentary track is absolutely hilarious. So, last night I was at my fiance's house and we were watching Talladega Nights Unrated on DVD, a movie we've had for a while. I found myself pouring over the extra features, whereas before I couldn't be bothered with them.

Personally, I think that DynamicHD program sounds great and we'd definitely put it to good use.

All I hope for is one format to win soon. I'm really like hi-def and I don't want to make a dedication to one format for it to fail. I'm not so worried about my BR movies being obsolete since I have a PS3, but it will suck having to use it for a few movies if it doesn't win this 'war.' Same for HD-DVD owners.

That part is not really worth worrying about. They will release combo players, which are already being designed and produced. So, whatever movies you have now, you will be able to watch later no matter who wins.