AutoPatcher no longer allowed

By Steven P.
in Site Announcements

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frbubba

Posted
Posted

I personally love autopatcher and I always promoted it to cut down time on reinstalls and it gave great control over what was installed, tweaks, etc. Personally, I plan on keeping the versions of autopatcher I do have because even if I have to download the addition patches, it will still continue to save me a lot of time by using autopatcher first.

On another note, I am not at all surprised that MS has done this or I should say, I was surprised they ever tolerated the autopatcher project to begin with considering how possessive they are of their programs and the lengths they will go with things like WGA.

Rising Star

PsiMoon314

Posted
Posted

Hi,

Maybe this will help some people understand a few things. The following are my opinions based on a bit of legal research and theory as well as intelligent / informed 'guesses' or inferences. It is not meant to be either argumentative or interpreted in any way as 'hostile' towards anyone.

<SNIP>

You are missing the point regarding Autopatcher and what it's used for.

It's an *offline* method of updating Windows systems with publicly available patches and hotfixes. No non-public hotfixes are included in AP.

There are few if any security issues with AP given that the digital signatures are intact on all hotfixes and patches. It would be very easy for anyone to verify that they have not been tampered with.

In most cases IT professionals and others who maintain systems for others need a method to update Windows systems that do not have or are not able to connect to the Internet or an internal network.

Even with SP2 installed on XP (for example) there are now ~ 150+ MBytes of updates to download to completely patch a PC. This does not even include required software such as .NET Framework(s) etc.

Have you ever tried to download all of the MS updates on WU/MU at a customers home when you are working on their PC? Folks will not wait the 1 to 2 hours or pay an hourly rate for you to sit there are do that I can assure you!

Anyone who thinks that WU/MU hosts every single security or functionality update for Windows XP has clearly not being paying attention to what MS is doing with the WU/MU service.

Downloading all of those patches from MS via WU/MU takes time and costs money expecially in bandwidth costs. If you reinstall Windows on many PC's daily a update system like Autopatcher is a must.

Removing AP immediatly translates into increased costs for IT professionals which means that end users who want their PC's fixed are going to have to wait longer and possibly pay more to get them fixed in future.

Most hotfixes do not install on systems that don't need them, so the install and forget issue is not an issue. In any event most folks do not use AP in that way.

The AP team was not looking for endorsement from MS nor frankly was it needed.

Indeed MS has tacitly approved of AP for a long time (over 4 years) so enforcing their intellectual property rights now is a bit late, and frankly short sighted, especially given that they do not have a suitable replacement to offer.

If Windows XP SP3 has been released a long time ago then this would have been less of an issue however MS still has not released this.

The only end result of this situation is a lot of upset and angry IT professionals who will not be forgetting how MS has badly handled this situation.

Hopefully the AP project will continue in another form, perhaps by directly downloading the patches from MS servers rather than distributing them. Paradoxically this will only increase MS's costs for patch distribution.

Kind Regards

Simon

Mentor

tao muon

Posted
Posted
Hi,

You are missing the point regarding Autopatcher and what it's used for.

It's an *offline* method of updating Windows systems with publicly available patches and hotfixes. No non-public hotfixes are included in AP.

<snip>

Kind Regards

Simon

Perhaps you didn't read my post in its entirety, but I believe I addressed what you wrote in that post. I also mentioned that the updates are available from Microsoft's Update Catalog- meaning they can be downloaded and burnt to disk and used offline. I also illustrated the primary difference between the two- Autopatcher is a 'one-click' method of installing....

I also asked how does one keep Autopatcher current- I believe an Internet connection is required for updates to it, correct? This somewhat mitigates the 'offline' installation method Autopatcher advertises. If I have to go online to download updates for Autopatcher, I could just as well go online and download updates from Microsoft's Update Catalog, no?... then burn them to a CD / DVD for installation. Microsoft's way is a bit more cumbersome when dealing with offline installations, but does allow it. (I think I mentioned that too....)

If I was in error about non-public patches being available (ones requiring MS Support contact) for installation with Autopatcher, I apologize.

Regards.

Rising Star

SteelTrepid

Posted
Posted
I also asked how does one keep Autopatcher current- I believe an Internet connection is required for updates to it, correct? This somewhat mitigates the 'offline' installation method Autopatcher advertises.

That's a stupid comment. Remember you are talking to a bunch of tech's here! We download it and us it on OTHER systems.

I download AP on my system that has all updates already on it, rather than throwing an unpatched system out on the dangerous internet full of exploits.

Countless people have posted that they use it for clean installs, so duh....you are going to have the latest version on a CD or thumb drive that way you can patch a new install. Saves the 200+ MB's worth of downloads and several reboots if you do it with WU.

If I wanted to waste several hours downloading updates from the catalog, I would. But I prefer to save time by using AutoPatcher.

Mentor

tao muon

Posted
Posted
That's a stupid comment. Remember you are talking to a bunch of tech's here! We download it and us it on OTHER systems.

I download AP on my system that has all updates already on it, rather than throwing an unpatched system out on the dangerous internet full of exploits.

Countless people have posted that they use it for clean installs, so duh....you are going to have the latest version on a CD or thumb drive that way you can patch a new install. Saves the 200+ MB's worth of downloads and several reboots if you do it with WU.

Someone's not reading my post(s), or at least is not understanding them.

You can go to Microsoft's Update Catalog, download all the updates, put them on a CD/DVD/Flash Drive and take them around with you to OTHER computers, just like Autopatcher. This makes the third time I've mentioned this. Oh, and the Update Catalog also includes WHQL drivers for download... and Office patches too.

And, how many times has Autopatcher 'changed' things and required a full-release download, instead of just an update?

And, I think the August one was like 350+MB.

The Microsoft way- just download the new updates from the Catalog and burn them.

Yeah, I said MS's way is more cumbersome, so I know that.

*cheers*

Contributor

Xyphus

Posted
Posted

They just want to make sure that next time their WGA servers go down there is no alternative way to update. That way they can get a huge influx of people who have to buy a new copy of Windows. (sarcasm) :)

Grand Master

ozgeek

Posted
Posted

The best solution to all this is to ensure all the machines have Automatic Updates turned ON. In this case updates will be downloaded and installed without you worrying about it. Even it can be left on when computers are returned to customers so when tehy take them home, it would be automatically updated when updates are available. So there is no excuse of "offline installation". If they don't have an internet connection then they can obain the updates by the MS's Update Cataglogue. I understand why MS took action on this. It is the ensure the confident in customers that they are downloading geniune and legitmate updates and not dodgy, possible-modified upates. Yes, I know Autopatcher does not modify updates but that does not matter. Looks like Windez Update is next up on MS's radar of "Sites to shut down" scope.

Grand Master

Denis W. Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

That's too bad. For me, I'll just do one last update of Autopatcher before storing the DVD somewhere safe for future uses.

I'm not really that ticked off at MS as an entirety, but more like annoyed over the dip****s in their legal department that are so out of touch with the rest of the company and the global community. Yeah, so a few Microsoft representatives acknowledged the presence of Autopatcher. Maybe some MS developers endorsed it. That says jack**** for their legal team.

Neowinian

Tengu2

Posted
Posted

:angry: Microsoft the son of bitches!!!! I have used Autopatcher in ALL computers i have worked on its been a godsend, its a very sad day when such a great product gets screwed over by the big boys.

Its happen more and more as microsoft trys to tighten its grip on the pc market,whos next ?

Our only hope is that someone trys to continue it on in a different form,PLEASE!!!

Neowinian

NOS@BSD

Posted
Posted

Just looked at the Catalog, Cumbersome is correct. Its so unintuitive that it hurts just looking at it. Would it have killed them to have some filters in it for like after this point or for Office 2007 only. Instead it looks like it just for finding that ONE patch or update that you see in a KB article or told to over the phone. In other words a placeholder to refer back to so that they can be flagged for lack of customer service. I can't call it a alternative to WU at all when you consider the 10-14 patches that come out every month. if you don't have an internet connection and IE X.X on your machine you might as well just call it a day.

Neowinian

earthsound

Posted
Posted
I asked the representative if Windows Genuine Advantage had anything to do with it and he categorically told me this was not the case, he added that Windows Update for pre-Vista versions of Windows can now be accessed using Firefox and that the concern at Microsoft had more to do with the possible malicious code that could be redistributed with certified Microsoft updates.

Does anyone know where this elusive Firefox-friendly Microsoft/Windows Update site exists? I'm not talking about unofficial sites, but the real thing.

Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
... I believe that Linux and Mac OSX era is getting closer faster than never before.

...

Even as a Linux user and Open Source supporter, I sincerely doubt that shutting down Autopatcher will have a serious impact to marketshare.
Grand Master

+Warwagon MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted (edited)

my life is now going to be hell, I used it all the time with new installs of Windows on customers pc's that had a **** slow internet connection.

oh well ,at lease we'll always have augest update floating around online

time to leak source code ;-)

Edited by warwagon
Neowinian

commochief

Posted
Posted (edited)
Someone's not reading my post(s), or at least is not understanding them.

You can go to Microsoft's Update Catalog, download all the updates, put them on a CD/DVD/Flash Drive and take them around with you to OTHER computers, just like Autopatcher. This makes the third time I've mentioned this. Oh, and the Update Catalog also includes WHQL drivers for download... and Office patches too.

And, how many times has Autopatcher 'changed' things and required a full-release download, instead of just an update?

And, I think the August one was like 350+MB.

The Microsoft way- just download the new updates from the Catalog and burn them.

Yeah, I said MS's way is more cumbersome, so I know that.

*cheers*

The only problems with getting them from the Catalog is:

a.) you must download each update seperately, meaning over 70 downloads on a clean install if you do all the updates possible

b.) all of them are named kb9878754...ect, unless you rename each one individually, then you have to take the time for that.

Autopatcher was a one click download, and you get a slew of updates. Yes you had to add in the Autopatcher updates, to get all 30-40 updates that microsoft adds over a several month period. Still limiting it to one or 2 downloads, versus 10-20.

Very sad to See the autopatcher go. As a Sys Admin for a large IT company, I used autopatcher all the time, especially on new systems. Guess I will start having to make images to load from with all the updates streamlined.

Edited by commochief
Grand Master

Nashy

Posted
Posted

Some of the responses here are just childish. "F Microsoft" "Micro$soft" "I'll never buy another MS product again" (You will).

Sure, you can be dissapointed that this is the action they have taken as most people in this thread are, it was certainly a very very good product that the community had going.

However, it's Microsoft's software, and they have the right to deny other people distribute it.

Mentor

argonite

Posted
Posted
Some of the responses here are just childish. "F Microsoft" "Micro$soft" "I'll never buy another MS product again" (You will).

Sure, you can be dissapointed that this is the action they have taken as most people in this thread are, it was certainly a very very good product that the community had going.

However, it's Microsoft's software, and they have the right to deny other people distribute it.

We have the right to be angry at Microsoft too.

Not that I am, i mean they make wonderful products, but we do have that right.

Proficient

Jack 0Neill

Posted
Posted
Some of the responses here are just childish. "F Microsoft" "Micro$soft" "I'll never buy another MS product again" (You will).

Sure, you can be disappointed that this is the action they have taken as most people in this thread are, it was certainly a very very good product that the community had going.

However, it's Microsoft's software, and they have the right to deny other people distribute it.

Very well said, bravo.

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