HDDVD group cancel CES press conference in wake of Warner announcement

By Ironman273
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Grand Master

Ayepecks

Posted
Posted
Then why mention it if everyone does it. Toshiba was trying to moneyhat Warner as well.

I don't understand why this is a hard concept for you to grasp. Some people think HD DVD was technically the better format, regardless of how much money HD DVD paid Paramount, and regardless of what Sony paid any of their studios.

Why should the bribes have any impact on which format people think is better, one way or the other? :blink:

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Ianwoollam

Posted
Posted
Then why mention it if everyone does it. Toshiba was trying to moneyhat Warner as well.

Because Warner Bros. was insinuating Blu-Ray was better, even though it was just because BDA paid out more :p Hell if DVD Forum had bidded the highest Warner Bros. would be saying HD-DVD was better obviously. Whereas in my opinion other than the little things like no region coding in my eyes they seem exacly the same.

Grand Master

AlphaPrime

Posted
Posted
Some people think HD DVD was technically the better format, regardless of how much money HD DVD paid Paramount, and regardless of what Sony paid any of their studios.

And that's fine, and some people think the other way. Both sides had bribes, do we need to bring it up? Why would a bribe impact on which format they like? And what if Warner was telling the truth and there were none?

Because Warner Bros. was insinuating Blu-Ray was better, even though it was just because they paid out more

Warner said they went with BR cause it sold more, and it did. Nothing wrong with that.

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted
The best format won in the end regardless of what things were done for it to happen.

Then why isn't it the case when it's a Microsoft product (whether it's Windows or IE)?

A Microsoft *loss* (they are a backer of HD DVD) is all well and good; however, a Microsft *win* automagically smells of dirty tactics. Sheesh.

Grand Master

Smigit

Posted
Posted
Then why isn't it the case when it's a Microsoft product (whether it's Windows or IE)?

In the mid 90's Windows was arguably the better product, as was IE 5 when it was released considering the Netscape team had to many issues releasing a new version and when they did IE already had the market (partially helped by it being integrated in wondows, but regardless many saw it as a better browser anyway).

SO why are they still ahead now? Well they won the battle at the right time. I'm sure if another "better" movie format arrived today it would also fail because it's late to the party. It's as much about timing as it is about being the best and MS had the timining right when it mattered in regards to the two products you mentioned.

Grand Master

goji

Posted
Posted
I was talking about consumers voting with their wallets. Was this VHS and BetaMax was as publicised as this war has been? The only information a consumer could get about formats in 80s was speaking to sales people at retailers and we all know how good they are. With all the horror stories about RIAA, MPAA, DRM and now Warner getting bribed, don't you think a concious consumer(not that they form the majority) will vote with their wallets and not get shafted this time around. I will because I know all that wrong stuff thats happening. My dad in 80s didn't because he never know about the licensing fees.

Fair enough, and to be fair and honest, yes, consumers can make a choice. Overwhelmingly for a number of reasons the market trends showed the preference for Blu-Ray over HD-DVD. This plus the under the table "bonus", Warner chose to go blue.

I know that Bluray can change the standard in the future and add new DRM stuff, and this was one of my reasons for support for HDDVD. Considering the number of people/hackers working on stuff like this, any new DRM will eventually be broken and Media companies have already started to realise this.

They've known for a long time. The level of organization necessary to properly implement this DRM industry wide has proven to much, and as a result we don't have the HD flagging, yet.

Just wanted you to know that.

Fair enough, I still wont marry ya ;)

And they can't do anything regarding games because Microsoft tried to save a buck by not including an HD player by default, they can't all of a sudden start making HDDVD games, alienating the majority of its users.

Wrong. It has been said many times in the past that it is "possible" to create hybrid gaming discs. We had them for movies, so its not impossible to create them for games. The tech is there, but the demand however is another story. Plus, the demand for the move from developers and any "improvements" they are allowed to make between the two possible versions could prove volatile.

Grand Master

ctebah

Posted
Posted

i think hd-dvd was a more complete format from the start, had more standalone players that were cheaper but it lacked in sales, and that proved crucial. it is true that the only thing that was holding blu-ray up until now was the ps3, which means that the decision to put an blu-ray player into the ps3 was a genious one. makes you think what would happen if xbox360 had an hd-dvd drive built in from the beggining.

also another point that can't be argued is the fact that blu-ray outsold hd-dvd week by week in 2007. for a format that has "so many wonderful specs behind it" it sure didn't sell well.

Grand Master

AlphaPrime

Posted
Posted
Then it was a terrible business decision. ;)

You're thinking short term though. After DVD sales slow down, they'll need another source of revenue for home movies, DD isn't mature enough to fill that gap, so it was either going to be one of the HD formats. Ending the war is in their best interest for long term profits. The HD market would hurt itself if a format wasn't chosen within the next year or so. Home movie sales would drop as there would be a lot of uncertainty with consumers. Tipping the scales to the side that'll effect the war the most makes sense. Now they could have received money, but does it really matter? The path they chose was the quickest way to do so. I understand some HD-DVD owners might be upset, but it was either going to be a stalemate or this, and this is best for the industry and HD movies in general. HD-DVD never really had a chance to win with it's current strategy. When you look at sales outside of America, you can see that Toshiba didn't really do enough to stop BR from winning WW. Some people may complain, but those will (or should) get over it in time. In the end it's just about HD movies. As long as we move one way, either way, to a standard, the better it'll be. The faster adaption grows, the more movies we'll get.

On a side note, I was looking at the Paramount thread and it's funny to see some people do a complete 180 here. The predictions are interesting to say the least.

Grand Master

goji

Posted
Posted
also another point that can't be argued is the fact that blu-ray outsold hd-dvd week by week in 2007. for a format that has "so many wonderful specs behind it" it sure didn't sell well.

To be consistent though, which format had the most constant advertisements? HD-DVD group did a pitiful job, and Blu-Ray excelled. It could be argued that due to that weakness Blu-Ray succeeded time and time again.

Grand Master

goji

Posted
Posted
You're thinking short term though.

With all due respect, as are you. DVD still has legs, and will continue to run for many many years. These formats, at the time of their introduction filled an interest for higher audio and video resolutions for enthusiast; a niche market.

The purposes for these formats were to supplant DVD primarily for copy right protection; not our enjoyment. As it stands there is no gap worth filling. DVD has continually proven its value by outselling HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs combined by a wide margin in the millions.

Though I will agree that the HD market has suffered significant damages due to this feud. The inability to create a standard for the industry to abide by from day one, the inability to properly educate consumers in a timely manner and the inability to release to rally the industry to release HT components has stalled any chances of massive adoption. Let alone the price point in entering the market where most consumers are better off in this economy saving their dollars instead of spending it on frivolous upgrades where DVD remains king.

Grand Master

AlphaPrime

Posted
Posted
DVD still has legs, and will continue to run for many many years. These formats, at the time of their introduction filled an interest for higher audio and video resolutions for enthusiast; a niche market.

The purposes for these formats were to supplant DVD primarily for copy right protection; not our enjoyment. As it stands there is no gap worth filling. DVD has continually proven its value by outselling HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs combined by a wide margin in the millions.

Do you think DVD just took over VHS this fast? It took many years for that to happen, you have to start somewhere. A standard format is the way to getting this from a niche market (which DVD once was) to the mainstream. This is thinking long term, DVD will be here for a while yet, but you can't just create a new format in the eleventh hour.

And this is the basis for all technology, at one point in time everything was niche. Why have LCD when CRT is fine? Why move to ADSL when 56k is dominant? For a lot of people, once you experience HD, going back to SD-DVD just isn't good enough.

Grand Master

Ayepecks

Posted
Posted
And that's fine, and some people think the other way. Both sides had bribes, do we need to bring it up? Why would a bribe impact on which format they like? And what if Warner was telling the truth and there were none?

Maybe you should re-read the person's post that you were quoting then. :)

Grand Master

seta-san

Posted
Posted

why is it "buying neutrality" when it comes to HD-DVD but it's "dirty payoffs" when it comes to BD-ROM? Both camps are camps are playing by the same rules. Sony came out of the gates with more support and continued to expand that support. Not to mention that Sony's marketing has been impressive and their inclusion of the blu-ray in the PS3 was nothing short of genius. I believe that it doesn't actually matter to the consumer which formats win, except to those who already invested in one of them. Most just want the confusion to end and I can't blame them. You say that competition drives prices and that the presence of hd-dvd is that necessary competition? What about other manufactures of blu-ray players? Sony isn't the only one. They will all have to compete with against one another for market share. We've been seeing an avalache of bad news for the hd-dvd camp and i think it's going to only increase. It's my personal belief that hd-dvd will concede defeat by the end of june or july.

A few things that can indeed bring HD DVD back to the masses:

- everyday price of $99

- $20-$25 dollar twin-discs replacing Universal and Paramount day and date releases

- Xbox 360 with integrated HD DVD drive

- A purchase of Fox's and Disney's neutrality

There's still quite a bit of cash in HD DVD Group, they saved on marketing, they saved on payoffs and they have not had Sony's $7 billion loss so far if not more.

They can easily pay $1 billion if need be, but again, it's a matter of if they want to continue fighting .

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