OblivionStalker Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Thanks for the explanations, I've learned many new things about Neowin. And, no problem here with Stardock. In fact, I respect them a lot, especially since they are the one of the best developers. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurë Veteran Posted May 12, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 12, 2008 I don't really understand why anyone would have a problem with this deal. Do people expect Neowin to be run out of someone's bedroom with the current amount of bandwidth/users etc? Having some more substantial backing keeps Neowin secure and it's not like we have Stardock stuff splashed all over the place. It's there if you're interested, but if you're not, you can easily avoid it... Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappy Veteran Posted May 12, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 12, 2008 I don't have a problem with Stardock / Brad, but I am really happy this thread is here and people are discussing the issue. :laugh: Yeah I like threads like these where can discuss rather then argue (Y) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted May 12, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 12, 2008 Thanks for that. I'm perfectly fine with forum administration admitting they had crappy days. Unfortunately we can expect all the trolls in that thread to read this thread, skim, say 'meh, arse kissers' and exit thread. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
azcodemonkey Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 First of all, I had no idea that Stardock was affiliated other than Brad being on the site. I recall the old days of downtime and slow response, and I'm very grateful that Brad stepped in and helped out. This site is the only tech site I frequent other than /., and the only site I post on. I was a Stardock customer back '99(I think), and would be involved at times in their newsgroups, lurking mostly. I can't recall a time of him being irrational. The only irrational crap I see comes from the trolls that post "Windowblinds blowz" or other similar crap. If it was a product I helped create, I certainly defend it, especially against baseless generalizations and ad hominem attacks. Neowin has to pay back an investment. I thought that when you invest in something there is no paying back. If I invest in stock , I don't have to pay it back, the stock can benefit the investor. As Neowin can benefit Stardock. Or do you mean that Neowin has to pay back Stardock in a non financial way? Unless Stardock is a charity, they have to be payed back. When you buy stock, you are the investor! The company, if it chooses to, can buy back stock. Scarcity of its stock raises its value should the company be in good financial position. The company would probably buy the stock back at more than it's face value, meaning you'd profit. Typically, the agreement is that there will be a return on investment equivalent to a percentage over the principal investment, unless the company just takes a dive. I don't know the terms that Neowin and Stardock have, but often, when the ROI is met, ownership returns completely to the company. Honestly, Stardock having only a 40% share is pretty awesome. Most investors will want a controlling percentage(51%+) to protect their investment. Way to go Neowin! =) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+shift. MVC Posted May 12, 2008 MVC Share Posted May 12, 2008 It's there if you're interested, but if you're not, you can easily avoid it... Users can always just hide that entire section of the forums anyway. It's actually quite convenient! :) Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huleboeren Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I have no idea what Stardock is or that this partnership took place ^^ - Now Im going to ***** about it >_> Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdsams Veteran Posted May 12, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 12, 2008 this should never had been an issue, this sort of thing is a lot more common than you would think... Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
guru Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 ...For instance, I'll get into discussions on cars, politics, OS wars, gadgets, skinning, gaming, you name it. I give opinions on those topics. Some people, naturally, don't agree with those opinions. And a few of them come to not like me for those opinions. And they project those opinions onto Stardock as a whole. .. 1. Thanks for helping out Neowin 2. quoted part of your post must have ****ed you off. but why didn't you create another id and post those opinions. would have been a lot easier on you and your company? Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Veteran Posted May 12, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 12, 2008 why didn't you create another id and post those opinions. would have been a lot easier on you and your company? Because that's against our rules. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I knew Neowin was affiliated with Stardock, but I thought it was just a mutual partnership for the benefit of both parties, I never actually knew Brad "owned" 40% of Neowin. In todays climate, and with Neowin ever expanding, it is harsh to expect the site to continue without any financial backing besides advertisements and subscriber fees. I suppose it is good for everyone, and to be honest most of the moaning is unjustified. I personally have no problem with Brad whatsoever, and I am struggling to see how some other members could. I only have one qualm though; apparently we are now on StarDocks servers (since Feb 2005), but in the years of 2006 and the beginning of 2007 the site was horribly, horribly slow and a lot of people did moan about that. By the way, I love ObjectDock... :p Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomorph Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I've been around Neowin for a while (just look at my reg date), and I've paid for Stardock products in the past (such as Windowblinds). I even have a current subscription to Startdock "Ultimate" thing. Stardock's products are not the problem. You can like them, love them, or hate them. They're just like any other product. The issue is the USER-created and submitted content. Most of what I've seen is god-awful. And then various websites (such as Stardock) charge MONEY to download it. Want an ugly, eye-gouging theme for Windows? No problem! Just pay $10 to download Theme A! Or Theme B, or any other of the hundreds of poorly-design, non-maintained skins available for use with Stardock products. Maybe if you offered downloadables for a more fair $1-$3 each, you know, like the price of ring-tones, people would more likely pay for all the stuff you have. Also, perhaps put up some good design guide-lines. Having something minimal or professional would be more well-received than the LOUD, amateur-ish skins offered. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Frank B. Subscriber² Posted May 12, 2008 Subscriber² Share Posted May 12, 2008 To be honest: This thread proved my pessimism wrong: When Neobond started it this morning I expected a lot of negative comments and an outright flame war knowing how critical some users are of Stardock in general and Frogboy in particular. Perhaps I overestimated their number. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveLegg Developer Posted May 12, 2008 Developer Share Posted May 12, 2008 I only have one qualm though; apparently we are now on StarDocks servers (since Feb 2005), but in the years of 2006 and the beginning of 2007 the site was horribly, horribly slow and a lot of people did moan about that. We are on our own servers at Stardock's data center. Initially there were issues with how they had been configured, but for a while now that has been resolved. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Island Dog Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Let me just say I have been a member of Neowin far before being with Stardock, and this thread to me shows the true people both behind the scenes, and the community members that make this community one of the best. Want an ugly, eye-gouging theme for Windows? No problem! Just pay $10 to download Theme A! Or Theme B, or any other of the hundreds of poorly-design, non-maintained skins available for use with Stardock products. The premium skins are few and far between. The overwhelming majority of skins are free, and just because you don't like them doesn't mean everyone else does. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerologic Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I don't understand why people would criticize Stardock. If you don't like a product, don't use it. Simple. Neobond, Neowincasts its been a long time since the last edition. :cry: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 We are on our own servers at Stardock's data center. Initially there were issues with how they had been configured, but for a while now that has been resolved. i think the slowness is more down to cogent than the actual servers, there are times i've waited 30s for the site to load only for the bottom of the page to state <0.5s to generate the page, that is my biggest problem with the stardock/neowin partnership :p Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamhook Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 i think the slowness is more down to cogent than the actual servers, there are times i've waited 30s for the site to load only for the bottom of the page to state <0.5s to generate the page, that is my biggest problem with the stardock/neowin partnership :pIsn't that how long the server took to grab the thread content from the database, parse it through PHP, and spew it out with Apache? :p Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
p858snake Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I think that's a big part of it. In the old days, when there'd be a Stardock news post, no one cared. But then, AFTER (starting 3 years ago), every time there was a Stardock news post, a portion of those wanting to "fight the man" felt compelled to get in there and stick it to us. So even though the number of Stardock postings per month has declined since 2005, when a Stardock posting comes up, there are those who think it's part of some corporate take over and want to get in there and zing it. :) Althought i don't really have a problem with it (although have mentioned it in passing in chat) most people hate it when "stardock updates X or stardock releases X" reaches the FPN not Software FPN which causes most of the negative comments i would say. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Isn't that how long the server took to grab the thread content from the database, parse it through PHP, and spew it out with Apache? :p exactly, so what takes the other 25+ seconds which is my point :p Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Veteran Posted May 12, 2008 Veteran Share Posted May 12, 2008 Isn't that how long the server took to grab the thread content from the database, parse it through PHP, and spew it out with Apache? :p Yup, which means the problem is not with PHP or MySQL. That's the point he was trying to make, I believe. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamhook Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 exactly, so what takes the other 25+ seconds which is my point :pThe hampsters carrying the data from the server to your PC. :rofl: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aniv Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Why Frogboy..why?? I like Amphibians. Stop picking on him NOW! Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 So we get Neowin exclusive discounts now? :shiftyninja: yes....people with over 10,000 posts get a free copy of all the Stardock products :shiftyninja: Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aniv Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 How much would it cost to buy Neowin LLC ? Atleast 51% that is.. Link to comment https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/636462-stardocks-relationship-with-neowin-and-its-criticizers/page/5/#findComment-589395583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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