tuckeratlarge Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Regardless of which team I support, Mr. Hamilton and his team lied to the stewards purely to gain a place and therefore a point. This is obviously the wrong thing to do in such a high end sport. However, every single one of the drivers would do the same thing if they knew it would gain a point/place. So Hamilton bashing, a sport of which I partake, is pointless in this instance. The correct thing to do is re-instate Trulli to 3rd, Hamilton 4th and just fine the man a few thousand quid. Only F1 will be damaged if they throw out any of the top drivers. F1 is built on TV revenues and if you alienate your audience with these shenanigans then you are a fool. Same thing will happen if they ban the diffuser from the Brawn, Toyota and Williams and dock them the points they have gained thus far. The stewards let the cars race on Sunday, they cannot ban something retrospectively if they deemed it legal to race on the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlibbyFlobby Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 What I want to know is why the stewards ask the drivers what they thought happened in the hearings? All the telemetry and radio data is available for them so they can make accurate decisions. Trying to catch the drivers out is ridiculous, especially just an hour after the race has occurred. I'm just waiting for them to suspend him now they haven't ruled out "further action". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) According to pitpass The penalty is unlikely to be that bad, but then nobody expected the harshness of the penalty handed out for Spygate either. The removal from the podium is fair enough but if Lewis and/or McLaren get thrown out of the sport for the rest of the season, the Australian GP will be the first and last race that I watch this season. FIA interference in the sport is getting way out of hand Same thing will happen if they ban the diffuser from the Brawn, Toyota and Williams and dock them the points they have gained thus far. The stewards let the cars race on Sunday, they cannot ban something retrospectively if they deemed it legal to race on the day. Indeed. It has basically been confirmed that because the stewards at the race have declared the diffusers legal, the points gained before the appeal will stand. The only outcome of the appeal would be that the Diffuser would be banned from being used in the future. Personally I hope it doesn't get banned, because Ferrari being forced to do a rear-end redesign would make them uncompetitive for a few more races. Having a little muse about this, there are a few things that make no sense at all to me... To have originally applied a penalty to Trulli, the question has to be asked, if they didn't listen to the radio transmissions, what the heck did they base that decision on? Is the suggestion that McLaren may have lied and that they have been punished for it suggestive of the fact that McLaren's evidence is what they originally used to "convict" trulli... If so, despite what McLaren may or may have not have done, the question has to be asked why the hell didn't the FIA and their stewards conduct a proper investigation first time round, saving the need for this debacle. And yes, McLaren may have misrepresented their position, but is anyone REALLY surprised by that? Look around Formula 1 and tell me if any team is not going to twist things to suit their angle, it is what Formula 1 teams do to try and gain an advantage. Something about this entire situation really stinks. Edited April 2, 2009 by Frank Fontaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I don't think they would throw him out, it will almost discredit the season if you don't have the previous years champion in the race. I think it's just outlining what they could do at an extreme. This is the FIA we're talking about, they like to go to extremes when McLaren are involved. Indeed. It has basically been confirmed that because the stewards at the race have declared the diffusers legal, the points gained before the appeal will stand. The only outcome of the appeal would be that the Diffuser would be banned from being used in the future. Personally I hope it doesn't get banned, because Ferrari being forced to do a rear-end redesign would make them uncompetitive for a few more races. The points will probably stand as the status is 'legal, but subject to appeal'. If it was 'illegal, but being appealed' then they could lose the points. Either way, a few teams will need to do some redesigning and blow the whole cost cutting measures out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Agreed. I find it stupid that the FIA don't allow the ratification of parts before the start of the season... I mean the question about the diffuser came up in January, and was re-ignited when Brawn announced themselves. If the teams had a definitive answer before the start of the first GP they could have redesigned their cars in time. Once again, another procedural deficiency in the FIA's operations manual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxVisor Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 However, every single one of the drivers would do the same thing if they knew it would gain a point/place. So Hamilton bashing, a sport of which I partake, is pointless in this instance. Jarno didn't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Jarno didn't lie. Jarno didn't need to lie, because the truth was more favourable to his argument, plus there was already evidence of him going off the circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Here's another interesting article: http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3261_5133601,00.html And they raise a good point. If the FIA really wanted to prove their point, they would release the recordings of the Interview they had with Lewis and Ryan. Sorry for the double post, wouldn't let me edit my previous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Times from Free Practise 1: Interestingly, Raikkonen came into the pits with masses of white smoke coming out of his cockpit near the end of the session, was so bad he actually had to loosen the straps of his seat belt so that he could see over the smoke as he entered the pit. First impressions are that it is a Kers related problem, as the batteries are stored under the driver's seat, and that is where the smoke appeared to come from. If it is a heat related issue, that could present Ferrari with serious problems in the race depending on how difficult the Kers system would be to remove from the car (if they even can without exchanging some of the components) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentaal Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Practice #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonlang Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 raikkonen had another problem with kers at the end of fp2. it looks like he is n for another very bad year. compared to melbourne it looks a lot closer and ferrari seems to be right on pace, felipe did a very impressive longrun. renault is nowhere, so is bmw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundayx Veteran Posted April 3, 2009 Veteran Share Posted April 3, 2009 Ferrari's are back at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 The fall-out from Lewis Hamilton's exclusion from the Australian Grand Prix has led to the exit of a top McLaren official, the BBC understands. Sporting director Dave Ryan has been suspended after 35 years with McLaren. Hamilton gave stewards "deliberately misleading" evidence after Jarno Trulli was docked for passing him while the safety car was out in Melbourne. Ryan accompanied Hamilton to both of his hearings with the Formula 1 race stewards in Melbourne on Sunday. Team principal Martin Whitmarsh said: "In my 20-odd years working for McLaren, I doubt if I've met a more dedicated individual than Davey. He's been an integral part of McLaren since 1974 and has played a crucial role in the team's many world championship successes since that time. "However, his role in the events of last Sunday, particularly his dealings with the FIA stewards, has caused serious repercussions for the team, for which we apologise. Therefore, I suspended him this morning and he has accepted this." More to follow. Source It seems Lewis had some inappropriate "guidance" when talking to the stewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubar Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 you know what bugs me more than anything, the steward themselfs for taking the points away from truli in the 1st place giving him a 25 second penalty and giving lewis third place, then they change their minds a day before practise is due to start in sepang, these idiots need to get their house in order and take all the evidence there and then , they knew the radio conversation they saw the footage yet they still seem to run around like clueless idiots and fart around with the points table.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentaal Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 they knew the radio conversation From what I've read, McLaren didn't make their radio conversation records available in the first hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Pit to Car radio traffic is no longer allowed to be encrypted once the cars are on the track, so the FIA always had it available, from what I can gather the FIA just chose not to use it in their original investigation. As for the practise sessions... I would guess Brawn are sandbagging somewhat as they wern't at the top in melbourne either in practise. Ferrari's pace does in general seem a lot better but the reliability glitches that keep creeping in are going to worry them seriously, and it has gotten to a point now where I pretty much expect one of them do drop out of the race. If their KERS system can't cope with the hear for 15-20 laps of practise there's no way its ever going to hold up over a race distance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
san.W10 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Barrichello to get five-place grid penaly Rubens Barrichello will be given a five-place grid penalty at the Malaysian Grand Prix after needing a gearbox change following Friday's practice.The Brazilian, who finished second in the Australian Grand Prix last weekend, did not have any apparent problems during practice, but his Brawn GP team has decided a gearbox change was necessary ahead of tomorrow's sessions. As a result of the change, Barrichello will get a grid penalty because gearboxes must last for four grand prix weekends. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74204 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Unfortunate for him, but I believe he will have enough speed to still get onto the podium. As for the McLaren penalty... Having seen the way the team have reacted, I can hold my hands up and say that the penalty was justified. What Dave Ryan was thinking, heaven only knows but he has not only damaged his own reputation, but by proxy, lewis' as well. Looking at Lewis during his apology it was obviously heartfelt and he looked rather distressed whilst he was making it, and I feel sorry for him, as I feel that the influence of Ryan was what made him put the false testimony to the stewards, the fact he said in a press interview that he did let trulli past tells me that he didn't go in with the intention of cheating and misleading the stewards. As a McLaren fan though, all I can say is that I am thoroughly disappointed in Dave Ryan's behaviour, and I hope Lewis and the team recover from the immense damage this debacle has done them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
san.W10 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 McLaren could face further sanctions The FIA has not ruled out taking further action against McLaren in the wake of Lewis Hamilton's disqualification from the Australian Grand Prix.The Briton was excluded from the Melbourne race after the stewards deemed he and his McLaren team had 'deliberately misled' them about a radio conversation that took place after he had passed Toyota driver Jarno Trulli behind the safety car. Following McLaren's decision to suspend its sporting director Dave Ryan, and Hamilton's emotional public apology to the FIA stewards and his fans for what he called a 'huge mistake', the FIA has indicated that it will review all the evidence before deciding whether to refer the matter to the World Motor Sport Council. The sport's governing body also recognised the efforts at which the world champion had gone to explain himself, hinting that any further sanctions might be focused on the team's role in the incident, rather than the driver's. "We recognise Lewis's efforts to set the record straight today," said an FIA spokesman. "It would appear that he was put in an impossible position. "We are now awaiting reports from the FIA observer and stewards before consideration can be given to further investigation of the team's conduct. "We cannot rule out the matter being referred to the World Council at this stage." When asked during his press conference at Sepang if he was concerned about the possibility of further action being taken against him and McLaren by the FIA, Hamilton said: "I am sure the FIA will act accordingly and in the right way. I don't know what else is going to happen in the future. "For me now, I have to focus on the race and try to move forward from this, learn from it and grow." If the matter is referred to the WMSC, McLaren could face a significant fine or even exclusion from races or the championship. McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh said today that he felt 'deep regret' at the events of the past week, adding that the team wanted 'come clean' on its side of the story. "It has become clear from discussions with Dave [Ryan] last night and through into this morning that during the stewards meeting after the Australian Grand Prix, he was not entirely full and truthful in the answers he gave the stewards," said Whitmarsh. "Consequently we had no alternative today other than to suspend him. As you can imagine, it is a very sad day for the team. We have got to deal with this weekend. We have to look in a bit more detail all of the events that surrounded it." http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74214 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealMySoda Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I watch the BBC pre-Malaysia show last night and to be honest, if Hamilton was misguided then OK. But he knew what he was saying and he knew he was lying. So IMO he's just as bad as the Dave Ryan. I did enjoy the quote "I'm not a liar" that was on BBC for a while, made me chuckle. As for what side of the grass I lie on. I've been a Barrichello fan for a long long time, however when I followed f1 religiously he was with Ferrari so that is whom I cheer (unless it's like last weekend of course :p ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxVisor Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 What the hell were McClaren doing to those tyres in practice. - looked dodgy. You would think with all thats gone on they would be trying to keep a low profile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I watch the BBC pre-Malaysia show last night and to be honest, if Hamilton was misguided then OK. But he knew what he was saying and he knew he was lying. So IMO he's just as bad as the Dave Ryan. I did enjoy the quote "I'm not a liar" that was on BBC for a while, made me chuckle. I think Hamilton went with the 30 years+ experience trumps 2 years experience. If you have someone as experienced and respected as Dave Ryan and you're still relatively new you'd probably go along with what he said. From what I can tell Dave Ryan realised they messed up in getting Hamilton to let Trulli past and wanted to correct it (ie get Hamilton back to 3rd). Whether or not Hamilton wanted to lie or how much persuading he needed is something we'll never know unless one of the two comes out and says so. As for Malaysia quali, looks like rain soon (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unimatrix Xero Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 whoo!!! Button on pole!! brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyJordan Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Nice one, Button. Although only by a tenth of a second! Hopefully if we don't encounter the incidents of Australia again, we're gonna see a very very close race tomorrow! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalsoft Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Great result for Button once again! Rather surprised by the results though, especially after testing results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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