I didn't pull trigger....

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

I'll cool that you didn't shoot for the reasons mentioned but now don't understand why you have the concealed carry permit?

[MikeChipshop Member]

If you had the right to kill them then fair play! I would have shot to injure otherwise why were you carrying a gun anyway?

I guess for us in the UK it does seem weird to be able to carry a gun... but over in the US it's not out of the ordinary in any way.

[BGM]

you could have shot them in the knee cap...

in any case it was probably smart not to start firing around fuel!!

[acnpt]

I guess for us in the UK it does seem weird to be able to carry a gun... but over in the US it's not out of the ordinary in any way.

I don't think many people carry guns, even less in the coasts.

Although I'm not American, so how would I know lol.

Glad you didn't shoot. I'd hate to have killed someone because they were "too drunk".

[rehcamretsnef]

Is it unnerving to anyone else that 95% of these replies are geared towards "Kudos for curling up into a ball and surviving the confrontation! thatll show them!!" Lets hope none of you do that twitter stuff and mention where youre going for the night. I'm sure someone from here lives nearby and will follow you around town and rob you at any chance he gets hahah. Not like you'd do anything about it :rolleyes: This world is obviously screwed hahaha

[markwolfe Veteran]

Quit carrying a gun if you aren't going to use it.

Flashing it to impress was dumb.

Good on you for not shooting, but everything you did up to that point was stupid.

[Phenom II]

IMO, Pulling the trigger is a LAST resort, you had not got to that part of the situation where there was no choice left, the beating was not at a stage where killing the other person was all you had left available to you, it shows you value life and will do anything to preserve it, even take a beating.

I think if it came down to it, where it was the final resort and you had no choice but to kill or be killed, you would have done it, who wouldnt, its natual instinct to survive

In the future, maybe think about firing off a warning shot to show your serious over their heads, if that fails, one in the foot / leg will most likely stop anyone

I would be proud of myself if I were you, when those guys sober up they will hopefully realise how lucky they were not to be dead

[HawkMan]

Now they are free to do this to someone else, should have shot them. Someone else death who is entirely innocent could be on your conscience now.

No it's not. it's on the guys who act like animals. Not the guy who chooses not to harm others.

on top of that, they where several people, if he'd shot one, and they where drunk and agitated. DO you really think they'd get scared and run away, especially if they're gangbangers. No they'd jump him like rabid dogs. and he'd be left with no choice but to shoot to kill and ultimately be over manned by superior numbers and close quarters.

The only better options he had was to either get right back in the car, sty in the gas station, or get back in when he saw they where coming for him again.

and for the earlier reply, no, he IS a better person for not having fired. It's shows he's a human, and not a psychopath at that.

[rehcamretsnef]

No it's not. it's on the guys who act like animals. Not the guy who chooses not to harm others.

on top of that, they where several people, if he'd shot one, and they where drunk and agitated. DO you really think they'd get scared and run away, especially if they're gangbangers. No they'd jump him like rabid dogs. and he'd be left with no choice but to shoot to kill and ultimately be over manned by superior numbers and close quarters.

The only better options he had was to either get right back in the car, sty in the gas station, or get back in when he saw they where coming for him again.

and for the earlier reply, no, he IS a better person for not having fired. It's shows he's a human, and not a psychopath at that.

meh, if someones carrying a pistol, im sure they'd have the ability to fire off 4 quick rounds in just a few seconds to nuetralize them all. I'd give em to 5 feet, and approaching me in a threatening fashion before i did anything, while backing away and telling em to leave me alone, then drawing. if i waited until i was getting punched in the face, kicked in the gut/etc, yea, good luck actually managing to fire a round after that point. If you had the gun drawn before you were attacked and waited that long, its probably gonna be gone/stolen/used to hold up your own robbery. drawing beforehand and being ready to use it can at least cause a stalemate, or end the situation, but i'd think reaching for the gun while in a disadvantaged position would end badly. especially if they have their own, cuz at that point they're gonna expect to get shot. Goodbye you.

And i wouldnt recommend a warning shot. nowadays even if it makes em go away, look forward to charges being placed for discharging a firearm wrecklessly in a residential area or something. If youre gonna shoot, make sure the bullet ends up in something soft.

[ncoday]

I have to say major kudos to you for not shooting, and keeping a level head and doing the right thing. In a situation like that, if you ever do come round to needing to shoot, don't aim to kill but aim maim. If that doesn't stop them, then I'd say aim to kill - however that's very unlikely.

This is probably one of the worst advice I can think of. It is damn near impossible to just maim. This is real-life, not TV fantasy land where you can hit just a knee or elbow.

When adrenaline is pumping, you have to aim at what you can accurately hit and that is the chest, not likely to just maim

[Dick Montage]

Well done on not shooting, it was in some ways the "right" thing to do.

In reality, you shoot one, the rest would have probably bolted, but you never know.

But do you REALLY want to be responsible for shooting someone?

Personal thing, but if it saved my life - yes...

[Konstanov]

No it's not. it's on the guys who act like animals. Not the guy who chooses not to harm others.

You choose to let an animal live instead of putting it down, and you take responsibility for that animal's actions until it is finally put down. Until his attackers are behind bars or dead, everything they do is on his conscience.

He could have warned them, and if after that point they choose to proceed with their actions the shoulder is a large enough and damaging enough target to shoot. A gunshot to the shoulder will also wound them enough to the point where they can be easily subdued until law enforcement arrives.

Inaction is foolish, and often deadly.

[Arkaic]

At the end of the day, pulling the trigger makes you no better then they are - possibly even a little worse. You did the right thing, you should feel proud of yourself!

Good to see you well and posting dude that's all it matters.

I don't quite know what to say, but you have my utmost respect for not firing. It's a shame that the police will most likely be unable to catch these guys that mindlessly attacked you, but I don't think killing one of them would have been the right thing to do.

I have to say major kudos to you for not shooting, and keeping a level head and doing the right thing. In a situation like that, if you ever do come round to needing to shoot, don't aim to kill but aim maim. If that doesn't stop them, then I'd say aim to kill - however that's very unlikely.

I can't imagine what you must have had to go through, but kudos for not firing.

+1 for the above's

how come you had a gun on you?

his reason. They don't issue carrying card's for the hell of it.

The best thing would have been to get right back into your car and leave immediately after the first confrontation.

Showing a weapon, will usually increase other people's adrenaline and angering them, causing them to act irrationally. This being a group of people, that irrationality was amplified, causing more trouble.

You could have either :

A) Shot the person. However this would probably completely changed your life because if your name was ever publicly connected to it, you would most likely have to change your identity, move and and not have the life you have right now anymore. That or of the "Law" determined you used excessive force (ie: they were unarmed?) you may have gone to jail.

B) Not shoot like you did, and who knows what may have happened if that guy didn't help. Hell even by him helping, he put his life at risk.

I agree, but still you are alive.

You didn't shoot and that's something to be proud of! Only problem for me is i'm not sure i wouldn't have shot if i was in the same circumstances.

Now they are free to do this to someone else, should have shot them. Someone else death who is entirely innocent could be on your conscience now.

Not up to him to defends others; being a vigilante is worse. I was nearly run down once, should I find the ****** who nearly succeded and go run him down so he doesn't do it another time? (won't happen but its the point, plus it was me he had beef with.) That's what the police are for. pray to god no one else is but we can't run around because we want to "protect" somebody else or settle a "fight".

[christracy]

I would have shot them. The right thing to do is protect yourself and taking a beating while noble could have cost you your life. I think the guy that came in the store was sizing you up to see if you would use the gun if pressed. In hindsight you should have told that one to get out of your face and sent a message if they they are there when you come back out and start again that they have been warned. He may have come across as a good kid but where was he when the others came back after you?

[Arkaic]

meh, if someones carrying a pistol, im sure they'd have the ability to fire off 4 quick rounds in just a few seconds to nuetralize them all. I'd give em to 5 feet, and approaching me in a threatening fashion before i did anything, while backing away and telling em to leave me alone, then drawing. if i waited until i was getting punched in the face, kicked in the gut/etc, yea, good luck actually managing to fire a round after that point. If you had the gun drawn before you were attacked and waited that long, its probably gonna be gone/stolen/used to hold up your own robbery. drawing beforehand and being ready to use it can at least cause a stalemate, or end the situation, but i'd think reaching for the gun while in a disadvantaged position would end badly. especially if they have their own, cuz at that point they're gonna expect to get shot. Goodbye you.

And i wouldnt recommend a warning shot. nowadays even if it makes em go away, look forward to charges being placed for discharging a firearm wrecklessly in a residential area or something. If youre gonna shoot, make sure the bullet ends up in something soft.

sadly true

This is probably one of the worst advice I can think of. It is damn near impossible to just maim. This is real-life, not TV fantasy land where you can hit just a knee or elbow.

When adrenaline is pumping, you have to aim at what you can accurately hit and that is the chest, not likely to just maim

true

Well done on not shooting, it was in some ways the "right" thing to do.

In reality, you shoot one, the rest would have probably bolted, but you never know.

But do you REALLY want to be responsible for shooting someone?

Personal thing, but if it saved my life - yes...

Yes, as long as you think (hopefully you can think fast and make quick rational decisions) and ralize your actions have consequences including potential jail time.

You choose to let an animal live instead of putting it down, and you take responsibility for that animal's actions until it is finally put down. Until his attackers are behind bars or dead, everything they do is on his conscience.

Animals are assumed not responsible to their actions as they are assumed property, hence they are "owned".

[Konstanov]

Animals are assumed not responsible to their actions as they are assumed property, hence they are "owned".

If my dog attacks a human, euthanasia is the only course of action after that attack. This has been the course of actions for decades, and in a civilized society, barbarians should be treated no better than mongrel dogs.

[Arkaic]

I would have shot them. The right thing to do is protect yourself and taking a beating while noble could have cost you your life. I think the guy that came in the store was sizing you up to see if you would use the gun if pressed.??In hindsight you should have told that one to get out of your face and sent a message if they they are there when you come back out and start again that they have been warned. He may have come across as a good kid but where was he when the others came back after you?

Right thing? Perhaps to take a beating but would you shoot before being murdered and just lay down and be murdered, "Here please shoot me,shank me, or whatever"? In all honesty I wouldn't I would shoot as my last alternative, I admit it I'm scared of taking another person's life, but like hell I'm gonna lay down and get beat to death and leave my family and friends to lose me and all that. Perhaps it is selfish but I live for them because I love them.

If my dog attacks a human, euthanasia is the only course of action after that attack. This has been the course of actions for decades, and in a civilized society, barbarians should be treated no better than mongrel dogs.

Yes, but the vet puts it down, not a directly related individual like yourself. Same reason we have police! I agree with the equality of life whether its human or beast; however, is it fair to have your dog kill another dog rather viciously and there for people to watch? Even if not it's also illegal. But above that who is the true barbarian, the man who beats a man to death or the man who doesn't confront his enemy just shoots. Vigilantism is wrong!

[Sethos]

I would have pulled the trigger in a heartbeat, that's for sure.

[Konstanov]

Yes, but the vet puts it down, not a directly related individual like yourself. Same reason we have police! I agree with the equality of life whether its human or beast; however, is it fair to have your dog kill another dog rather viciously and there for people to watch? Even if not it's also illegal. But above that who is the true barbarian, the man who beats a man to death or the man who doesn't confront his enemy just shoots. Vigilantism is wrong!

When did I ever declare he should not confront his attackers. I have said that a verbal warning that if provoked, that he would shoot them. If they choose to further the action, out of foolish pride and get themselves shot, that is on their head, not mind for simply action on my warning. If he had any reason to fear for his life at any point in this altercation, then it was his right to defend his own life with the necessary means. If you can shoot them in the shoulder, which any trained rationally thinking shooter could at such a distance, than that should be the proper course of action. However if this is not the case, if you cannot for whatever reason shoot to wound, whether in the shoulder or an equally damaging non-lethal area that could be attacked, then you have to aim for the largest lethal area, being center-mass. His is not to question philosophical dogma when fighting for his life, his is only to act on his own survival.

Sure nobility will get you held in high regard, but it would also mean he is dead and held in high regard. In all honesty, I think he would rather be alive to see his family with a little shame in his heart, than never see his family again just to be noble. Force of action was the proper course.

[a1ien]

Wow, you’re lucky Washington will give you a CCW no problems, here in CA I’m probably never going to get one. That’s a real unique situation, you can learn a lot about yourself from this one while people like me so far only work with the theoretical, since naturally we all hope to avoid confrontations like the one you had to experience.

For example, if you want to avoid killing in the heat of it, you could carry a 32 cal with FMJ ammo – that’s not likley to kill without a headshot.

It sounds like you feel this too, but basically those thugs now feel they can take on a man with a gun, and not only that but they may consider arming themselves too. Considering their attitude, I think this will be a anti-learning experience for them. If they had brains and would learn from what happened, then they would not have behaved like this is the first place. No, only a few bullets would have taught them a life lesson though.

I can’t laud for you not shooting and I’m learning about the foolishness of brandishing w/o firing form this too. We can all learn. I do laud you if your gun was a 45 cal with hollow points that would have killed them each with one shot :p

When I UOC in CA (Unloaded Open Carry, ammo clip on the belt) I have a 9mm usually with FMJ ammo. I usually only carry when in remote areas for telescope observations.

Anyways live and learn, +1 rep.

And MarkJensen, "quit carrying a gun if you're not going to use it". You're so naive. Have you ever had to immediately consider taking the life of another citizen, with very deadly force? I don't think so. Are you a sysadmin or something? OP has had an experience and he learned something about himself.

Edit: Here's a link to another recent gas station attack, in this one he did what he did to protect his babies: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/39598.html

[markwolfe Veteran]

And MarkJensen, "quit carrying a gun if you're not going to use it". You're so naive. Have you ever had to immediately consider taking the life of another citizen, with very deadly force? I don't think so. Are you a sysadmin or something? OP has had an experience and he learned something about himself.

Me? A sysadmin? No. I used to be a volunteer moderator of this site, but other than that, I am just a member here.

However, I am an employee of a Smith & Wesson company. ;)

I would like to discuss where you seem to think that his behavior of flashing a gun to intimidate is a good idea. Nothing more than overly-macho chest thumping that escalates the situation. As you saw.

There is a reason you are taught to only pull a gun if you fully intend to do the next step. He's very lucky he wasn't shot with his own friggin gun.

[SyntaxError]

To the OP: you should've pulled the trigger. Better them than you. Besides, what's the point of carrying a weapon, concealed or not, when you won't defend yourself with it? A few shots fired into the air would probably have been enough to scare them off. Just because you carry a gun, doesn't mean you have to hurt or kill anyone.

Sounds like you need to do some soul searching and figure out what's more important: defending yourself, or letting some @ssholes hurt or even kill you.

You got lucky as hell. Are you willing to take that chance the next time?

[Nagisan]

To the OP: you should've pulled the trigger. Better them than you. Besides, what's the point of carrying a weapon, concealed or not, when you won't defend yourself with it? A few shots fired into the air would probably have been enough to scare them off. Just because you carry a gun, doesn't mean you have to hurt or kill anyone.

Sounds like you need to do some soul searching and figure out what's more important: defending yourself, or letting some @ssholes hurt or even kill you.

You got lucky as hell. Are you willing to take that chance the next time?

Firing a shot into the air can be extremely dangerous. You can end up killing a perfectly innocent person by doing so. If anything, fire it into the ground (that is, grass/dirt, not solid concrete).

Though I have no faced any similar situations myself, I feel I would have been more than willing to actually fire. I do not wish to hurt/kill anyone, but I would do so in a heartbeat if I feel my life is threatened.

At the very least I would have attempted to non-fatally injure them if I felt they were out to harm me (before they got close enough to attack me, that is). Once they see that you are willing to fire at them, they are likely going to back down.

[mokthraka]

I agree....I should have shot...I will never again let this happen to me like this....I was in my rights, being attacked.....and I couldn't do it....Next time if their is one....I will not let myself be a victim.

dont worry you couldnt. people *say* they could if they where in a situation like you, but 90% they couldnt. glad to see you made it out okay

I don't think many people carry guns, even less in the coasts.

Although I'm not American, so how would I know lol.

Glad you didn't shoot. I'd hate to have killed someone because they were "too drunk".

we have quite a few people with CC permits here. Im guessing more people carry legally anymore then illegally. unless your in cali. god gun laws there are strict

[Tech Star]

Kudos for not firing at the people, but you should have shot a warning shot in the ground. If you let them know you are willing to shoot then they wouldn't have done anything.